74Heaven
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Posts posted by 74Heaven
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74Heaven--I think the difference is that an ALE is not the same as a traditional brick & mortar public school. We don't have the same rules. I know there are specific requirements for high school, I'm not there yet so I don't know what they are.
So, I'm not sure what the above is referring to. If it is regarding my gf and her public-schooled 4.0 students and Core Math - that was just aside. Kind of a testament to inflexibilty.
Lisaj,
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Last year dd took a high school level class at our local ALE (Vancouver's version of Home-Link). Who else will let an eager 7th grader take Spanish 1 with 9th & 10th graders besides an ALE? It was a brilliant scenario. :)
We didn't report on any subject outside of the courses she took at the ALE. I had to tell them how many hours she studied Spanish 1 at home. They didn't care about other materials we used.
We received state funding for her Spanish. This year we are getting those funds via CVA with the same minimal evasiveness and control.
First to answer your question/comment: almost every home-schooling co op I know about places students via ability rather than age? Currently, I am teaching a high school Latin class with a 6th grader (with virtually no previous Latin experience) in it. Great student; no problem.
If you are saying your daughter attended a public school alternative education site where Spanish 1 was taught (Vancouver ALE) - and then you also got money for that? Totally unfamiliar with that scenario unless your reimbursement was for Spanish books?
Not sure what you are saying because if your daughter was being educated by the ALE "by a certificated teacher with state-approved curriculum" then, I guess I don't see why is what you are using at home relevant? It would be like the "afterschooling" example I used. And why they would reimburse you for that if the ALE provides the teacher and selects the curriculum?
Is that the scenario? I must be missing something?
lisaj
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I understand that. But I cannot see how what I use my own money for can be regulated in that way. :confused: People who use brick and mortar schools (tax payer funded) can use whatever they want to supplement their dc's education. How is this any different?
I think i can make this more clear.
The state makes the standards and gives the diploma. In your above instance, the "afterschooling" is not getting school credit or in any way connected with their "education" as regulated by their public school enrollment. No state oversight because the state isn't asked to "recognize" anything.
But sign up for the local S.D. Home-Link program and they are giving you moeny and they want to know that your child is doing reading, writing and arithmetic within a certain overall "grade level". The oversight is based on the fact that state funds are being used - and those funds are tied to State Learning Requirements. It gets dicier the closer you get to high school.
Briefly, the School District (State) decides what is "credit-worthy" and remember, alternative education / state standards are different, testing requirements, Creation-based science, etc. etc. All these are red flags that get discussed and basically, sometimes, the "Home-Link" educators and administrators kind of "wink" at some of these things - which I think is wrong - WA State Law is very clear - that only secular materials are paid for.
For instance, the State Supt. office has no idea that Shurley ENglish (for instance) has some Bible references and writing assignments in it. If they did, an overzealous (State) administrator might nix it as an option. However, the local secretary/teacher in the Home-Link program knows Shurley is almost secular - and in fact, could be used that way - and so they "wink" and say "sure". (i.e. following the "spirt of the law" if not the "letter of the law"). Administrator in the State Office has auditors and etc. and so obviously, they are more concerned about "what will pass audit"; not what "might be ok." But remember, the Auditor doesn't know Shurley has Bible verses, either lol.
More specifically think about science. So, if you want your child to earn a high school diploma from the Home-Link program, well, then they may not get credit for the "Parent-Purchased" curriculum (i.e. Apologia Science curriculum is not secular) because it isn't acceptable "content" per state learning requirements. So, if your student spends ample time/effort/grade doing Apologia w/o previous "okay" from the school district, then no credit will be given.
One current example is this. 8th graders passed Alg. 1 in 2008. 8th graders were given 1 credit (by Home-Link) for Alg. 1 on their transcripts. Now these 8th graders are in 10th grade. Guess what, State Changes the Game: the state just added some kind of Alg. 1 test (I think it is a standardized test) to the graduation requirements for those seeking a School District Home-Link diploma. (I believe this is a requirement for all state high school grads.)
