Ok, cool. :thumbup: That's what my experience has shown, but I've just never seen anything formally written about this subject, only cautions on teaching children voice. Yep. I think it's due to the idolization of the singer, literally gaining their identity as a singer by how close to that pop star they are, very much like youth want a certain look (and body type) to go with their idols. Anything less means they are inferior. However, I imagine that is more dangerous in the preteen years, when such celebrity idolizing really kicks in. Now, I have to contrast the flip side of the coin, which is the number of voice teachers who consider the only singing youth should do must be in the style of the "24 Italian Songs & Arias Of The 17th & 18th Centuries". We sing bluegrass now and you must feel free to let that twang shine through, yet to your average voice teacher, I'm ruinin' my kids for not Ooooopening the Voooowels. :lol: Sorry, Heather, for the dramatic hijack!

Ok, I hadn't considered the pop music aspect. I suppose I was thinking kids singing kid games and having fun. Imitating someone with very poor vocal habits would be a problem. Yes, but my kids will just as readily try to sing to good vocal habits out of their range, and I've especially seen this tendency in the boys I used to teach, particularly around 4-6 or so when they get, *snicker*, little boy macho and they want to sing like a dude not like a mom. I've seen a lot of them try that, even more so from boys whose parents do not work on vocal habits, so it must not kill voices or we'd have a bunch of damaged male voices around. The real problems occur when they are asked to sing constantly on the extremes of their range, beyond what is simple fun or beyond what is comfortable. It's not easy or comfortable, so it's my experience, or perhaps my theory, that most kids won't do it to the point of damage if not encouraged inappropriately by and adult. I cannot think of even reading a case that was otherwise, so I suppose I'm wondering if anyone has any specific experience of damage from play - even to pop music, alone. I guess that is what I am getting at. Most parents do not stop this, yet the kids live on to sing fine later, and the ones I've seen receive long term damage - one particularly sad case, was encouraged with lots of practice for various musical theater on things not in a comfortable range. Heavy performance practices create an atmosphere where the natural tendency to quit when the voice is weary or it's not comfortable, is shut off in order to participate and do your part. Yelling during team sports does something similar. You get a "crowd" mentality there, and continue beyond what is healthy. Major pet peeve. :glare: Yes, my kids do that too, yet they have no trouble singing on pitch, harmonies, and one even has absolute pitch. He doesn't sing out of tune or shout, however, he just rolls his eyes and complains how awful everyone sounds. (He's been in trouble for that before and has learned to keep his mouth shut.) LOL! I remember my twins when they were little trying to sing all the runs in Handel's "Rejoice" because they kept hearing me do them. They were about three and it was quite entertaining.

Forgive a dramatic thread hijack, please. Ok, so... given we agree here, I would like to get your opinion on something that I have been asked before, but I wasn't sure if there was any real backing behind my answer, besides just my anecdotal experience. My usual way of handling children that love to sing and excel at their normal great talent of noise-making, is to just let them. I ask because some kids do sing A LOT, and some shout, some try to sing out of their range, etc. I've been asked if it will damage their voice because I know others realize the fragility of children's voices too and worry about their child. I normally suggest a child will not over-push their voice to the point of discomfort, even if they get a little experimental and loud at times, unlike an over-zealous music director may. I have, however, seen first hand damaged voices from pushing adult-appropriate lessons and over-extended use from musical theater and production, but personal play is different. Would you agree?

Can they already match pitch? I agree 100% with the idea of finding their "singing voice", and that too can be found through just play. I am rather suspicious of formal "voice lessons" for most children. Inappropriate advice can do long term damage to young voices. My youngest two sing with our band, and though I am qualified to teach voice lessons, having experience myself and college courses on vocal technique, I do not teach them other than simply helping them find their comfortable and natural singing voice. I let them simply enjoy and find their own style until the teen years. If they cannot match pitch, here is a video I made with some suggestions that can be altered for older children, again, using a natural play and exploration of the voice as a guide. It's amateurish, but video production is not one of my talents. :tongue_smilie:

You may have to just make up your own, in a way, if you wish to include everyone. I would recommend going to a music store and looking for some collections of songs that have the piano part, vocal part, and include guitar chords. Really, anything that appeals to your girls so they are more likely to actually do this. Try to find some with the vocals in a range you know your girls will best sing in, songs traditionally done by females or on or just below the treble clef. The clarinet, being a B-flat instrument, poses some trouble, since she would have to transpose, or you will have to try to find a book for the clarinet with similar songs, because I cannot think of any compilations that include a B-flat transposition as well, but perhaps someone at the store may know more. However, if the tune is simple she can certainly just play it by ear, having the piano player pick out the melody and having the clarinet player play with it a bit until she figures it out. If she gets good at it, your problems are solved for this and she can just make up anything to go along with whatever you are playing. Harmonies to sing can often be found through the piano line. Youtube is a great place to hear various arrangements of an amazing number of songs as well, in order to "borrow" the harmonies if the music does not include them, and get ideas for a solo instrument to copy.

