lovemyboys
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Posts posted by lovemyboys
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I love that SOTW is not American-centric (is that the right word?), but I think I might want to take a pause soon and do a unit just on American history. My DH is in politics and was a history major, so I know our family would have fun with this I am just getting ready to start volume 3. Does anyone have a good spine or book list for or suggestion for beefing up American history? Or maybe someone wants to talk me out of this..I haven't read volumes 3 and 4 cover to cover...will I get enough American history if I do a couple read alouds? thanks!
Some families take the opportunity to do a unit on state's history at this time as well. Guess it might depend on how "young" your state is whether you would incorporate this into v. 3 or 4.
We supplemented a good deal for the American history portion just because there are so many wonderful resources, field trips, family histories, etc. Also depends if your dc are closer to middle-school. Lots of read-alouds as well.
We definitely slowed down to spend more time in parts and sped up with others. You could do as you say and pause for your unit. You've got a great resource right in your own house! :001_smile:
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I've been reading these "evil history book" threads this week with fascination. It may not be needed, but I feel the need to defend the moms on here who DO use these books. Lot's has been shared already, but here's a view from the other side...
1) Some of these details on slavery and occupation (and a slew of other history topics) are very, very sad and very hard to explain to a small child. I agree the "entire" truth needs to be shared as much as possible. But by what age? In my case I've decided to take it gradually, using books that help me set the stage for the time period, and discuss the issues as needed (some of this depends on what other sources we are using) The Courage of Sarah Noble and The Columbus and Sons book are a few of those. For the record, I do not think I'm rearing racists. That would defeat all my educational (and religious) ideals. I also think there are plenty of home schoolers who use these books who are not racists. They are good, kind and honest educators who are committed to helping children become good, kind and honest citizens. I think to demonize a book (or an entire curricula) can improperly place these well-intentioned people in a bad and inaccurate light.
To give an example: My son (7) and I read through D'Aulaire George Washington book. We did this after a fairly complete survey of the Revolutionary War... for a first grader. When we got to the page where GW supposedly chopped down that cherry tree, we had a nice discussion about how that very likely didn't occur and how it came be be in that book (the biography written years after his death, etc.). He is learning not to trust any source completely, but question it and glean from it. I happen to like this process. The question of slavery came up not less than half a dozen times (mostly from the illustrations) and I'm doing my best to answer questions in a gentle manner.
2) These books are rarely used as the sole source of history. They are a small part of a much bigger plan. In a few years, when we approach American History again, I plan on using the Jackdaws original source documents extensively (along with the "evil" TOG or something similar to it). SWB recommended them in TWTM and it seems like a wonderfully honest way of approaching history. She suggests the students answer the following questions after reading the documents:
1) What does the source say?
2) Who is the author? (social position, profession, possible bias, age, other relevant personal facts)
3) What is the writer's purpose?
4) What does the writer gain from persuading his or her listeners of their particular view?
5) What events led to this piece of writing?
6) What happened as a result?
And hopefully I can limit the bias coming from any one source by expanding the pool I pull from. I also do not equate Providential history with a pro-slavery view of history. That is absurd. Maybe I am just stating the obvious and I misread the previous posts (they are beginning to blur). I just felt there are some moms out there who, sadly, need to be defended here... myself included!
Well said. It's a worthy thing to defend the many parents here who use these resources. If we were debating a national curriculum with rigid guidelines and application, it would be a different conversation.
But you make several excellent points (bold) for why homeschoolers aren't confined by those constraints. Intelligent, curious and informed parents are bringing history alive for their kids.
Painting everyone who uses certain resources as depraved, racist, clueless, etc., sounds like authoritarian hyperbole, if I may say so. It ignores historical context and seems rather shrill and uninformed. There's a big difference between having dc read Mein Kampf for historical reference/discussion and using it as a text to indoctrinate them.
But then again, I don't go in for characterizing books that I don't personally care for or use as evil, as if my word should be the final authority. I would not presume to make that assumption for another family. Ime, homeschoolers don't usually go in for that kind of censorship.
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I would never throw stones at someone who was genuinely interested in learning more about history. It's a difficult subject to grasp. Primary source documents are a good place to start.
........
Personally, I use many books that I disagree with for discussion. However, I would not necessarily recommend them to a mom who just handed books off to her kids and didn't discuss them. kwim?
......
I agree with the latter. However, the conquering foe-style slavery was *completely* different from the commercial, institutional slavery instituted to farm plantations in the New World with (almost) free labor.
I wouldn't recommend filtering books in that manner (if you even could), but I know you may not have been arguing with me. ;)
These last two were in response to things I'd posted. And no, they weren't in reference to you at all. I was in another section of the thread and I think your "conversation" was going on later..... no need for concern.
