:iagree::iagree:

Unless that kid is the type who is highly motivated and willing & able to press forward through the material to get him there. You know, the kid who lives & breathes math and WANTS to keep going in the book, doing multiple lessons a day, grasping concepts quickly, and doesn't want to stop for summer break. (Okay, I don't know any kids like this...but I've met a few grown-ups who did this as youth...so I know they are out there!). I'm not saying I would encourage MY children to do this...even if I had one who wanted to. I'm not saying I believe this is the best way or worst way to do it. But if I had a child like that...and he wanted to fly...and he COULD...then I could see the possibility. I have a friend (who happens to have a dh who graduated hs at 15) whose main goal is to have her kids be ahead of everybody else. She doesn't care WHERE they are or if that is the best for them in the long run...she only cares that her dd's math level is higher than anybody else she knows of the same age. Okay...THESE are the kinds of situations where I tend to think, Hmm...what is really going on? However, I have to be careful not to judge her too harshly, because for all I know her dd is the type who lives & breathes math and WANTS to dig in deeper and go faster because she has this incredible thirst of math to quench. So I've decided it's really none of my business and I go on my merry way. :D (And I make sure she knows her kids are way ahead of mine!)

I guess my issue with the "Let them be kids" camp is not so much that I disagree, but that I think it's neglecting to consider/accept the possibilities/realities of those kids who truly are a little bit different. Just because my son might want to read all about quantum physics and might be fascinated with all things related to Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein...doesn't mean I'm forcing him to sit and study all day without allowing him to just be a kid...nor does it mean he doesn't jump on the trampoline with friends for hours a day or dig in the dirt with his army men. If my dd2 loves the alphabet and wants to point out the letters, string letters together & sound out the words...should I take away the letters and not allow her to do so...since that's not what I think a two-year-old kid should be doing? Or should I play with her, following her lead, and guide her in a fun way? (Now if my dd2 was screaming, while I held her in my lap and yelled, "B...buh...ball," that's entirely different.) Sure, let them be kids...but challenge their minds, stretch their imaginations, provide that opportunity to learn & grow. Have high expectations for those who don't often have to stretch or overcome challenges. For some, those opportunities might have to move a little faster or dig a little deeper than what one might think possible...but I believe ALL children deserve to be challenged & progressing at whatever level necessary.

:iagree:

I guess a lot of it depends on your definition of 'gifted.' That National Association of Gifted Children website states: "Students, children, or youth who give evidence of high achievement capability in areas such as intellectual, creative, artistic, or leadership capacity, or in specific academic fields, and who need services and activities not ordinarily provided by the school in order to fully develop those capabilities." If anyone is associated with the public school system, the 'label' is needed in order to acquire special services or accommodations. It is a valid reason for someone to homeschool...perhaps a frequent one, as many ps systems are not addressing these students' needs adequately or at all. In other realms of gifted education, there are varying terms to define varying degrees of 'giftedness'--talented, gifted, highly gifted, profoundly gifted. An excellent analogy of this is found in the article, "Is It A Cheetah?" by Stephanie Tolan (http://www.sengifted.org/articles_learning/Tolan_IsItACheetah.shtml). I highly recommend reading this. Personally, I do think the term 'gifted' may be overused and may be mostly referring to those who are 'talented' in one or more areas. However, these are the students that need the label in order to receive special services within the ps system. Yet the nationally recognized term to describe these students IS 'gifted'. But the fact that the term is overused does not negate the fact that there ARE some of us out here with kids who ARE 'gifted' and need to figure out the best way to meet their needs. This forum is a place to come and ask questions and learn from others who have BTDT. Many of us don't have anyone else to talk to about this issue. We're not the ones who write about math & reading levels in the family Christmas newsletter. We're not the ones who openly talk about how much better our kid is than that one over there at the park or who stand our two-year-old up at playgroup & have her recite the Pledge of Allegiance in Russian. (But we find that in so many ways, don't we? Athletics, music, behavior, morals, etc...) Ime, many parents of gifted students go to great lengths to keep it from others...trying to help their child feel 'normal' and knowing that in many ways they never will be. There is a whole other side to giftedness that many don't know about--the whole social/emotional side to it that is quite often NOT enjoyable. :D And in most cases, we want our students to face challenges that help them to stretch & grow. Sometimes this needs to be done with acceleration, sometimes it needs to be enrichment, sometimes it needs to be thinking outside the box. (As far as the pp's question about similarities between autism/giftedness, I think there ARE some similarities. A few years ago I sat through a workshop on autism with a friend. I was AMAZED at how many of the experiences/examples I could relate to.)