Yes, partly because I have one teen who tends to lose herself in "socializing"... don't know where she gets that from. :tongue_smilie: We have the K9 filter installed on their netbooks with the night guard set to block it at 10pm every night until 5 or 6am. However, mine blocks too on the main computer. (I do have the password, but I try not to abuse unblocking.) I limit time on select sites through Leechblock on firefox as well, since we worked out a deal up front on internet usage vs. time spent on other priorities. If priorities are met, time can increase. However, I have been trying to hold by the same standards and I have Leechblock set for things on my "time waster" list as well, so I'm not asking more of them than I ask of myself, since we have the same weakness.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some investigating. :001_smile:

We got the kids a Wii fit last winter and they really enjoy it, but they've covered most of what it offers at this point. We picked up the Sports Resort for more Wii active fun, but we're out of ideas. The Wii was purchased for light active and competitive family fun, (oh, and Netflix streaming!), and I'd like to add a game for the holidays with a similar style. It's not generally for personal video gaming. Any recommendations? Is there any other game out there that will use the balance board besides Wii Fit?

:iagree: Technology I admit, I just don't purchase for them. I do pitch in when I can so they can buy their own, but it's not in our budget to buy most of that in full. This expectation was laid out quite some time ago, so it's simply a matter of fact to them. My daughters saved for over a year to purchase the specific new netbooks they wanted, with money they earned, grandparents helping, and a financial gift from us. For the big items it's quite reasonable to ask them to pull their resources. It's good practice for them on budgeting and planning. I love the idea someone mentioned about selling the old ones to help afford the new ones too. Homeschool moms do that all of the time. ;)

:iagree: I heard something along this lines, as well as a possible reduced number of people pulled out for the scanners, perhaps some less invasive pat-downs so there would be no stink today. The question will be whether or not this was to thwart the protest plan, or if they're backing down. I'm sorry to suggest, I think it's the former. They're just going to go more slowly implementing their fiendish plans. :glare: I think I must be jaded.

:iagree: When my girls were young our financial situation was dramatically different than others in the family, yet we were put into drawings, some with cousins we'd barely met due to someone marrying, or living with, etc. It made me nuts to be told I had to spend $25 per person and shop off some random list for some random person. To be fair, I opted out the following year before the drawing, not after people were already buying gifts, but I did call an end to it for us. Now, with more children, I'm really glad. More kids already means I'm buying more presents for them. I don't need to also buy more for cousins too than the other cousins.

:iagree: In fact, I've heard of some schools that actually have all their potential brass playing kids start on the trumpet for a year or two, then they can branch out after that.

My daughter plays and has studied under some great banjo teachers. She plays the tenor 5-string with Scrugg style, which is the most commonly used in bluegrass. There are other styles out there, used in old time music and other similarly related genres. Do you think he has a preference? We found our teacher at a local guitar store. If he is interested in bluegrass, find out if your state has a bluegrass society or any major festivals, get the names of some of the local banjo players, and email for recommendations. You can also check the banjohangout.org and search the site, or post an inquiry. In my experience, most banjo players are quite enthusiastic about their instrument and happy to help. There are sometimes kid camps in many areas for bluegrass too if you don't want to commit to lessons. Those and a few good method books/DVDs are often enough to get an ambitious child started.

We're getting a camcorder! (Ok, if they're in stock we're getting one.) Jeans for the whole family too. There are often good sales on those days for jeans and we are having a jean crisis all over the house these days. Coats for my twins, plus gloves/hats for all. I used to always stay home and still would except for the jean crisis. I'll be sending dh for the camcorder.

