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dereksurfs

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Everything posted by dereksurfs

  1. I'm still pretty new to this price game which seems to really vary student to student as much as it does school to school depending on who they are trying to 'attract' any particular year. Do you think private, expensive schools like Chapman will only show you general merit scholarship info like this upfront. Those estimation calculators only go so far. Then only when you actually apply will you really know the cost of attendance? I'm not talking about additional needs based assistance or sports scholarships, neither of which we would qualify for.
  2. This is the part of the sticker shock I have not gotten used yet. Generous scholarships are relative when the cost of attendance is astronomical to begin with. This sort of reminds me of the retail stores that jack up their prices prior to their big sale then offer a fantastic discount. I now know these costs have become the new normal for some private schools. It still places it out of the realm of possibility for us, especially when the out of pocket costs are 30-40k+ per year per child.
  3. I think we're probably more in the same boat while considering similar factors than we realize. Thanks for this real world example. Its all about the nuances when narrowing things down to the final few.
  4. Lewelma, The collaboration he does with others sounds interesting. I guess the notion of doing math courses collaboratively is rather new to me. Well, except when a female friend used to study math with me in high school. But we've never done competitive math with our kids. So I've got no real experience or knowledge of how that works in a collaborative way. Can you please help me understand what a collaborative math course might look like? Do they actually solve problems together in-class, do homework together after school, take tests as a team or something else? ETA: Our son really enjoys math. Though he hasn't competed or done anything collaboratively yet with peers beyond the chats in his online class. He may eventually double major in math and CS or Physics. So I truly am interested in the collaborative nature of programs you've looked into and what you like about them.
  5. Ok, I'll give my take though, yes, it is probably somewhat subjective as well. If we go back to the original thread and the article which spurred my thought on it, that may shed some light on the topic. "For decades, our nation's educational establishment has been promoting a simplistic, wrong-headed view about college selection. That view is: Apply to the most selective schools that you have a chance of getting into, and then go to the most selective school that accepts you." The definition of 'most selective' in this case is simple, its just the school with the highest 'ranking' which most agree is rather foolish to base things upon anyway. As a very practical example in our case we may (hypothetically) be debating between two schools and one is generally known to be more selective. For example, UCLA is more selective than UCSC. However, we may like UCSC more for a variety of other reasons, some of which include closer proximity to home, better location for outdoor activities, NOT in LA, smaller campus, not impacted and more affordable to name a few. They are both public state schools so we are not even talking private Ivys in our case. Does this make sense?
  6. No Woodland Mist, you didn't fail. I think we understood your point. Its just not always a workable solution for many, especially if that school is 30-40K above a families budget even if they 'could' get in. That was eternalsummer's point as well. Where the odds are greatest may be irrelevant in those cases. Hence quite a few bright kids go to other schools out of necessity or for other preferences such as closer to home or extracurricular activities which they enjoy.
  7. I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's health crisis. There are definite advantages to being closer to home. :)
  8. Yes, I think that's mostly it. He loves the state and even our location within the state along the coast. We do a lot of outdoor adventure together such as surfing, paddleboarding, backpacking, mountain biking, etc... all within a relatively short distance. Additionally, I think he would like to stay close to us. No desire to go off and explore the world on his own at this stage of his life. Though he enjoys taking trips together.
  9. I guess you can never say never. There will always be cases where things can occur which are not necessarily reflective of the norm including those kids with highest test scores, GPA, APs, etc... Its really hard to speculate at that point since every young person is so different in what they are looking for as well. I don't think every high achiever is necessarily looking for that sort of sympatico group of intellectual equivalent peers to have deep, late night discussions about quantum physics and the like until the wee hours of the morning. Some may be happy to have those discussions in class with their instructors, TAs or a few students as those topics arise. Whether or not one must go to school X and 'only' school X to find that sort of tribe is also very subjective. Who can say that will only occur at Stanford, UC Berkeley, MIT, etc...? Maybe only that one student based on his/her perception.
  10. Yeah, if I could only talk my ds into that! lol I've seen some of those schools mentioned in CC in a thread on automatic full ride scholarships given certain test scores and GPA. He really wants to stay in CA and has zero interest when we talk about out of state options. Whereas our middle dd says she'd like to go to school in Germany. Each kid is so different.
  11. Can you imagine a 'single' B or even worse C grade changing the course of a young person's life? Do you think it could happen? Can you imagine feeling like a complete and utter failure with waaaay too much introspection because of it? How about questioning your actually identity? Who you thought you were vs. who you just discovered you are, apparently! As ridiculous and dramatic as this sounds, its what some kids feel and think. And its just one grade. Add to that weeder classes intended to thin the heard of many of these bright eyed, naive young folks and its a rough road and time in their lives.