My ds7 loves legos, remote control cars, snap circuits, matchbox/race track sets, plasma car, trying to roller-blade, army guys w/blocks to build forts & such. He also loves to build contraptions or inventions...free use of masking tape, duct tape, string, cardboard tubes...and he's in heaven. I've occasionally gotten some books at the library with ideas to build things from recycled items and he likes to do that sort of thing. He's happy with dirt, shovels, ice, magnets, food coloring...any scientific exploring he can do...as long as it makes a mess. :D Forgot to mention paper airplanes...there are some great books out there!

I'd take the Wii remotes with me on my walk. I'd make sure he knows exactly what you expect him to have completed by a specific time. I'd perhaps limit screen time to Fri, Sat, Sun--even have him earn minutes (all work completed by certain time = 30 minutes screen time on those days).

Our piggies poop A LOT more than I ever dreamed possible. It's my kids' jobs to scoop it up everyday--as they were the ones wanting a pet in the first place. Yesterday we were changing the cage out (first time I was helping with the process) & I found some of the poop on the floor (near the cage)...I freaked. You can't even hold them without them pooping. They are kinda cute, but if the kids ever balk at their taking care of the piggies, they are outta here! (free to the next caller...) I have had fun researching about them, finding what foods to feed, fixing up the cage, etc...but the poop takes all the fun out of it for me. I just feel like they are dirty. One day we saw our little Patches EAT his poop. Umm, since that moment, I haven't cared much for them. (My kids love them...and we care for them properly, but I'm not very involved except for reminders). In many ways I think, man, we should have just gotten a dog. We'd have to feed him, scoop poop, care for them, etc...but they are a lot more loveable and playful. But then I think of the vet bills, how expensive food is, etc. Good luck in your decision! Give us a few weeks and maybe you can have ours! :001_smile:

If you want to figure out a sequence, you might want to refer to other language programs to get an idea. This is how I remember my 6th grade Spanish class going, too...that's why I suggest you look at a book for another language and follow their sequence of categories. Signing Time is great! Their website has some ideas for instruction, too. I think the suggestion to just start signing as you speak is fantastic. I'd also add that signing the words to songs works well with my kids. Good luck & have fun!

Is there something special that she's been wanting to do? For example, my dd10 is 'dying' to get her ears pierced...so that was the first thing that came to my mind...allowing her to do something like that. Something that might be a little more grown up than she usually has been allowed to do. What a lucky mom you are to have such a sweet daughter!

Yes, I'm feeling the same way about grammar & writing instruction. I've decided Rod & Staff English covers both and am thinking about purchasing it. Best wishes...

Are you pulling dd out right now to finish the rest of 6th grade at home? And plan to homeschool 7th & 8th? And then plan to enter the charter school you mentioned? Just want to make sure I understood your situation before I piped in with my 2 cents. :001_smile: We pulled ds out of 6th grade last year and finished the year out homeschooling. Your description of your dd--honor student with little effort--described my ds, too. First of all, is there any curriculum the current school is using that you'd want to continue for the rest of the year? What curriculum does the school use for 9th grade that you'd want your dd to be ready for? I'd look at those two questions first--they might help you figure out where you are currently and see where it is you want to move to. If a particular curriculum is currently 'working' and is a possibility, it might be easiest to just continue with that for now while you make plans for the next year. For 6th grade, this is what we did for the rest of that year: Math--Saxon Algebra 1 (using in school previously) Writing--Jump In (Apologia) Grammar--Shurley English 6 (using in school previously) Vocabulary--Vocabulary with Classical Roots Logic--Mindbenders History--we followed the guidelines in his previous school to cover the topics for 6th grade in the Core Knowledge Sequence; but we read lots of historical fiction, used the Kingfisher World History, used SOTW books. Ds wrote narrations, 5 paragraph essays, and created newspaper reports to demonstrate his understanding. Science--same as history; did lots of fun hands-on experiments from books from the library My opinion on Saxon Algebra 1--while the program is very repetitive & thorough, I felt like there wasn't enough practice on the brand new concept...instead so much time was spent doing an assignment reviewing everything up to that point. It worked best for us if we spent time on the lesson, did 10-15 problems of that new concept, and only did odds/evens of the lesson practice. (Only problem is the book didn't provide those 10-15 problems to practice the new concept...which would be my biggest complaint with the program) Also, as you mentioned math may not be the strongest area, one possibility is to purchase Life of Fred to go through before starting algebra. In fact, if I were you I'd consider doing Life of Fred fractions, decimals, and pre-algebra NOW and then starting with the algebra at the beginning of 7th grade. (Life of Fred is a math program that is written more like a story--my kids read it for fun!) Has your dd used Shurley English before? I think it's a great program and does it's job, but it felt a little more teacher intensive than I had anticipated. If ds hadn't been using it for years in his school, I would have had a harder time doing it. Looking back, I wish we had gone with something a little more independent. I have heard good things about Rod & Staff English and Analytical Grammar, so you might want to look into those. IEW scared me, too. Mostly the expense, but also how involved it was. And as we were just starting out, I was afraid I'd get too overwhelmed. I felt like Jump In was a terrific way to start on our journey--it's a workbook type of program, writing directly to the student. I just kind of sat along for the ride and gave suggestions here & there. Ds loved it. Most of what you listed as curriculum choices have been talked about in a positive light on this forum. It is hard to make a choice--there are so many curriculums spoken of here and you'll find people who love it AND hate it for each! I'd find myself leaning toward one writing program, then I'd read a new comment on the forum about a different one...and I'd change my mind. I guess the key is figuring out what it is you want to have covered, looking at the learning style of dd, figuring out how much you can reasonably do, and finding it at a reasonable price. :D No problem, right? Good luck! Hopefully you'll get lots of feedback here!