Ok. I can agree with this. JUST because someone says something, no. Certainly not. Do your own homework. Everyone. Always. Agreed again. However, if Glenn Beck awakens someone who was previously oblivious to possible danger, that alone could be good if steered in the right direction. Perhaps I've just gotten a bit over-sensitive to the Pavlovian response to anything said by a Fox personality, (not directing this specifically at you), instead of honestly looking into the subject to educate one's fellow conservative dunderhead. :tongue_smilie:

Hmmm... I hadn't seen that, but it honestly doesn't bother me. It's very common anymore for companies to hire sympathetic famous personalities to peddle their stuff. I've heard an untold number of radio personalities plugging law firms for wills, "who will take care of your children?", ones peddle things to save energy because "we are killing our planet", etc. Cancer treatment centers, divorce lawyers, windows... It's as common as dirt anymore. We may hate it, but I can't say I'm up in arms because Glenn Beck does it too, like he's somehow unique. He believes this stuff, as much as the go green people believe their stuff and peddle things that match what they believe. I could go nuts saying they're peddling their doom and gloom to make a buck, and I could find evidence. This doesn't mean they are WRONG about global warming (nor does it mean they're right). If they think they're right, they should go with companies that conserve energy and/or invest in things they happen to believe in. Forgive me, but I'm unimpressed as to why this is worthy of our attention enough to divert the discussion.

Oh, I was just thinking about this web site the other day! I had forgotten the name so I couldn't find it! Thank you! :001_smile:

Thanks again, everyone. I think we'll try something age appropriate this year, just to see if the excitement sticks around. She can then expand on it later as she gets older, with more advanced ideas. I'm thinking about looking more at the pictures for specific ideas, finding some type of a bird house frame for my husband to open up and alter a bit, then getting her a little bag/basket of woodland decorative things at Michael's or Hobby Lobby. :party:

Oh, I love sewing projects! Of course, she's also requested a yellow sparkly dress, with matching shoes, and a pink sparkly ukulele, so I have a yellow sparkly dress to sew. :tongue_smilie: A few years ago I sewed her a little house that was also a carry case, three little bears, and a change of clothes for the bears. Maybe next year I'll get ambitious and try a fairy house!

I love the garden fairy ideas. I sadly have a brown thumb and winter is coming, but maybe next spring we can add some planters to any house we make.

Oh, that is darling! I love it, and I've only just clicked on one so far! Lots to find, I'm sure.

The "everyone" thing wasn't the right word. I'm going to go back and change it because it does sound far more dramatic than I meant. No one needs other media to dislike Glenn Beck - that I get. However, places like the Huffington Post have a bit of an occasional fixation on him, I've noticed, and they often are the ones who up the drama over who is advertising on his show and why. I don't really get that because a smart advertiser will run to the show already talking about what they're selling for a prime audience. Do we freak because Al Gore is invested in green companies? Maybe we should. He's not even a radio show with advertisers. But to be fair, perhaps we need to go there and get it out of the system, while still keeping the discussion on strack. Is there no real reason to stock up and Glenn Beck is simply driving fears to make a buck, or is there are real reason, he's crying out the warning, and a smart advertiser found a place to benefit from a need - as any good business would? I only commented because I have noticed that if something was said on Fox News (again - I don't have cable and do not watch it), a certain number of brains shut off and the discussion gets snarky instead of productive. It gets old.

You're kidding me, right? Many here are saying this solely due to what Glenn Beck says so he can make a buck? :001_huh: Sounds like some alternate media is getting to you about what to think of Beck, more than Beck is getting to me. I don't have cable to watch Fox News, and I've only occasionally had opportunity to catch his radio show because I, well, homeschool. My husband has seen the writing on the wall for this for some time now, due to watching the markets, reading history, and other far less fun places to bash. I agree that we are about to see a major shift in economics and that food is a prime area for inflation. Preparing yourself for a food crisis has to do with a lot of things, in the ability for the average family to afford it if there is a jump in prices, and the ability for farmers to continue to produce it when they are often already barely managing. Feast and famine are pretty common through history and I highly doubt we have seen the end of this common human predicament. Really, jumping to the Fox News/Glenn Beck talk diverts from the discussion to the point where it takes over and we can't even discuss what's going on in the world, 'cause someone on Fox may have mentioned it once.

She thinks it has to be for real fairies, so that must mean doll house size. I admit. Someone saw the latest Tinker Bell movie. I would like to move that fairy craziness a bit away from Disney, however, and more into a craft/creative project. I think getting some small wood base home may be a good idea, then I'll go nuts from the picture ideas others have posted and shop at Michaels.

Oh my! I must have used some bad search words because I didn't come up with nearly as many neat links! So much for my evening. I think I'll be fairy house hunting all night! :w00t: