Yes, I thought about that this year, too. So I'm going to start incorporating Hebrew copywork and dictation next year from the Siddur (prayer book) and from the Bible; possibly from the Hebrew version of the Jerusalem Post that we will be using next year. I'd love for them to use famous speeches and sayings from past statesmen and Rabbis as copywork just as we do for English. When they get to a good place in their (future) Latin and Greek studies, I'll use those methods also. Rachel

I forgot to mention that I'll be starting Music of the Hemispheres next year with my 5th and 4th gr. and hopefully continue with the Poetics Program through untill the end. Blessings to you, Rachel

Hi! I subscribe to a mainly CM philosophy with Classical leanings. Our LA sequence has been and will be in the future thus: 2nd-4th-Primary Language Lessons, done mostly orally. oral narration, copywork 4th-6th - Intermediate Language Lessons, written and oral start written narrations, copywork, dictation 5th- add in Meaningful Composition to prepare for Bar and Bat Mitzvah training (it requires book reports, so I'm preparing them a year in advance) If going well, continue w/Meaningful Composition (MC) and written narrations 7th & 8th Our Mother Tongue (OMT) following the 2 year plan per AO's recommendation. I don't think I'll have to use MC all the way through to 12th. There's a resource called Writer's Inc.that I plan to use as soon as I think they have enough of the foundation down to just need a resource to check themselves and mature; I am assuming by 9th grade, if not sooner, I'll drop MC and just continue with Writer's INc. (perhaps Write for College) and OMT as referrel/correcting resources and continue with written narrations, oral narrations, and other compositions. I really see no reason to continue feeding them with curriculum that teaches a finite subject; plus writing is so easily integrated in Literature and History subjects; it doesn't need to be a separate subject. To simplify and have them be more independant is my goal (not to mention less curriculum saves money). They will both be continuing in their Hebrew studies and will have been taking Latin since 5th grade; then they'll be beginning Greek in HS. So that's another reason I will not be drilling them in a rigorous grammar course; all of these things in combination will be plenty. Hopefully that answers your question, Rachel

I have always been an excellent reader and I HATE unscrambling words; always have hated it. The word on the page is the word I see-period. I do wonderfully in wordfinds and scrabble and fair at crosswords. My son is the same way as is my mom. I see words in my head, so it's a lost cause if the word is scrambled. I wouldn't worry about it. It's a good idea to work on the skill without the pressure of a game, if you deem it necessary; but I look at it like this: there's so much I want them to learn that is valuable long-term, so I don't see the worth in pursuing some things when it doesn't effect their intelligence and industry regarding their future, IMO. Just my thoughts, Rachel

I'd like to add Developmental Mathematics to this list. I'm not so sure about Singapore, though. It seems to need extra review from the people I've known who have used it (like TT-it's not mastery, I don't care what they say). Rachel

I can answer the part about ages. The website says that it can be started at grade 4. So both of yours can use it: http://www.memoriapress.com/images/book_insides/WhichLatinProgram.pdf Rachel

Are you interested in Modern or Biblical Hebrew? What is the goal? My children have used the materials from Behrman House for 3 and 4 years now; I have learned along with them and use adult BH materials myself successfully. Plus, I label items around the house with their Hebrew counterparts and have Hebrew speaker's music. BH is so incremental that it's easy to learn alongside. However, BH is Modern Hebrew. I understand that if you learn Modern first (as an English speaker), it's much easier to learn Biblical later. The comparison made are the differences between modern English and the English of Shakespeare; with a little training on the differences and usage, it is fairly simple transition. Though they will be translating Biblical materials starting next year, (Linear Chumash and their Bar/Bat Mitzvah classes), my plan is to officially switch them to a Biblical Hebrew study come High School. I don't know of any children's materials for Biblical Hebrew with a parent who is not a native Hebrew speaker. I don't know if I've helped any:confused:. I do know that Easy Hebrew is a good program, from those in my Synagogue. If you do a search on Hebrew here, you will get much good advice by those who are native speakers; I can only share my positive experiences as a non-native Hebrew speaker learning and teaching children to be able to communicate in Israel and to read Biblical/liturgical materials. Rachel