As a legal home-schooler, we say, "so what". My child passed Alg. 1, I put that on their transcript, it's done.
As a public school student who desires a S.D. Diploma - enrolled in a alternative education Program, you are subject to the state rule change and your child may not be able to graduate OR you will have to remediate Alg. 1 concepts to pass the test because your 10-11-12th grader, did Geometry and no Alg. 2. (Now if you are not diploma-seeking in these programs - i.e. your child gets a State of Washington diploma, then you have more flexibility than those seeking diplomas. In fact, most of my IRL friends end up "diploma seeking" (and thus more heavily regulated) because to them, "it makes sense" at some step of the journey and the s.d. is "pushing" this as a "benefit". No *mommy diploma*; more official, etc. etc.
This is the rub, imho, the state cares about "standards" and "one-size-fits-all regulations" ABOVE quality of education. It is the nature of the beast that it is easier for everyone if you "go along" and "follow our rules".
Briefly, my gf has enrolled her students in traditional public school for all their education. She and her dh and several other parents were disgusted with the "Core Math" that did away with Alg 1/2/Geometry a few years ago. SO they did all the chain-of-command things and were told, "sorry, no". My gf decided to teach her children Saxon math. (I am not making the following up.) She was not allowed to use this math instruction IN the school district facilities and (hard to believe but true) she taught her daughter in the van in the school parking lot during school hours. Btw, her dtrs were 4.0 students, her daughter still had to do the Core Math I think. (not sure of that?)
The school dist. didn't flex even for a long-time resident.
oK, way too long - sorry
lisaj
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2. The existence of virtual public schools: I have yet to hear/read a compelling argument for why this undermines independent homeschooling (and I have done quite a bit of reading on this issue). Private schools do not undermine public schools and neither undermines homeschooling...I fail to see how public schools at home are any different. The VA I belong to has been around for 14 years and many more have cropped up in that time. The laws for independent homeschoolers have not changed during that time at all. As far as I know, there is no current threat to the freedom of independent homeschooling in WA. Virtual schools are under constant attack, though (by independent homeschoolers).
I guess my thought is that if you (general) are concerned about losing your freedom to independently homeschool your kids, then look for the weaknesses in homeschoolers, don't go attacking people who use other methods. Do what you can to encourage homeschoolers who might be struggling. Challenge people who are using the term "homeschooler" as a euphemism for "slacker". Encourage your co-op to up the standards. Start a support group. Take opportunities to compete in contests, spelling bees, etc. as a homeschooler to improve the reputation. Blaming other people for the failure in your own movement rarely brings about any positive results.
YOu may want to consider my (recent) previous post. In fact, these programs were originally "conceived" with the idea that homeschoolers "needed" govt. assistance, enrichment classes, tutoring, help from certified teachers, etc. etc. It was "sold" to the legislature and/or the State Supt. of Public Education in this way.
So, obviously, if homeschoolers flock to these programs - and that has happened in our small local community - then the legislature/school districts are saying, "see, there's a need for this" and the oioneers and many of us see that is the path to more legislation.
The school districts get money - anything that brings **money** brings govt. oversight.
Lastly, I know the leaders and many families who use s.d. public school programs for ex-homeschoolers. And the truth is, these programs have gotten more and more and more and more restrictive. Every year, the screws tighten and there are more requirements, less reimbursements, etc.
I actually kind of feel that these programs will "kill themselves" because the govt. wants accountability for every cent. Money's tight - where can we cut?
Lisaj, thankful for the freedoms
Lastly
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In terms on "online schools," I hear a lot of flack against them as they aren't "homeschooling" and the public schools are trying to trick families into this public school option. I don't know how it is elsewhere, but I do know where I live, there are at least 3 different online programs advertised on tv, radio, etc. And all of them talk about it being *public school.* On the tv ads, it is spoken by the announcer and written in big letters on the screen, "an online public school option." So I have not been able to understand the argument that they are there to trick homeschool families into public school. It really isn't hidden, at least not where I live. :001_smile:
Here in my state, I live in a s.d. that kind of "pioneered" the school district alternative education programs to attract home-schoolers. It is better *now* - these programs have been around 8-10 years now - but in their earlier ads, s.d. newsletters, local newspaper, etc. the program called "Home-Link" continually referred to itself as a home-schooling program or enrichment for home-schooling, etc. etc. (I would guess as recently as 2 years ago, this was still a huge mislabeling problem.)
