Yes, however, my main point is its just not as in one's face nor does it interface their lives daily in the workplace unless they choose to engage in those things themselves. While on school campuses its a totally different thing especially since kids are forced to 'dorm' together when living on campus. There is a lot of peer pressure in those environments which many students alike would rather not engage in. Include in that the elementary playground which is both ridiculous and reality for many.

Thank you, Mark!!! :hurray: I wish we could edit our titles as well. I'm very glad we can edit posts. Many times I'm typing really fast while doing other things, then need to go back later and correct typos, etc...

Doh!!! Yes, I guess I was tired when I created the thread last night. And unfortunately this forum doesn't allow one to edit the title. Oh well, hopefully folks will still respond even though it is a year off. lol :lol:

This is part of the craziness in our schools which do not reflect professional life once one graduates and starts their job. Can you imagine your coworkers smoking weed and selling drugs to each other during the break? At least for most workplaces this is not common due to corporate policies on drug use, etc... In fact many jobs require drug testing. Yet we have elementary school (and college) behaviors occurring regularly which are totally unacceptable in the common workplace. I'm not at all saying adults don't engage in drug use, alcoholism, smoking pot, etc... Its just not as open, celebrated and in one's face as it is while growing up and going to school. At least its not in most professional environments. Something is wrong with this picture.

I think an easier way to get him involved is to peak his interest in Data Science which a truly a multidisciplinary area of study which can include a lot of complex mathematical algorithms. Some of those are used to perform predictive analytics. The math involved with some of it can make my head spin. Some of our data scientists use it to help predict outcomes. Here are a few related links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_geometry http://proceedings.mlr.press/v32/suna14.pdf Here's an article entitled The Mathematics of Machine Learning. And this one: SCIENTIFIC DATA HAS BECOME SO COMPLEX, WE HAVE TO INVENT NEW MATH TO DEAL WITH IT. Berkeley actually has been doing a lot of work and research in these areas of data science. Take a look at this: https://data.berkeley.edu/

Hello, I was wondering what types of internships some of you may be looking into for this coming Summer? Or if your kids have done them before, what was your experience? Was it worth it and would you do it again if the opportunity presented itself? Our son is 16 and has applied to his first internship. We sort of stumbled upon this through a friend. Its through the Science and Engineering Apprenticeship Program (SEAP) which is sponsored by the Navy. The application process was pretty formal. Apparently its very competitive with many more applicants than there are openings. So while hopeful, we will continue to explore other opportunities until we hear back. Our son interviewed with the researchers today who met with all the applicants (~70) that made the first cut. This will be held at the Naval Post Graduate School (NPS) which isn't far from us. They ask that the students live within driving distance of their various facilities. Though it seemed some were applying from outside the area after speaking with some of the parents. We would prefer to find local opportunities since this will be our son's first real job. We've heard that some of the students who don't get a slot find volunteer opportunities to work on research or other projects at the university. If you are considering internships, would you also consider some outside your immediate area? I haven't really discovered any others locally yet. But I still have more research to do.

Yes, I've been hearing something similar from some of the students at UCSC. Some of them have no interest in smoking pot and find other like minded students to hang out with, study, etc... There's just no getting around the fact that it will be present and so they'll get somewhat accustomed to in the dorms and around the campus. I've heard different dorms definitely have their own personalities, some more into the larger party scene, etc... Off campus can also be a good option for students if a group of friends can share a place with similar preferences such as no pot in the house. In our case, there is even the possibility of commuting.

Its pretty bad at UCSD and UCI. I have friends and family members attempting to get their classes to graduate. Many are having problems completing their 4 year degrees in 5 which is the limit the schools will allow. Here's one article talking about the population explosion on these campuses which are continuing to bloat in size: Tidal wave of enrollment hits UC San Diego, UC Irvine. At some point you have to ask if its really worth it with programs which are this impacted. Apparently thousands of students still think it is.

Arcadia, there is nothing about '4/20 Day' that is unique to UCSC. It's actually celebrated across the nation on 'many' college campuses, city parks, etc... Let's face reality, pot is everywhere including all of our top campuses. In fact, according to one survey students smoke more pot at UCSB, UCLA, UC Berkeley, Virginia Tech, Brown, Princeton and Yale than at UCSC. Its just an old stereotype that is not unique at all to UCSC compared to countless others which most parents have no problem sending their kids to. Regarding the trees, yes, they are plentiful on campus, especially the redwoods. I can see how someone with tree allergies would have to be careful. Though I've never heard of anyone with allergies to redwoods, I'm sure its possible. I didn't see any cherry blossom there. I don't think they're native to the area.