Hard copies are published through Lost Classics Books: http://lostclassicsbooks.com/catalog/6 However, I've always bought mine via Amazon. You can use them with or without the workbooks (teacher's guide), depending upon your purpose. They are a wonderful collection. My children are on Level 3 and 4 and they've read them from the beginning. HTH, Rachel

I recommend using All Through the Ages by Christine Miller. Using books to read along, or have your children read, within the time period you're studying. http://www.nothingnewpress.com/atta.shtml The book is broken up according to time periods, grades and into overview, specific events, bios, historical fiction, literature, and culture. IN the back of the book, is a section specifically on the History of science, with book suggestions broken up into the above sub-topics. Supplementing with books about someone during that time period is much easier and "contextual" than a separate curriculum, IMO. I hope I explained that well enough! Rachel

I have it. You use it with Phonics Made Plain from Mott Media (scroll down): http://www.mottmedia.com/pages/publications.asp?Pub=phonics The ABC'S... is keyed to Phonics Made Plain. I have the chart on my wall. It has been very helpful as a reference tool; there's so much I didn't know. I bought it cheaply through Amazon used. It does require teacher efforts; you basicly need to find the best way to implement it in your own home, IMO. HTH, Rachel

I would say the activity book isn't necessary unless you have a child who likes busy work and/or needs the extra reinforcement if languages don't come easy to them (my dd is like that, my ds isn't). Also, you don't have to buy the Clashcards as the flashcards are free at the website. http://classicalacademicpress.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=16 BTW, you can get the items cheaper through Amazon and Christianbook. HTH, Rachel

I second the Treadwell readers that are available for free at Baldwin Books or can be bought at Yesterday's Classics (anything at YC for any age group is awesome-love that company!). The other I would suggest are the Elson readers from Lost Classics. Rachel

:iagree: I have this attitude regarding my homeschooling as well. There are only a few HSl'ers in my shul's Congregation, the Rabbi's family being of them, so that's helpful! However, I like to inquire here as well for resources; besides I'm sort of a resource/catalog addict anyway. My husband's grandparents were murdered in Nazi Germany, then their son, his father, was transported around from family to family, finally landing in America, becoming an angry and secular man; so therefore, my husband has no family teachings or resources passed down to him that he can pass down to use in our training of our children. :sad: So I'm not only building up a library for us to use, but for them to use with their own. BTW, do you have any materials or traditions for Counting the Omer, besides the Blessing and actual nightly counting? A way to make it more "visual"? Just sitting around last night and wondering (while awaiting my dd to settle down after her chocolate seder :D). Since we're almost finished with Seymour Rossel's children's history series, I've been putting together a chronological listing of (mostly) Jewish history resources, mainly in the form of historical fiction, but bios, too. I like to lay out a scope and sequence for our subjects. When I get it all together, would you like for me to share it? Rachel

Just taking a quick breather from standing to address this so we can go into tonight without anything "hanging out there". I am absolutely not offended and I appreciate your sensitivity. There's a difference in the terminology which is distinctive and bears some explanation; Messianic Judaism has been/is a Jewish led movement, not a gentile one, as the Christian church was/is (well, from about the 2nd cen. on); however, I am trying to keep my mind focused on HaShem and am trying not to pulled away from the importance of this night and this week. So I'll look forward to meeting up again Wed. with a more thorough explanation! Shalom and be Blessed! Rachel :001_smile:

Hebrew is always pronounced with the vowels, while we may discuss as to whether they are to be written or not, in which circumstances yes and in which no. The differences in pronunciation which are a product of two millenia of galut are not theologically binding in any way. This was a completely superfluous piece of information, apparent to me & most, if not all those participating if they have even a passing familiarity w/Hebrew. I was not charging that the different pronunciations were binding, nor was I expressing confusion about Hebrew in general. I think you missed my point entirely. The problem arises with people who have not bothered to learn that, say, yud hey vav key (yes, I purposely misspelled the last one) is not to be pronounced, that certain numbers are to be calculated on a tet basis and not a yud basis, etc. Again I agree & I refer you to my original post expressing shared frustration; hence my use of the phrase, “I understand...â€. One can have a cultural affinity for Catholicism without subscribing to their theology - or, even, consider their theology the most sound one within Christianity, but still without subscribing. That is called "entertaining the idea without accepting it". I said I was “amazedâ€, not ignorant of the principle of "entertaining the idea without accepting it", a phrase that came across as a little snide. My words were: “I can understand the attraction to the beauty of the rituals and structured prayers;â€. It'd be absurd for me to assume you subscribed to their theology. God did not reveal Himself through the Bible, from a classical Jewish perspective. Rather, He revealed Himself AND gave the Torah. Big difference. I'll submit to that correction as being more precise, in the revelation of Himself & as the “giver of the Torahâ€. Not everything an ethnic Jew writes is automatically "a Jewish book", a theologically acceptable one, let alone a binding one. True, however, I was speaking about the entirety of the Bible, not just any book; of which the Tanakh is the majority. Considering the authors as being merely ethnically Jews does them a great disservice. Even without excepting the content in the Brit Chadashah, from a strictly academic & historical view, one can't honestly declare those authors as merely ethnically Jewish either; especially one author who was a talmid of Rabbi Gamaliel and a Pharisee himself. Nobody is denying Jesus' ethnicity. In the 1st cen. and in recent history, that is true. However, for most of these 2000 yrs, if his ethnicity wasn't outrightly denied (it was by some), the manner of presentation by the church, diminished or denied it and he was separated from his heritage; in his appearance: instead of Sephardi features and dress, he looked like a Greek god with blonde hair and blue eyes. As to his intentions for Judaism , you wouldn't know it by Christian theology that he “didn't come to abolish the Law and the Prophetsâ€; the entire context of his life being interpreted from a Greek vantage point and his “followers†throughout history attempting to destroy his own people in his name! All of those elements combined to depict a different ethnicity. People are denying the soundness of his ideas and him being Messiah with what they consider Judaism. And some other people, like you, are accepting of those idea others deny. So we get differences, and that is fine. Apparently, the differences aren't fine. Otherwise, Messianic Jews in Israel wouldn't be physically assaulted and harassed from their Jewish brethren or families denied their rights as Jews by out-dated Halakha; we have DNA now that is over 90% accurate. Lastly, these should be "arguments for the sake of heaven" and bind us together, stengthening the Community; not cause turn Jew against Jew, dividing and weakening. Within the Pirkei Avot it says: A controversy for heaven's sake will have lasting value, But a controversy not for heaven's sake will not endure May this controversy have lasting value. Chag Pesach sameach! Happy Passover Holiday! Rachel