I will say that the comment about slavery was rather in response to someone dealing with younger kids. I don't get into too much detail with a younger child. At most, we cover the commercial triangle which brought so many early slaves to the Southern hemisphere (hence the Spanish/Portuguese languages spoken there) and the later progression northward.
But I will reiterate that I really dislike the idea of anyone judging for others what is/is not appropriate for their homeschool....however well-meaning it may be. We don't get our current day news from one source, I'd like to teach dc to evaluate and explore history from more than one source as well. Nobody's right 100% of the time.
Anyway, interesting discussion. :001_smile:
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Thank you for the thoughtful comments. I find so many of the books touted by CM fans to be so outdated, with such a fixation on depicting non-Europeans as savages and/or weirdos:
It would seem very strange to you to be perched up so high on a camel's back, but Gemila is quite accustomed to it.
"Gemila, the Child of the Desert" chapter
even Margaret Morley's The Bee People (p 91), ostensibly a book about bees:
Basketless, stingless, with no honeysac, and no serviceable nectar-gathering tongue, he is almost as helpless as a Chinese lady.
Only she is purposely made helpless, and he is born so.
A Chinese girl baby has as good feet as any baby, and they would grow as large as other people's if it were not the fashion for the mothers to squeeze the poor little tootsie-wootsies into small ugly shoes that hurt the babies terribly and make them as cross as crabs. It serves their mothers right, too, when they are cross. Think of crippling them all their lives so they can neither work nor do anything useful.
The cumulative effect of these sorts of descriptions is other than humanizing.
I'm not familiar with these books, so I can only refer to the excerpts you include here.
I think it strongly depends on the conversations that you have if you use these books. SWB has sections in SOTW that tell of the ancient (Aztecs?) tying a bead to the baby's hair to dangle in front of his eyes and boxing in his young head resulting in a cross-eyed, square-headed king (the ideal). Does that look like a crazy cruel custom to our 21st century eyes? Certainly. As with much of history, there are many things we disagree with today. But to read it and judge the peoples of those times by our standards and sensibilities is pointless and absurd, really.
Someone mentioned considering the Battle of Okinawa in Truman's decision wrt the bombs. It also merits discussion that there were days in between the two bombs in which Hirohito could've decided to save his people. He didn't.
You also don't lay out the nittygritty details of what slavery "looked like" with a 1st grader. It's enough for them to hear that the conquering tribe/foe often sold their captives into slavery -- world over.
And in our house, this sometimes leads to discussions of "man's inhumanity to man" which is in our human nature. Since the beginning of time, again world over.
So I get a bit weary of the evil European/American white male schtick too. That's just the past 500 years or so. And the evil in the last 500 years has not been exclusive to that group by any means.
When we study history, we try to find original sources. As Sophia said, we always have a couple books going. We read from a variety of points of view and discuss them.
If I filter all the books/info my dc ever see to be only from the pov I agree with (regardless of what it is), how do dc learn to deal with conflicting information or new ideas?
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You from Santa Barbara County? That happened there a long time ago..a boy was murdered and the kids that did it (I think his name was even Jesse James:glare:) went to Mexico...found out later after extradition that his parents were giving him money. No way would I do that.
In the case presented by the poster yes, I would turn them in if they didn't themselves. It would be difficult and I would hate having to do it but I would.
No, MidAtlantic then. How sad is that that there are such similar crimes and reactions going on... :(
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I think it would depend upon what crime was commited.
Exactly.
About a decade ago, we watched in horror as a family in our metro area whisked their teen away to the safety of another country after their child had murdered and then incinerated someone, then hid the body in a house down the street. No matter how much I love my child, I'm not sure I'd be able to protect him if he were capable of that.
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I'd have to say yes, with books everywhere, a microscope out, etc.
YES! That and all the things we collect to look at under the microscope, do projects with, explore. Plus lots of pens, pencils, colored pencils. And the books, always the books. We don't do the maps or boards on walls upstairs because we have basement walls, but all the other stuff gives it away. ; )
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My reaction when I read the opening line is ...
Why not?
Our experience has been that we've always been blessed with a real mix of friends, including some kids with Downs, aspergers and other developmental challenges. As a result, fortunately, dc are compassionate and patient playmates especially with younger kids.
With the ages involved and the low response, my guess would be that people are concerned with behavior issues -- some kid do have self-control issues at those young ages. But that wouldn't keep me away.
Perhaps you could emphasize those benefits while addressing concerns and sharing plans for alleviating perceived issues.