  12. I think parent awareness is very critical especially when we look at the numbers. Statistically, its not out of the realm of possibility that this could strike any one of our kids. This is very pervasive, especially at this age. And so I think we need to prepare ourselves. What would we do? How would we respond? Its really hard to know. Though its still good to acknowledge that this can occur. It also helps to attempt to understand what they are thinking and going through to attempt to encourage them during these times. Even if not clinically depressed, college kids will struggle, get discouraged and confused at times. In referring back to the original article, there is a discussion around the societal shift school counselors are seeing. William Alexander, director of Penn’s counseling and psychological services, has watched a shift in how some young adults cope with challenges. “A small setback used to mean disappointment, or having that feeling of needing to try harder next time,†he said. Now? “For some students, a mistake has incredible meaning.†Meeta Kumar, who has been counseling at Penn for 16 years, has noticed the same change. Getting a B can cause some students to fall apart, she said. “What you and I would call disappointments in life, to them feel like big failures.†This is the age, possibly more than any other, when smaller things can seem to get blown out of proportion like a poor grade, a break up or feeling socially awkward. Kids are figuring out their identities as adults and it can be a very stressful time.
  13. Speaking of OT, I'm not quite sure why this thread has taken on Guinness Book proportions. lol :tongue_smilie: Since I'm relatively new to the college board, I feel at least partially responsible. "Look what you've done, man! You've created a monster!" haha :laugh: I do find the conversations interesting especially when considering all the pros/cons in looking at school selectivity. It demonstrates to me the wide range of families, students and associated challenges we're all wrestling with in making these decisions.
  14. Many parents get overwhelmed especially initially when considering the cost of college. This is even more so when they have multiple children. Since we homeschool and my wife stays at home with the kids out of choice, we're in what some refer to as the 'donut hole' financially. The single thing that has helped us the most in coming to grips with these things are friends who are in the same boat with BTDT experience. There are some on this forum who can help with that as well. We've found friends locally who also assist us in this way. Its almost like preparing for marriage or giving birth for the first time. You need support! Locals typically can give some of the best advice since they are in your same shoes, especially those with similar financial constraints considering the college options available. Whenever we feel somewhat overwelmed, I remind my wife about the engineer I work with who has 9 kids and his wife homeschools. They have three in college and five more waiting in the wings! Out of sheer necessity they decided that if their kids wanted to go to college, they would have to fund it themselves. And guess what? They're all doing fine so far. One has graduated with a BS in engineering from their flagship state school. When speaking with them, they are not stressed out about it since they've found an approach that works for their family.
  15. Lewelma, Its interesting that you mention this regarding his peers. Our oldest ds has experienced this 'in part' during some of his college courses at our local CC. He doesn't like to say he is in high school and because of his height most don't realize it. After getting the highest score on one of his chemistry exams, the professor made him come up in front of the class which he really doesn't like. He then asked him his keys to success, was it his high school chemistry classes? lol However, since he had never taken chemistry before and 'was' in high school, he didn't quite know how to respond. Awkward! :tongue_smilie: I've asked him how he feels about this, being at the top or near top of his classes. He said that there are other students doing well and getting A's. So he hasn't really thought about it much and it hasn't bothered him. He still has to study diligently to do well. Being in high school, he doesn't look for college age study buddies or anything like that. Nor does he long for that kind of peer group. But that could change once he's in college, I guess. For now he's very independent in his studies, though he doesn't mind working in groups on projects as long as the others aren't too flaky. So I do find it very interesting to hear about these kinds of academic peer concerns especially when its coming from the students themselves. The kind of peer groups our kids enjoy have more to due with extracurricular interests. For example, ds loves piano and jazz and he's had the opportunity to play with other musicians in various venues. In addition, he likes to hang out with peers in our church youth group. Right now he's getting ready for an all day amusement park trip and is super exciting about it. These kids come from a wide range of backgrounds (academically, socioeconomically) with an even wider range of hobbies and interests. All this to say its not out of the realm of possibility that he'll join an academic club or honors program in the future and get really excited about that. For our younger dds, they take more prodding academically and would much rather be outside playing or engaged in other hobbies. So we'll see over time how that works out.