To make it worse, the program used to trumpet the perceived inadequacies of a home-education and how this program was providing *needed* *crucial* support to home-schoolers.
The blatant message (like I said, it is better now) was that home-schoolers needed help and by golly, the public schools were going to give it to them. This type of "selling" even happened from the s.d.'s to the State Supt. and the legislature.
I know for sure that many local home-schooling parents pointed this unlawful labeling to the state and the local school district and I would certainly guess that this is why the "public school" label is now more prominently posted.
I saw ads at the beginning where there was absolutely no mention of "public schooling" at all. I think it was even called "Home-school Enrichment" going back even 10-12 years ago...
Btw, I am pretty sure this local district and this state (WA) were very early or "pioneering" in the Home-Link movement and so other states prob. learned the legal terminology thru modeling after WA State's programs.
Lisaj
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We just do one lesson a day, 4x a week. :confused: It only takes about 10-15 minutes.
Same here. WWE 1 with a 2nd grader with meticulous printing.
WWE3 with a 4th grader with atrocious (but improving thanks to WWE) cursive.
Btw, my 4th grader used to have lovely handwriting too but it just goes downhill with nearly all of my children as they get older?
lj
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HI, I'd like some suggestions for 2nd grade/3rd grade Lang Arts Curric.
I want something grab-and-go, *very* easy-to-use Lang Arts for my 2nd grade (lastborn, been reading for 3yrs). I am using A Beka gr 2 but it is 80%+ phonics and he doesn't need the phonics at all. What he does need is reinforcement and instruction in general language arts mechanics and parts of speech, writing, etc. I am considering just getting the 3rd gr. A Beka which I know is firm, traditional language arts. I am also buying Shurley Eng for 2nd or 3rd grade.
In the past, we have used A Beka for Lang Arts 1st-3rd; then switched to Shurley in 4th-6th Lev 4,6,7), then a year of Rod & Staff gr. 7 partnered with IEW for 8-9th grade. We do Latin as well, so their grammar skills are pretty strong by the time this sequence is completed.
Reading and WWE I have covered. Mostly real books and oral narrations.
I am just wondering what else is out there that I should consider for this last son. Also, price is important. Cheap is better :).
Lisaj
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I have never heard of "farming out" to co-ops in my nine years of homeschooling ....
I haven't heard of it or seen this either? Unless this is referring to the govt. school programs that I don't consider homeschooling, I suppose some of this occurs there. The majority of families I know in govt. programs (alternative ed here in WA State) I know are still working hard at home with their students and using public schooling for support, money, extra-curriculars, tutors, piano lessons, gymnastics, swim team, etc.
Btw, the reason I don't consider those enrolled in govt. school programs as homeschoolers solely because their legal status is not home-schooling but (in this state and most others), their legal status is Public School Alternative Education.
That does not mean that these parents who use these govt. programs are not working hard, not being good parents and teachers or not "anything". It just means that the govt. and all the appropriate laws classify their children as enrolled in the public school. It is what it is.
Lisaj
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We had a "Homewchool Open House" a few years ago and invited all our long time neighbors and all the aunts and uncles. My sister's son was about 4th grade and he had a sign called "Stump the Noah" and he had a can with strips of paper with questions on it - math facts, history, science, etc. that guests could ask him. I think you got candy if you stumped him? It ended up being really fun and we joke about it 7-8 years later.
One of the neighbors still jokes that it was so refreshing to see the kids' papers had "red pen" marks on them because nowadays she said (I have no idea?) that teachers don't use red pens because it hurts a child's morale.