:001_smile:
A young adult at our church is trying to start a playgroup for kids ages 4-7 in which kids who are "typically developing" are paired with kids who are not typically developing (ie may have high functioning autism, etc.) in a "playtime" atmosphere, with each pair supervised by a trained volunteer. The purpose of the playgroup is to help the kids connect with one another relationally. It's obvious to the parents of the atypically-developing kids why this would benefit their child and a good number of those kids have signed up. We haven't had any typically developing kids sign up though.If your child is "typically developing", would you see any benefits to your child being involved in this group (ie would you see the opportunity to expand your child's social/relational horizons to kids that are "different" as a benefit to your child?)
What would your concerns be about having your child join a group like that?
Your feedback could be really useful in helping us communicate with parents of typically-developing kids about benefits of participation and alleviate any concerns in our communication. Thanks so much for your help!
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My husband had the open classroom thing in 1st grade. 3 classes--90 kids!--with 3 teachers. He says it was very very noisy, and everyone got sick a lot. My elem. school built a whole new jr. high with 'pods' that had 4 connected classrooms and a central place for the teacher to work. I shudder to think what it must have been like, but pretty soon they built walls.
Amazingly, open classrooms are STILL being promoted as the wave of the future in some places. One of my favorite education bloggers said this a while back:
Imagine anyone with dyslexia, aspergers, sensory-processing issues....many of which were undiagnosed in those days. :glare: Those were just a mess for all kids -- the chaos, noise level, distractions, lack of focus on one subject, often (always?) sitting on floors or carpetted tiers rather at desks.
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Have you read things like Climbing Parnassus which makes the case for truly classical education? There's also the Latin-Centered Curriculum which gives an overview of the traditional classical education followed with a how-to list of schedules and resources.
LCC is a quick read, well done packed with lots of info, CP is deeper but really inspirational.
I think that's where I'd start.
:001_smile:
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Did you read that somewhere, Carrie? I didn't see any of those things mentioned in the LA Times.
Unfortunately now they're rerunning the video of that revolting kiss at the convention every time they mention this news.
:blink: :ack2:
I read they're calling these the new "grey divorces" -- growing apart in their 60s and 70s after decades of marriage. :001_huh:
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I don't think it's a requirement that freedom of speech be in good taste. ...... Protesting this seems to be in a lot better taste than the group that pickets military funerals .....
We've certainly seen that freedom of speech is often not good taste and/or poor timing.
As to your second point about the protests, I can't imagine there are 50 people in the entire country who agree with this ridiculous evil group.
Seriously.
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Yes, thank you to all who serve, have served and support those who serve. You make our country great and give all of us the ability to live freely.
:001_smile: :001_smile: :001_smile: :001_smile:
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I've heard this, but I've searched for those studies and can't come up with much. I know there were some Head Start studies that showed the gains they made in preschool disappeared by about 3rd grade. I think that's because they were put into schools that probably weren't very good.
And if there are actual studies, I doubt that they were done with gifted kids. Or homeschooled kids. :)
I'll look back to see if I can find you a link since you're interested. I'll try to find the one about the role that strategy games have in creative thinking.
Meanwhile, the overall point in my post was that OP's 2 yo will do so well with time to play and explore rather than doing worksheets for the next few years. Creative play can be underrated.
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****waving white flag****
All day every day we're cleaning up some dog-related mess. We have 3 non-shedders and one lab, so it's not the hair so much. It's the endless amounts of dirt, mud, grass, leaves, and twigs these critters bring in.
How old are your dc? Give them each a pet-related cleaning job and make your life a little easier. :)
Then sit back with your beverage of choice and wave your white flag with me.:D
Then you've got the occasional flea or tick (regardless of those collars and sprays)......
Yes, it's possible, but it's a whole lot more work. And it was easier before dc too.
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There *are* some really great people and kiddos in the group. This is what is so frustrating, J is already forming friendships and I *really* want this to work out.
Is is really that hard to be on time???
This is frustrating. Sounds like this is the culture of this group.
So you either accept that fact and make it work for you....i.e. plan on getting to the activity 10-15 min. after the official start time which would get there shortly before the actual start time.
Try that and see if it works. Otherwise you're just beating your head against a wall.
Keep in mind that the type of activity will affect timing too -- park days and other outdoor activities are often looser, while seminars, field trips (involving tour guides), museum tours and classes have a tighter time frame.
Agree with others here, don't punish ds by getting him all excited for an event, getting there, setting a(n arbitrary) time and then leaving. That was ok for the first time or two, but now you know this group and their "habits." For ds's sake, either adjust your expectations or find another group.
