bodiesmom
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Posts posted by bodiesmom
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Thank you, Hive. I mean a sincere, genuine, thank you.
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7 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:
I'd probably also assume that it wasn't her idea to be part of this organization honestly, and in that case I'd support her trying to get kicked out.
All the girls involved in this particular situation are very active in their troops. They led most of the camp activities and their sashes (all patriots) were VERY full. This is not a situation of them not wanting to be in AHG.
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3 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:
Well, I'm with Jean, I am never comfortable with threads that are posted with hidden agendas. I really prefer for people to explain the point without trying to do surveys and fact gathering to support whatever the real agenda is - even if it's a situation in which you are trying to figure out how to do something positive about it...
That said, I have to disagree with those who are so concerned about nobody ever flouting rules that judge and exclude. If nobody ever did that, the Jim Crow laws would still be in place. Somebody had to go sit at the lunch counter, even if a lot of people were hauled out in handcuffs or whatever. Somebody has to be gay at church camp, even if the powers that be decide to send them home or the gossips want to shame them. Those who break rules in an effort to advance civil rights are aware of potential consequences and prepared to pay, if it helps to open doors down the road.
Others prefer to work for change in other ways. Maybe by not going to a church camp that has some pronouncement upon their very existence and welcome, for example. But I don't think it's for other people to decide how people in minority groups choose to fight for equality, as long as they are not breaking the law. (Church camp rules are not laws.)
Tibbie, there honestly is no hidden agenda. just trying to have a discussion. If you aren't comfortable, I understand.
Your middle paragraph is the type of discussion I was hoping could happen.
We are all intelligent individuals who are capable of removing the emotion and contributing to a discussion without snark and projecting assumptions onto the OP.
If you aren't comfortable in continuing...that's fair.
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7 minutes ago, scholastica said:
But, if you join a group with rules, no matter how antiquated, you should follow them or be ready to be asked to leave. If someone joined an LGBTQ+ group and came in wearing something with an anti-LGBTQ+ message, they'd probably be asked to leave. I have no dog in this fight. I think that groups have rules, and if I don't agree, I don't join. It's ok for them to have rules, it's okay for me not to join. Why should she get to flout the rules? She can fight to change them, but should follow them until they are overturned.
This.
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3 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:
I'm not sure that I understand the purpose of the thread. Is it so that you can decide what to think for yourself? Is it so that you can decide whether you should do or say something?
The purpose of this thread is to gather a wide range of opinions on what I experienced this week, including the overheard discussions and comments.
No, I don't need a thread to help me to decide what to think for myself.
Back to the thread...
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2 minutes ago, Lady Marmalade said:
I am reminded of my own church camp days many years ago. There were always those rebels along at camp who didn't *really* want to be there. There were those who snuck off into the woods for a smoke/drink/hookup or those who pushed the limits of appropriate dress as much as possible. Those kids never really failed to get their "message" across, but for the most part they endured the week and the life returned to normal for them afterwards.
I hope the girls at your camp managed to find something about their week of camp to enjoy.
These girls were very happy and quite popular, not that I think it matters. They led most of the campfire skits and even helped teach some of the classes. Again,just painting the picture and trying to clear up any assumptions or questions
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1 minute ago, SKL said:
Well I am curious because I know that the AHG rules include taking certain actions if a girl is not living the way AHG expects them to. I have always wondered what they would do if a girl was exploring non-traditional sexual preferences, short of being in a sexual relationship (which is verboten for all unmarried AHG girls).
I'm just curious too, SKL. ? I honestly have no idea whether or not any of these girls lives the way AHG expects them to, nor is it any of my business.
The point is, a message was clearly being sent. CLEARLY. There are nuances that you just can't describe in text that help complete the picture.
Again, I am NOT making a judgment call. It seems that by me asking a question automatically I'm making judgment calls. I am not.
Thank you to those who have responded in an objective way.
Please keep them coming...
1 minute ago, Lady Marmalade said:-
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1 minute ago, SKL said:
Well I hope you are going to tell us the comments you overheard.
Yeah...no. ? That would get the thread shut down for sure. I just want input outside of the "AHG" community. The feedback I'm getting is exactly what I was hoping for, minus the snark and assumptions.
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1 minute ago, SKL said:
I am giving OP the benefit of the doubt that "very obviously dressing like a boy" at age 16 means wanting to come across as looking like a boy. In other words not just being a tomboy who finds boy clothes comfy. Of course I was not there so I don't know. I was definitely a tomboy with short hair and wore my brothers' hand-me-downs for financial reasons. I don't think anyone thought I was a cross-dresser, but maybe they did. (I wasn't.)