I don't know about those two programs, but wanted to mention Jump In. We had great success with this last year in 6th grade.

My understanding was that SWB discouraged creative writing with young children because they don't yet have the skills to do so. Somewhere on this site, I read her article about the process of writing that explained it so well. For young children learning to write, doing creative writing (or even journaling) is challenging because they have to 1) think of WHAT to say AND 2) think of HOW to get it on paper. Reading selections and using narration is her suggestion to teach the HOW to get it down--rather than focusing on coming up with the original ideas at the same time. This was a huge AHA! moment for me...as I hadn't really thought of the process as multi-faceted. And to this day it remains one of the most important things I learned from TWTM. I personally think that after the ability to write narrations, it is important to teach the process of creative writing--brainstorming, parts of a story, character development, plot, etc. Some students will be more naturally inclined to do this type of writing, others not so much. But I think it's an important step or foundation to at least expose our children to such.

For us, we started with a basic structure--kind of the absolutes that needed to get done (math, grammar, writing)...and did a lot of fun things in the afternoon. Part of our reason was to help ds see the benefits of homeschooling and how awesome it could be. As the weeks went by, we added the other parts to our plan in...history, science, logic, etc. In about a month we were up to where we wanted to be as far as our schedule & curriculum was concerned. So we didn't start Day 1 with EVERYTHING in a set schedule minute by minute...but we did work up to our ideal gradually. Then, of course, we tweaked many things, too! But especially that first month, we piled on all of the great things that ds was excited about. Wii Outdoor Challenge for PE, Mark Kistler online art lessons, Building Bridges K'Nex kit for science, Memoir 44 for history, read alouds that he was excited about, afternoon play-dates with other homeschooling friends, trips to the museum, etc. I agree with a previous poster that I was worried about deschooling & doing very little for fear that we wouldn't be able to motivate ds to do much afterwards. But I suppose it all depends on each specific situation, student, parent philosophy, etc.

Just noticed you are from eastern Iowa...we lived in Iowa City for about 8 1/2 years and loved it there! :001_smile: Pretty country...

It will come. My 2 1/2 year old counts 1-2-3 for everything...no matter how many there are. :) As you specifically asked for ideas, I'd say to continue to count out things in a fun way...you could try a number of the day (1-5) and play with that number all day: paint a huge number 3, read the 3 Little Pigs, count goldfish into piles of 3, go on a '3' Hunt with a magnifying glass try to find the numeral three in books or boxes of cereal, come up with a rhyme for that number (1-2-3, I see me! while looking in a mirror), etc. Write several numerals on the driveway with chalk & have her jump on the one you call out. For my kids, it has helped to count to a scale of music notes... As for preschool songs--if it's important to you that she learn to sing one, try to take it apart and learn a little at a time. Just one phrase--sing it several times a day...sing part of the phrase and let her sing the last word.

Sure, we're going to have differing opinions...but the OP asked what I thought a 3 year old should know...and so I responded. :)

I typically expect a 3 year old to know: shapes colors ABC letters (names) numbers (counting to 10) animals & their sounds members of a family directional words (up, down, in, out, top, bottom...) size words (big, small, tall, short, fat, thin...) Of course, every child is different...but in our family, our kids have known these things as 3 year olds. Some as 2 year olds...but definitely before they are four. I don't follow a specific plan to teach them these things--as others have mentioned, most of them do happen naturally as we go about family life. I do make it a point to work on some of them occasionally--such as playing with the counting bears & sorting them by color together; lining them up in colors; counting how many. I'll take the bears and a box and talk about where they are--is the blue bear on top of the box? No, it is next to the box, etc. I do lots of fun activities with the letters as soon as my kids are interested in them. Also I make sure to read lots of picture books and talk about everything with them...lots of word books and abc books. I've recently purchased the "What Your Preschooler Needs to Know" book and find it to be a fabulous resource. I love that it has stories & songs that are perfect for this age--all together and ready for read-alouds. You might take a glance at that and see what they have for suggestions.