Based upon a brief look, it appears that it varies by state and even school in some cases. There seems to be the desire for more reporting though I'm not sure if it would even be a national law vs. state decision. Here is one that some were trying to pass for New Jersey: New Jersey lawmaker wants to require colleges to disclose each year how many students attempt take their own lives. From 2014, so things may have changes some: "There is no legal mandate requiring institutions of higher learning to disclose a student death to a campus community. The decision is basically up to the individual college. Additionally, there is no agency that ultimately collects data and reports from universities. This is largely because of to the criminal nature of the death reports and investigations, said Virginia Powell, an investigator with the Virginia Violent Death Reporting System." Colleges’ Student-Suicide Reporting Varies

I know that is what comes to a lot folks minds who know the area, remember the 60s/70s and some of the protests. But when you actually look at all the academics and research they are doing its really cool stuff. We visited the campus including the Baskin school of Engineering are were impressed with it overall. Though it was just a short visit. I'd like to take another trip to sit in on some classes, etc... Speaking of stigmas, UC Berkeley is another that falls into that category especially given the recent protests, riots, etc... Still, that doesn't take away from the quality of their academic programs nor the research being conducted. Not every student is out there going crazy in the streets. lol :tongue_smilie: After reading fairly extensively about it and hearing from both alumni and employers, students haven't been negatively affected by those notions. Many have gone to do great things without hindrances.

Yes, in state, affordable and 'not impacted' are very challenging here when combined together. Sometimes something has to give. Pick two of the three, possibly. Or find a compromise which works. For example, UCSC is not as impacted or as large though not as highly ranked as the other famous public Ivys (Cal, UCLA, et al).

The current mess the public school system is in is one the main reasons we homeschool to begin with. Teaching to the test academically, obsession with n number of APs, cheating, grade inflation, no child left behind, intense peer pressure to get all 'A's, etc... Some well known universities are aware of the current problems and therefore not placing as much weight on things like APs and only giving elective credits for them. Regarding hooks, I think if a child has a passion then great, explore that passion. But if their extracurricular life is relatively normal for a high school student that's perfectly fine also. Well, at least for those 'not' trying to jump through someone else's hoops just to attempt to impress them in an artificial sort of way.

This is 'one' of the reasons we won't be applying to an elite school right out of high school. We simply don't want to play the multiple AP game along with hooks, etc.... The sad part is even for many who do all of that, they can still be rejected by the schools they've jumped through so many hoops to try to impress. Talk about stress and depression. If 'almost' everyone in certain circles believes they should go to an Ivy or equivalent and they don't get in for whatever reason, that can be devastating to their sense of self worth. A 'B' in those cases are very, very bad.

I think this aspect has more to do with existing problems we're seeing at the high school level. If most high school students attending X elite school have a 4.35 GPA, then yes, a 'B' is like a total failure and shameful in some high school circles. There was a post on CC asking a similar question. When did a 3.4 GPA in high school become a negative thing? Was it 10 years ago, maybe 20?

The challenge would be for those cases when they 'do not' make such an adjustment. I wouldn't expect that to always occur. Some schools and employers set minimum GPA standards without adjustments. I know our company is one of them regardless of where one went to school. That GPA standard is even higher if an applicant is applying to an area deemed mission critical. And I have heard some grad schools set those non-adjusted standards based upon the program applied to. I'm not saying they shouldn't adjust, just that it does not matter is certain situations. The same concern would be true for Merit based scholarships. The GPA standard is set forth by the policy of the scholarship.

There have been known cases of both grade inflation and deflation at the university level for many years. I don't have much time to find the references. But a quick google search will yield youi quite a bit. Here's one discussing these issues. "In 2004, in an attempt to curb grade inflation, Princeton University’s faculty senate passed a resolution that asked all departments to restrict the number of A-range grades to no more than 35 percent of all grades given. Though it was not a hard quota, sufficient pressure was put on all departments to significantly decrease the number of A-range grades handed out. But not every department brought its share of A’s quite to 35 percent. A follow-up study done in 2014 shows that only two departments are actually below the target: economics and physics. A few others, including molecular biology, sit just above the target, while humanities classes in general see much higher grades." -- http://www.dailycal.org/2015/05/15/grade-deflation/

Yes, I agree with this as well. Maybe this is a new trend in some high schools - everyone gets a trophy kind of thing to make the school look better. Since we homeschool, I haven't watched the latest high school activities recently. There is definitely a balance between either extreme - dumbing classes down and predetermined, artificial limits on As. Most of the classes I've had while in college did not go to either extreme. There were hard classes and sometimes tests which seemed unfair with ambiguous questions or things which were not covered during the course. Although some instructors who were intellectually honest would revise their grading 'at times' when they realized they made a mistake.