We also had cookies and juice and coffee and each kid had a table with their exhibits, workbooks, sports ribbongs, trophies, etc.
I wish I had the energy to do this every year, lol. IT was fun and it did "legitimize" homeschooling for some of the relatives!
Lisaj
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We did the same progression, 100 EL, Alpha-Phonics, then we went right into Pathways. Just started at the beginning, First Steps is the first book. The first 2-3 Pathways books are extremely easy and that was a confidence booster to my children. We didn't use the workbooks because mine were too young and the workbooks usually didn't "match" the reading level my child was at. So we used random workbooks or no workbooks for a year or so.
But, you could go into just about any program's first/2nd grade level, depending on how much phonics you want to continue with (we always continued with a little), your child's writing skills (mine had very little writing skill at 5yo) and other things. Just keep reading daily! Btw, I did this with 5 kids, so feel very confident.
LJ
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I can't imagine any "Algebra 2" topics that aren't covered by Math Relief. (If I'm wrong about that, let me know!)
I think the problem might be that some programs expect you to tack other things onto Algebra 2, such as some trigonometry or statistics or things like that. Sometimes some of the "math terminology" and "math logic" that is usually in Geometry will be instead covered in Algebra 1 or 2.
Seems like logarithms (which I can't spell today) was not covered in MR Alg. 2 but was covered in VT and Chalkdust PreCalc assumed a level of expertise in logarithms that even Vt didn't quite provide.
I can't remember what else - my brain is foggy, MR was 2007 or 2008 for us and neither of my high school age dtrs are home now!
Lisaj
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Beth, just curious. What does the state consider you? As in the legal status? Do you still file a Intent to Home School each fall? What does CVA stand for?
Lisaj, also in WA
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Love, love, love Shurley English!
Despise, despise, despise Easy Grammar!
Lisaj, mom to 5
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I did outsource Spanish and high school Latin but I was able to attend (with my high school dtrs) an academically rigorous classical co op. The exact kind I'd like to join LOL.
So, I actually prefer to co op academics because it "takes something off of my plate". This may have to do with homeschooling 5 children and feeling completely under pressure at all times. It also has to do with transitioning my students to be accountable to someone else.
So, my thing is generally "fun" in the younger years at co op and "academic rigor" where ever I can find it in the high school/jr high years.
But you do have to be choosy and know what you want from the co op and what you are willing (or able) to deliver as well. I am currently teaching two Latin classes in a co op, requiring homework, working several hours a week to be prepared and enjoying it immensely. (And offering Latin to approx. 20 students who wouldn't have it otherwise :).
Lisaj, whose did not co op when she had kids in diapers and toddlers and preschoolers :)
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These things combined with a more mainstream world of home schooling, where there are therefore increased numbers of people not doing so much school, but more just getting by, concerns me for the future of this grassroots movement we call home schooling.
What say you, hive?
Just nodding here. It may help if "Classical Homeschooling" is a better description for us then just "homeschooling". I think I'll try that.
But definitely, "homeschooling" as a catch-all phrase is being slandered by those that don't home educate - it is thus harmful for the reputation of the movement. I think efforts to "own the term" have fallen short and "homeschooling" has been coined as the catch-all term for "not public schooling."
Sad, but true.
Lisaj
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Firebaugh? I think that is the MR instructor's name. I want to say Leonard?
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I have no idea why you'd supplement unless you thought MR would help your child understand some concepts that need reinforcement for her understanding of Lial's. Overall, I have liked the effectiveness of DVD teaching for higher maths. The MR teacher (forget his name) is a great instructor. We did MR for Alg. 2 after one dtr hated VT. Mistake. My complaint about MR is that it didn't cover all of the concepts that Videotext did and that Chalkdust PreCalc course assumed a student covered in Alg. 2.
Lj
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You prob. know it is listed high on the US News & World Report or other magazine's Top College lists? That is all I know, sorry not to be more help! Have fun!