Thank you, SKL. I have tomboys in my family.
You will have to just trust me (or not) that this girl definitely was sending a message. I'm not calling that bad or good. I'm just trying to paint the picture.
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Okay. Assumptions are being made about my intention for starting this thread. I apologize because I kept it vague.
There were lots of comments that I overheard while at camp and I wanted to get some input from the Hive. I've been lurking here for YEARS so I know the general feel of this board. That said....please continue to just share your thoughts without assuming I'm making a judgment call. Because I.AM.Not.
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19 minutes ago, Amira said:
I’d be glad all of them could wear what they chose.
I had to chuckle at this, Amria, because ironically, they can't wear what they choose to wear. They can't wear short shorts, they can't wear spaghetti straps, etc.
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I'm appreciating these responses. Please keep them coming! Just leave out the snark, and please try not to assume what my "stance" is.
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Again, you do NOT know my stance on this issue, Tibbie Dunbar. I'm simply asking. I'm NOT making a judgment call WHATSOEVER. Please do not make this a discussion for or against rainbows, for or against the LGBTQ community. Please avoid trying to "educate" me on what you think I do or do not accept, what I do or do not understand, etc. I am simply asking for your thoughts.
I posted a thread about how to handle a coordinator who was about to shame a girl for wearing what she thought was a too-tight-dress last fall. I was looking for help in how to prevent said coordinator from shaming the girl.
Now back to the original question...
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Thank you all for your responses, snark and all. ?
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12 minutes ago, Chris in VA said:
I read it as she thought about it and realized it was actually pretty cool.
Maybe she's just one of those people who like to be right, and thought she was, about the project being ill-advised. She tried to get more information to support her position.
I sorta understand that, because I'm a little like that, though I'm working on it. I never mean to be disparaging, but I am, because, well, it is unsupportive and critical when someone does this. Took me a while to get that.
I think the above response is pretty perfect. ❤️
That's exactly it-she has to be right, and she has to have the last word, which is also why I hesitate to even respond with anything.
Thank you for your honesty, Chris!
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1 hour ago, Farrar said:
FB post reply: "I know, right! I was surprised this was in the AHG handbook because it sounds so weird. I'm so proud of my daughter who is the one who actually took the time to plan this and bring the supplies and everything. It wasn't perfect, but it really worked for the kids who had the patience for it. It's so cool how scouts can let our kids try new things like this and take on leadership roles!"
That's not snarky, right? ?
I might actually use this...I'll have to sleep on it. ?
This verbalizes exactly how I feel about this particular situation and all the others prior to this one....
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8 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:
So, it actually worked - so are you sure she is meaning to be disparaging with the FB post?
She sounds like kind of a jerk, though.
Her FB is absolutely meant to be disparaging, that I'm sure of. It is par for the course in how she typically responds to troop activity-she's definitely a criticizer, not an encourager
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My daughter and another girl from her AHG troop planned a weekend camping trip that occurred at the beginning of June. One of the activities she created (based off one of the badge requirements) was to try and pop popcorn in a paper bag over a campfire. Although it seems like a crazy idea, it actually worked for about a 1/4 of the girls who were willing to be patient and let the kernels heat, and none of the bags burned. Shocking, I know! ?
Anyway, during the entire time the girls were trying to pop their corn around the fire, another parent (who happens to be the troop coordinator) sat there questioning the idea in a mocking tone. She then started looking on her phone to prove that my daughter had planned it wrong. She also texted her husband about the idea and then read his response to the group (which was obviously not in support of such an idea). My daughter sat there quietly just trying to just focus on her popcorn bag.
I wanted to say something to the leader then, but figured I was just being too sensitive due to other gripes I've had in the past with said parent.
Fast forward to today. She posted a photo on our troop FB page of the girls all around the campfire trying earnestly to make the kernels pop. She added the caption "Popcorn in a Paper Bag Over the Fire..." which has already started to produce some "shocked" responses.
I'm upset. Am I being too sensitive?
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sMy DS had a hard time with the troop in our town when he crossed over. He thought the meetings were boring (they wore). He was scared of the leader Which led to a really bad experience on a troop trip. My DH is Eagle Scout and long time adult volunteer, and quitting wasn't an option for him, but we worked to make scouting a better experience for DS. He attended less of the meetings for a while. He skipped merit badges that he had no interest in. We did not make him finish merit badges that he didn't like. We did find other ways to show him what scouting could be. We took him to merit badge classes even when troop wasn't attending. DH took him to a parent/son event at Galveston Sea base (16hr drive from home). DS worked as a Den chief to get leadership hours that he couldn't get with the troop. He attended summer camp as a Lone Scout and had a wonderful time with another troop. He enjoyed it so much that he has applied to work at that camp this summer. He also attended Jamboree last summer. It has taken a lot of time and money on our part to do all this, but now he does understand why his dad didn't want him to quit and what scouting can be.