It would be great to find a huge book with lots of ideas, wouldn't it? I'd buy something like that in a heartbeat. Maybe my ds12 will make one that we can sell to pay for college! I find the Creator sets to be the best kind to buy. The ones to build various different things with the set--rather than only one thing (such as themed sets for Star WArs, Harry Potter, etc). They are more generic within a category--we have bugs, robots, planes, vehicles, etc.

My ds12's favorite series right now is Ranger's Apprentice...and my dh and I have both gotten into them, too! Others: Percy Jackson series Once Upon a Marigold (dd10's favorite) Shannon Hale books (Princess Academy, Goose Girl, others) Peter & the Star-catchers Eragon

I would also be frustrated if I were in your situation. My children attend a charter school--this is the fifth year since it opened. Lots of things were first advertised...lots of great things, I'd say. We were very impressed with the original plan. Even after 5 years, the original plan has not been completely implemented. The ideals are there...the school board WANTS it to be such...the principal TRIES to get the teachers to do x, y, z...and yet we are still not there. Each year has been a little bit better...moving in the right direction...and that is why we are sticking around. Personally, I think it's a problem with teachers & how they are trained at local universities (which is where most of our hires come from)(and I've got a teaching degree from one, too...so I'm familiar with the program). For the most part, our teachers are trained to teach at a public school with typical curriculum...and it's almost a battle to get some of them to 'think outside the box' or do anything that goes against this. So I guess I have a few comments for you: 1-Know that when a charter school is first starting out, things don't always go according to plan 2-The fact that they 'advertised' this curriculum & it is the reason you are there would be enough to justify being a pushy parent & doing all that you can to make it happen...if it were me, I'd never let up if it was important to me. Is there a way that YOU can help to improve things? I think it's great that you lent your DVD's and have offered help. Can you perhaps offer to take a group of students from your child's class & teach them? 3-Is it worth it to you (in other areas) to keep your kids there or do you need to make alternate plans? Can you do partial enrollment & NOT have them take writing through the school? (Especially as it doesn't seem they'll get their act together for this year to count for much...as far as writing is concerned)

:grouphug: I can relate to a lot of the feelings you shared. I also struggle with my ds12 in many ways. It is SO hard...so emotionally exhausting. Recently I have felt impressed that it all comes down to LOVE. Most of my interactions with ds tend to be negative (not that I start out that way...I always start out speaking kindly & trying not to get riled up...but then it escalates into some stupid argument over the most ridiculous things...like taking a shower). I have got to figure out a way to touch this boy's heart & re-connect with him. Not quite sure how to do it, but I feel strongly this might be the answer. Well...combined with expectations & consequences & consistency... I hope a lot of people pipe in here with some suggestions for you (and I!). Hang in there...

My weakness is the Samoas...oh, my! And since they've started putting less & less in the boxes, it's even easier is to eat the whole box myself...in one sitting. Self-control...that's what I need.

Yeah, we had a problem with the fleece coming up, too. At first, we used large paper clips (the kind with the black attachment on them) to clip the fleece to the sides of the cage. One day I went down to see the piggies and couldn't find one of them--he had gotten under the fleece in one corner, ran around & wasn't able to get out. Kinda funny, but I didn't want it to happen again. I measured the fleece so that it fit the floor of the cage with 1-2 inches extra all around. Then I cut strips of fabric that were 10 inches wide and as long as each side of the cage. For example, our cage is 38 inches square...so I cut the fleece to be 40X40 (to allow for sewing seams & a little extra) and four strips of old fabric to be 40x10. Then I sewed each strip onto each side of the fleece; then sewed the corner edges up together...so I had a type of fitted sheet, if you can visualize it. The sides of our cage bottom are 8 inches tall--we lay several towels down on the bottom and put the fleece on top, with the fabric edges tucked over the sides. Fleece stays in place, piggies can't get underneath...so I guess it works. Now then...it gets dirty pretty fast--even with the kids scooping piggy poop everyday. Right now we have two sets of fleece/towels and we just change it weekly w/daily scooping. I've read that people have been able to 'train' the piggies to use a litter box type of thing, but I'm not sure how to make it happen. What I think we're going to try is to make an area where we put down a hand towel, have the hay, water & pellets in this area...and hope that they do all of their pooping there. Then we'd just change the hand towel every single day. I just very much dislike how much poop there is!