Although this is a direct response to Ester Maria's post, I hope any other visitors will take the time to read the originals and their responses. I appreciate the time, Ester Maria, that you took to respond to my post. Thanks again for your welcome; I am well accustomed to a variety of opinions in all of my relationships, be they online or in person. I hope you will honor me with reading my response to you; my words are in bold for ease of reading, not a display of importance. I am dividing into two messages. I won't be replying any more on this specifically, so as not to further deviate from the OPs original purpose. As for Rachel, we will just have to agree to disagree - suffice to say that what you write is a sacrilege to my eyes (from a purely visceral reaction to an intellectual level) while I am sure that you would find my views equally appalling. On some things, yes, that's true we'll agree to disagree. However, I am disapointed that you could not find areas of common ground & agreement with me, as it does exist & I made it known in my post. I do not find your views appalling at all. I will continue to warn and educate my children against views like yours and Karis', while I am sure that you will do at least some of the same with your children when it comes to the 'institution' of rabbinical Judaism that we inherit today... I fully expect you to instruct your children according to Deut. 6 with zeal. Secular assimilation and conversion to Christianity isn't part of HaShem's plan for you or your children, IMO; but for you to be all that He declared for you in the Tanakh. I have no desire to “warn†my children, as you describe it, against rabbinical Judaism. I will strive to educate them to delight in the Torah, have familiarity with Talmud, to know their heritage & history, to read for themselves and ask questions, & respect rabbinical authority; but above all seek to please Adonai above man & have Him, in their lives, the way King David referred to Him as “the stronghold of my lifeâ€. I will raise them on the importance of our Community; as a resutl they would embrace your children as being mishpachah (family). ...and when it comes to what you probably perceive as its unjust historical 'monopoly' over the interpretation of an ancient text and oral tradition (I have known people who held such views). This view has never crossed my mind & in all my years, I've never known anyone who thought this way. 1. Talmud is not "extra-Scriptural" law. Jewish "Scripture" is two-fold, the written and the oral 'text', and they are considered equivalent parties, two sides of the same coin. There is no dichotomy there. I understand that. Similarly (not exactly), is the sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture of Roman Catholicism; & not all of Christianity agrees with that just as not all of Judaism agrees with the acceptance of the equality of texts either. For us (in my shul specifically), the oral Torah is valued & many traditions are followed, rabbinical authority is highly respected; however, it is the words of the Torah that are as “ a tree of lifeâ€. Oral law doesn't rise to an equal status; as you know, since the Haskalah (Enlightenment), Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist & Karaite Judaism have dealt with this issue, too. 2. Paternal lineage is relevant to the transmission of certain statuses / tribal minutiae, not to the transmission of Jewishness as such. It's a Halakha that needs reviewing when Gaddafi can become an Israeli citizen & those who are descendants of Jews, & are devoted to Judaism cannot. Israel's Right of Return Jewish standard isn't as narrow (rightly so), though that causes problems with the Chief Rabbinate, I know. Reality is if your children & my children were before a violent anti-semite; they would not refer to halakha on this issue to determine if they were Jewish enough to be murdered. Same goes for a non-violent anti-semite in their choice of discriminatory behaviors. There are non-Orthodox sects which accept people with a Jewish father as well. Yes, citing the marriages of Joseph, Moses, & the aforementioned Ruth, in addition to verses from Torah. Orthodoxy does not consider those sects valid theologically nor, consequently, their conversions valid or children born into families where maternal lineage cannot be traced back even Jewish (nor, consequently, their marriages valid, further children Jewish, etc. - it is a very sad thing and many people get shocked and hurt upon learning that they are not considered Jewish by the Orthodox criteria). Yes, it is sad. And there is also such a thing as intellectual recognition of Jewish Orthodoxy, but selective observance (or non-observance, for that matter)... So there is such a thing as teaching Orthodoxy as a sort of "Jewish outlook", but leaving the amount of observance or questions of religiosity or atheism to an individual. Yes, I am aware of this concept. OP's blog post was an intellectually honest piece of writing which does not sugarcoat things nor apply standards of "unity" for a religious system which is not interested in full religious "unity" with the rest of the world. My use of the word “unity†was not meant as you seemed to take it. I am sorry for not being clearer. I am not the least bit interested in achieving unity w/the rest of the world. Perhaps a better way of phrasing it would have been that her presentation, not the legitimacy of her frustrations, of her concerns displayed condescension; one can be “intellectually honest†without being haughty. IMO, the tone exhibited, restricted the intent of the OP's beautiful desire to be “a light to the nationsâ€, reflecting the heart attitude of Isaiah 49:6. I believe education and respect is the answer, not ridicule. Judaism is a binary system: there is Israel, and there are umot haolam. Yes, I am aware of the Noachide Laws as well. This does not say that other people do not have a right to celebrate whatever they wish in whichever (non-violent) fashion they wish. What they do not have a right to is an expectation that other people will not consider those things wrong and actively warn against them. I never said that & I actually defend, to others, your position on the matter the best I can (excepting those who act out violently), because I have some understanding of where you are coming from, whether you know it or not. I agree re: an expectation & I don't believe that I have the right to expect others to agree with anything I choose; that'd be foolish and futile. to be continued...