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Thanks again, ladies. Still open to your tricks and tips, everyone! I signed up for the Yahoo group. Sounds like a lot of experts will be on hand there. I still wish for more hand-holding, but we are getting there.
How about a WWYD? We have met 3x and I have given 2 simple quizzes. First one was giving case, Latin and English for the 1st decl noun, terra. Second quiz was vocab thru 2 weeks (15 words?) and 3 sent to translate taken directly from the previous week's HW. Two sisters flunked both. Everyone else (7 students) passed with flying colors. Should I call the mom? Looks like these 2 sisters are not doing their homework. (which is the main reason I gave the quizzes, 4 students (out of 9) came to class the second meeting and had not done their homework! All of the students are grades 7-9 so easily capable of MP's slow-paced Henle!
thanks
Lisaj
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Because I agree with you that the goal is the "concept", I would not allow finger-counting. I've seen too many early elementary children use it as a habit that they had trouble breaking or that they used to avoid the memorization.
Personally, I would just have her do the flashcards and everything else with the cubes or whatever you use for counters. Last year, I had my first grader do addition problems and flashcards with Cusinaire rods and then after he had done 5 or 6 or so problems, I'd come and look at his "trains" and see how he was doing. I'm a believer in no finger-counting. I wanted my children to "see" the concept in 3D rods or counters before I ever expected them to remember the facts. (My little ones become quite fond of their "counting bears".
Not a math expert, but I have taught 5 kids thru 2nd grade :).
lisaj
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Both these sound really good. Maybe a child could have a choice occasionally. Such as a daily assignment to d0 a RRJ entry which could be omitted 1-2x a week for oral narration. The good thing about the RRJ is that I get so busy hsing 3 (previously 5), just getting thru 5-6 subjects each, that adding another narration might be chore that did not get done.
But, the RRJ would help me as it would help me keep up on what my children are reading.
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I'm not a fan of dual enrollment - esp. if a student is immature in some ways.
I just put my completely homeschooled very young (just turned 16yo, Sept 2nd bday) 11th grader in private school this year. This daughter is also very late puberty-onset. She is our first student (2nd born child) to attend "traditional" school. We have done 2-3 co op classes per year during 9th and 10th grades. I am very happy we have been in co ops. I hope to co op every year of high school with my remaining three as the (good) socializing has been a definite plus!
Academically, she is doing very well. She is struggling with organization but improving every week! Her academics are solid and top of the class in most cases. Socially, it has been troublesome. This private Christian school tends to have the "we've all been together since kindergarten" student groups. This daughter is very late puberty, serious, overly judgmental, quiet, studious and slightly overweight. It has been a difficult transition, socially. She wants to "fit in" (while keeping her uniqueness) but she doesn't know how to do the give-and-take.
It has been a good decision so far. i am wondering if the "social" will get easier.
Lisaj
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Wow, Angela,
That is very helpful. Thank you! What do you do about homework from the previous week? Most of the time when I ask for questions, there are none. Of course, this puzzles me.
I *love* the idea of the scribe.
Thanks!
Lisaj
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I just wanted to chime in that I was also surprised at the lack of rigor offered in my dd's Eng 101 class. However, her Biology 101 class offered the level of rigor I expected for a college class. OTOH, other Eng 101 classes at the same CC seemed much more rigorous.
lisaj
Today is dd's first day of ps
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
FIrst, most higher math texts have answers in the back so they can check their own odds or something.
Second, this is good preparation for college!
Thirdly, my daughter is in 11th grade and in her first year of traditional schooling - she is at a Christian school. SHe is finding out every teacher is different. She is having a hard time keeping it all straight. I take part of the blame, when hsing, I asked for HW and stuff daily/weekly, etc. at home and they didn't have any fun til they turned it in. Daughter is having a hard time keeping track of 6 subjects and 6 policies but it is good for her!!!
I have one at college who never mastered this skill despite *my* best homeschooling efforts and cc classes and once-a-week co op classes. Now she is struggling (I knew she would) at college to keep it all straight!
Lisaj