Yes, definitely. I didn't take it that way since I know bullying is especially hurtful during this life stage. There are many documentation cases where young kids took their lives because of some form of bullying. I added the rest simply to say there many, many triggers. It doesn't take long for me to think of more including 'loss of a loved one' which wasn't mentioned. That's also why its hard for those studying depression and suicide to come up with any kind of definitive conclusion as to 'the' cause. Though there are definite known contributors especially if one has a predisposition toward it.

Yes, and of course this includes Cyber Bullying, rape, hazing, rejection from certain 'dream' schools, parental financial problems/loss of job, divorce, a major move to a place with different weather patterns causing SAD and the list goes on and on...

Yes, there are so many factors which can contribute toward it. That is why it would be very difficult to conduct research and conclude it is primary due to (x, y, z). Researchers can look for trends or clusters and perform more analysis like the CDC did in those cases. When looking at individual cases, the apparent reasons are span many things such as genetics/predisposition, peer group, dating relationships, pressure to perform, parent expectations, family environment, etc...

Yes, its funny how some of these concerns and associated threads merge when looking at the college selection process. Each one of these can be a topic on its own, yet they can all affect reasons why one 'might' choose a less selective school in certain cases. Maybe at one school the stress is lower overall due to scholarship GPA concerns. For those students under the gun, it can feel more cutthroat in that they 'have' to get that A to afford college. Add to that weeder classes and grade deflation, and the associated stress levels can really rise.

Roadrunner, is it possible that your local high school had a lot excellent students and high achievers? I don't know what the national average for those are. But it would be interesting to look at that school's overall performance compared with other schools. Personally, I've never seen classes that grade on percentages in which everyone gets an 'A', have you? Even in those classes where the instructor truly wanted everyone to have a shot at an A, there were still many who had lessor grades. The point for me at least while I was a student is, if students are truly motivated and learn 90+ % of the material, they've earned a good grade. If the question is which feels more cutthroat, for me grade deflation via curves and other practices like cheating which invalidates the curve are higher on that list.

I think this can be somewhat of a subjective experience and therefore answer based upon a number of factors. In my experience, some of these contributing factors which can make an environment feel more cutthroat are: - Weeder classes intended to get rid of those deemed less likely to survive based on a teacher's criteria. Survival of the fittest. - Grading on a curve with only a set number of 'As' to give out regardless of overall classroom performance. Grade deflation. - Cheating occurring in such environments which throws off the curves because students are desperate to obtain one of those 'A's. - Large, impersonal classes in which those who attend simply feel like a number with few chances to interact with others. - Instructors largely unavailable to help students and generally disinterested in anything beyond pontificating. - Unreaslistic expectations from instructors in terms of time spent on 'their' class (center of the universe) which leaves little time from other classes, sleep, exercise, socializing, etc... Factors I've found which lend more to a collaborative environment are: - Instructors who want to give out 'A's to as many students who truly demonstrate mastery of the material vs. a cap to meet some institutional limit. - Instructors who go out of their way to help their students succeed. - Smaller cohorts who go through a program together. - Group projects are encouraged and an important aspect of the course and program. - Teamwork is rewarded with healthy competition among various teams. There are many articles and personal experiences one can find online which share students' stories of what made a particular program feel 'cutthroat.' Whether one agrees with their views or not it does not invalidate the sense of 'cutthroat' environment they felt. For the next student it may not have felt that extreme. Still, I think there are trends and institutional practices which lend to that sense. Here's a quote from one of these students: "A quote from my professor on Day 1 of freshman General Chemistry: "1 in 3 students will enter Emory a pre-med. Of them, 1 in 10 will make it to med school. It's my job to get rid of the other 9." https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/which-colleges-to-stay-away-from.1196575/ You can interpret those methods any way you wish. But for this student it definitely felt cutthroat.

Yvonne, just out of curiosity which SLACs have you and your kids visited that you've liked so far?