I forgot- I did have to force my DS to attend his first summer camp. (Not physicaly) I told him he had to go but if it was terrible he would never have to attend any more troop meetings. Luckily he had a good time.
This is basically what I'm doing with my daughter and her AHG troop
OP- both of my boys are in scouts and I can see how this is a tough decision. The fact that they are holding you "hostage", so to speak, with the BOR until after the BBQ might push me towards jumping ship. That's not right.
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I guess at the very least I would like to see this as optional. To be required to submit a minimum of 20 emails to avoid consequences is not okay. I mean, some kids might have 20 family members they can feel comfortable giving, but we don't. And even if we did, it's just...I don't know. It doesn't sit well with me at all. 😄You know, I was probably the lone dissenter, but I can see my mistake now. I guess that it is an invasion of privacy, but what are the options? Yes, you can disagree with it and even talk to the coaches about it, but is there something that you can do to change the fundraiser? I do believe the punitive nature of the threat is definitely over the line. I guess if it was my son I would ask my friends and family for their permission to share the email addresses.
Other than that I'm not sure there is anything I can do to actually change the fundraiser.
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Yes, I see the "multiquote" option....lol!
It's just that my old and decrepit iPad will not cooperate.
I'm so sorry for the multiple responses!
Thank you everyone! You are amazing!
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The school website probably has a few email addresses to choose from.
I'm so doing this......
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That's disgusting on so many levels.
1. It's to support a team, isn't it, not a charity, not like runs to support xyz cancer research. Even then, you send out emails, you don't give addresses to an organization.
2. It makes an unequal commitment -- people who have multiple grandparents, etc who would support anything vs people without such resources.
3. Are these addresses for one time use?
4. If kids are doing fundraising, they should call on an actual telephone to ask or handwrite a personal appeal, put it in an envelope, and mail it. Providing an email address only is a cop out with the kids doing essentially no work.
5. You don't use your friends for marketing purposes. Just no.
6. What is the money being used for? Is this common in your school?
Personally, I would create a bunch of gmail or other accounts with made up names and submit them.
Who came up with punishment? What on earth do these coaches do for a living IRL? Organized crime?
This is what our school does for team fundraisers:
1. When you sign up, you check a box indicating whether or not you want emails about the support groups, or whatever you call them. I always say yes.
2. Then I get an email from the group of parents -- never the coaches-- who run the group, asking if I would like to donate xx dollars (or more, or less) but emphasizing that it is completely voluntary, no penalties if you don't, no special recognition if you do.
3. For cross country, there is a team dinner, simple pasta at the school, for all kids.
4. For track, a bigger sport, there is a dinner at a local restaurant, free to those who donated, modest cost to those who did not.
5. At no point is there any move to show which students' families have donated and which not.
6. Never do coaches fundraise, only parents. I think it may be against school policy. Makes sense, as coaches get a gift at final dinner.
7. No one ever asks family other than parents to give anything.
8. All permission for any fundraising, such as hurricane relief, has to go through a school approval process.
With some new sports that were just getting started, parents contributed until sports got off the ground enough to be funded by school. But I knew these parents and never was asked for $$.
ETA
I liked every post here. Privacy, yes, of course.
Alessandra- I like the way your school does fundraising....think I will share that with the school. I agree with every point you posted, especially 4 and 5. It IS a cop out. These kiddos are doing NOTHING to raise these funds whatsoever. And no, friends are not to be used for personal gain, which I feel this reeks of.
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Eternalsummer.....you nailed it with this quote...
And it doesn't matter whether your DS would care if he got spam emails from 20 different companies, or robocalls from 20 different charities, or whatever - he might care or he might not. It doesn't matter, because giving away someone else's information is making that decision (whether they would care) for them, and it is rude at least and morally reprehensible at worst.
Thank you!
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If you saw this at a scout camp...
in The Chat Board
Posted
These are very outspoken, very comfortable, very happy 16-18 year olds who enjoyed their time there. I would imagine if a girl that age did not want to be at that kind of camp they would not be eagerly, actively involved.
And yes, AHG is a conservative Christian alternative to Girl Scouts that is indeed "intended" to be free of secularism, feminism, or any criticism of patriotism. Not all who join for that reason, however. But that is besides the point.