Since I've seen this twice, I'd thought I would try to clarify that there is no such thing as a Messianic Christian, it's actually a contradiction in terms; you're either a Christian or you're a Messianic Jew or Gentile. As for the 2 Thess. quote, that's a good one. It was coming from a committed, zealous Jewish man, from the Tribe of Benjamin, a Pharasee, a student of Gamaliel, originally a persecutor of any believers of Yeshua, instructing the Community he established (as a Pharasee he was well trained in proselyte management). The "traditions" are those of Judaism, not Christianity, that he passed down to them to follow, which would have included those from the Talmud, or the "Traditions of the Elders", that he believed did not contradict the written text (and from the perspective that with any traditions, assuring the heart is in the actions, that they are not just external only) He went back to Abraham, not just Moses. He lived by example and was that Community's rabbinical authority. Thanks for bringing that one up; it shows another point of agreement.:001_smile: Rachel

:iagree: Rachel

Should Passover-observing Christians start their own thread? I'd like to think Christians can learn from resources on Jewish sites, just as I've incorporated some Exodus information into our Pesach lapbook from Christian sites. You will probably find good, accurate, agenda-free information about Passover from Jewish sites, so if anybody is honestly looking for that, they should feel free to use these links and share their own I agree that "Christians can learn from resources on Jewish sites", and they should seek info. there; but with all due respect, they all have an agenda, too. From Hassidic sites to Humanist sites; they all present it from their own theological viewpoint. So, as with anything, go into it with the open eyes that the position of the presenters will have a bent in their favor; it's like that in everything. Personally, I like much on Chabad.org and use thier online materials and videos for my children. Rachel

I just thought I would chime in that after speaking with BH, it was recommended, and I concur, to use a book called Contemporary Hebrew. It's a one-volume, self-teaching book for high school and adults and contains very specific grammar teaching, lessons and drills. The directions are in English, so that simplifies my teaching (and learning:)) Thank you for your help! Rachel

I'm sorry I don't know what ages your children are, but Developmental Mathematics is an excellent program, esp. for those with engineering/analytical mindsets, only needing Measurements and clock work (from MM) and some extra word problems supplemented, if you really feel like you have to, it has word problems. It introduces algabraic concepts early and is mastery based. I've used it with my son from the beginning (he's 10.5); it has a different scope and sequence than normal spiral programs. The other I would recommend is Math Mammoth; again a mastery based program; a little more understandable for an artistic mindest and with learning problems (my artsy, dd w/SID struggled in DM) but is thorough. For both, only an abacus was used. Both are void of religious references. You will have to find another program for upper level math, however. HTH, Rachel

:lol:, too *though you may enjoy free wine more than the cake?:001_smile:

Oops, yes, that's correct, the directions are in english (that's what I get for not looking at the book before I make a statement). Yes, I do understand that ShI is Modern Hebrew; there's not a huge difference between the modern and the Biblical; not enough, IMO, to warrant concern anyway. It's like taking Latin and then wanting to learn another romance language; one already has the basis (not that Mod. Heb. is the basis for Biblical, it's not, but you know what I mean), so the transition will not be painful. I plan on providing him with more Biblical Hebrew specific materials when he's in high school. Plus, he'll be receiving instruction for 2 years through his bar mitzvah classes starting in Aug. I've also looked at Chumash translating materials that you mentioned and one that is linear by Pesach Goldberg. I also noticed the Navi workbooks. There's also the student edition linear Tanakh from JPS I'm looking at getting for us. I am looking for good reading materials for practice as he has reached the level where he needs more practice. I found some options from the sites provided by your sources as well as from others. I have the Artscroll children's Book of Ruth that I am going to have him begin on after our break (beginning of May) hiding the English part, then do Pirkei Avot leading up to Shavuot. Can you tell I'm in planning mode?:001_smile: I will have to decide how to give him more grammar drill and practice. Rachel

Shalom Ivrit is completely in Hebrew and I have to translate along with him. However, there's a teacher's guide. So the worktexts being 100% Hebrew is doable. My only concern is the scope and sequence of vocabulary from Behrman House may be different than that of Yesadot Halashon and Lashon HaTorah, being different publishers and curriculum you run that risk. He enjoys his Hebrew and I don't want to mess that up. So I'm still thinking:banghead:. I called BH to get some input from them and will look at what they recommended, too. Rachel