As to the time thing, I struggle with that too. I'll find myself doing a lesson and discussion ensues, math problems take more time to complete, grammar hits a snag, someone doesn't feel well, we have to change clothes to go out, we have to eat or pack lunch, we have to collect materials, equipment, supplies for the get-together. For the families with preschoolers, Mom has to do a lot of hands-on. For the families with older dc, there's lots of shepherding and reminding.
If you do like the people (adults + kids) in this group, that's huge. So many groups are not a good match. Try to be understanding with them and adjust your timing... I don't mean to go and sit around for an hour, just allow for the lag time and delayed starts.
Exchange cell numbers with a few key people so you can check on their timing. Yes it might seem a pain, like you're enabling people who aren't prompt schedulers. Put yourself in their shoes, with multiple kids, organizing responsibilities, whatever, and try to be patient and gracious with them.
Good luck. Finding a group that's a good match is really lovely. Hope it works for you and ds.
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I think you're talking too much. That's too wordy for a 2 year old to follow. I'd just say, "Get the book," and point to it. And I'd still expect her to not always get it right.
You're asking her to do something developmentally inappropriate.
Honestly? She's two. She doesn't need workbooks or "seatwork" or "busywork." Lots of play and exploration, indoors and out, sandboxes, water play with containers, chalk, balls.
I'm sure you're excited to get going with learning, etc., or you wouldn't be here already. Best to put the books aside and just enjoy the toddlerhood. She's learning every day.
Fwiw, studies have shown that the kids who are early-learners or accelerated before the age of 6 or 8, pretty much even out with their age-mates by the age of 9. In addition, kids who learn through play, games, sports, board games, card games, exploration are much better in creative thinking, strategy, problem-solving as they mature.
Agree with Tara here, showing is good teaching. Sometimes more words just confuse, even with older kids.
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What I've seen in blogs, articles and news reports is that the phrase "different kinds of kids" is short-hand for people of a different race than you. They think that if you are not in a forced mixed race setting of a public school that you will never mingle with someone "different from you." I think that is nonsense, but then in our inter-racial house we sort of have it covered!
:lol: So I'm guessing you don't get that particular question. : )
We've been fortunate that our friends and homeschool friends/groups have always been pretty varied by age, etc. Dh's work environment and our living environments have also been quite varied.
What people don't think about when they ask those questions is that if you're raising decent nice children, they'll be fine in a wide variety of situations.
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Well, I was a huge tomboy. I was also a cheerleader and homecoming queen. (go ahead, laugh, it's true). Debutante, sorority gal. Can't tomboys be feminine as easily as quiet boys can be masculine? Yes? No?
Love this!!!
I love multi-faceted people. Much more interesting to be around.
Fwiw I have a quiet manly guy who still continues to surprise me after all these years. I'd vote a definite yes. Still waters run deep and all that.
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Well, yanno, I would never gone there, but a senior poster assured us that homeschooling mamas were wrecking boys & turning 'em into sissies. ERGO - homeschooling mamas are responsible for those shrewish girls too.
Should I mention the homeschool moms who don't bother teaching their teen girls higher math since they won't be using it anyway?
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Threaten to go in and scrub him yourself ;) that would scare one of my kids into doing a better job.
That's all it took one of mine. ;) The one that was routinely forgetting that there was shampoo in the shower.
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I know, I've been living under a rock. But, I just have not had the time to sit and watch a movie. So, this week, we used Netflix and got Star Trek and Avatar.
Avatar made me mad. Not sure why, but I just felt angry at the end of that movie
Star Trek was cute. Not sure if I like the Uhura/Spock romantic link though. And I don't understand how they could have killed Spock's mother, she had a roll later in his life. The whole time warp thing was very confusing. If the younger Spock's planet was destroyed, then how could the older Spock's life played out? Dh said I'm thinking too much......
Any other movies I've missed and need to add to my queue?
:lol: I noticed that one too, Holly. Saw this in a theatre with friends and we laughed out loud at some of the classic phrases. Great fun.
Haven't seen Avatar yet....not sure I'm interested in giving the king of the world more money.
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Song lyrics would probably give you a number of catchy recognizable phrases.
Ay dios mio.
Vaya con dios.
Ah chihuahua.
We say some of the ones already mentioned. But then we say lots of foreign phrases and movie lines.
:001_smile:
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Wow. Where do you live? (wondering if it will be spreading our way any time soon....)
Kids love 'em and they have just expended a good deal of energy but I do get so tired of them. One ds here has aged out of that. :001_smile:
Not sure if this is an OK topic but is anyone concerned about the Israel incident?
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
He's an opinion columnist/commentator, she was theoretically a reporter. Not defending Buchanan because I'm not a fan of his, but he does have a different job title.