  16. Hi Ruth, I really do appreciate you sharing your son's experiences as well as your thoughts on this. I also believe its good to consider 'both' sides of the coin when making one's final decision. The beauty of this forum is we have such a wide swath of students represented. I have considered the posts about fit and peers including opportunities to be challenged. I've always appreciated your thoughtful input on this forum among many others whose kids are at the elite schools for various reasons. Quite honestly, the answer to these questions will naturally be narrowed for many of us due to financial constraints which include multiple children going to college. In addition, and possibly the most obvious, most are simply not in the place where they could gain acceptance to schools like MIT, Cal Tech or Stanford even if the parents could afford it. For us its more a matter of degrees within our given constraints. And in those cases, where would each child be able to thrive best given their strengths, weaknesses, goals and preferences? For us, the question won't be elite schools or not but rather a variety of public/private options considering many factors. Will ranking even matter for us in these cases where schools vary but not as extreme as top tier vs. the rest of the pack? Rather, some are generally more recognized as 'good schools' vs. those which are lessor known but may be a better overall fit. For example many of our state schools in CA are well recognized. In fact some are even considered public Ivys (UC Berkeley, UCLA, etc...). Then there are other middle of pack schools, so to speak, which have different claims to fame such as great engineering program, marine biology, nursing, etc... Still there are others which are more obscure but kids do fine in their areas of academic pursuits. I definitely think about fit within our constraints and each child's interests. That is also why I'm currently more drawn to a local UC vs. Cal State school in close driving distance. The former (UCSC) offers more research in our son's areas of stem interest (Robotics, CS, Data Science). Though I know one of the professors at our local Cal State who also oversees a grant to begin new research and develop programs in Biomedical Data Science for the university. So I plan to speak with her about the school's goals including what they plan to develop academically in the next few years. In addition to this, I've been thinking about our lessor known private schools such as Westmont and Chapman University along with more affordable options out of state. Though our oldest wants to stay in CA. So out of state may be more of a consideration for the younger ones once they approach college age. I think some of things you've described make perfect sense in your son's case (as well as others) who need peers at those levels, in his case elite schools. I just don't think that applies for other kids who will thrive within a variety of peer groups. In some cases based upon their personalities, they do better when they can rise to the top (big fish, small pond) while in others they do better when really pushed from the bottom of the pack. Then there are those who will do very well academically and professionally regardless of their peers. I've seen this first hand professionally where some of our best and brightest engineers went to 'average' state schools. Yet they are doing great in their work and adult lives. Some of them are very driven. There may even be a bit of an 'underdog' work ethic not there with those from the more well known schools. So overall I think there is a place for all of these schools, from the most elite to the more common public universities which represent a 'good fit' and 'good value' given the wide spectrum of college students we are have. kwim?
  17. Does it seem like the majority of quality private universities in CA are all very expensive when compared to other states (bang for the buck)? For those in-state, it really makes one consider outside options especially if looking for affordability. We are in the 'donut hole' as are many others. Consequently private is out of reach for most unless receiving close to full ride scholarships at these high cost schools. Even the lessor known, unranked schools are expensive.
  18. The US has been trying to do more of that at least in part through the common core. Though I'm not sure how effective it has been. Since there has been such a big emphasis on standardized tests which have significant multiple choice sections, there is long standing tendency to teach to these tests (AP, PSAT, SAT, ACT, GRE, etc...). Add to that numerous test prep classes focused on scoring even higher. The unfortunate results are the numbers used as criteria for admissions including GPAs which vary so much based upon a school's rigor and grading policies. What do all those higher or lower numbers really mean in the end?
  19. Interesting thread. Anyone with experience at Santa Clara U? Its pricey and not sure they offer much in the way of scholarships relative to EFC.
  20. This sounds like a good case for a double major or at minimum a minor in another area such as CS or Mathematics.
  21. Yes, age does play a factor obviously in some cases due to labor laws, etc... Though some will allow high school freshman ages 14+ to volunteer. I believe our Monterey aquarium has such a program. I think it also depends on the major or area of interest. Here's another example. Let's say some kids took programming classes while in high school or were self-taught at home even. One could volunteer to create a website for a company or update their out of date website. Agreed that would be harder for larger corporations. However, that's not normally the target for this sort of thing. Another may be if interested in the medical field, one could volunteer at the local hospital in a dept. of greatest interest such as physical therapy. Once a medical student these volunteer 'rotations' or clinicals are actually required. In fact, just to gain acceptance into certain medical programs one must have x number of volunteer hours under their belt first. Since I was initially a 'pre-med' major I did a lot of those kinds of related things as well.
  22. Yes, I know it can be hard with limited local internships or related interest jobs. As a bit of an aside, I actually created my own internship while in high school. At the time I was very interested in Architecture and had taken lots of drafting and architecture classes at my local high school. Our teacher even had us create a portfolio to market our work. So I decided to visit a local architect, show him my work and 'volunteer' my time for the opportunity of learning within that professional environment. It turned out to be a great learning experience. After some initial work the architect offered to pay me even though I was not asking for money. This whole notion of 'free work' to create opportunity does open potential doors which may not have existed formally before. There's a pretty cool Ted Talk on it as well here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5qUR3tpEdA
  23. Yes, sure, drugs affect adults everywhere. And even in environments where there are strict policies folks get into serious trouble including losing their jobs. The main difference, as I mentioned,is that its not in your face like it is on school campuses. Does it occur after hours, behind closed doors, hidden, as you mentioned? Sure. But if you're not actively engaged with those things it won't affect your daily work. That's not saying it won't affect your co-worker who is addicted to drugs, etc... So if that is the case and you rely on them to do a good jobs it can still screw things up. I know one guy who worked for the Gov't and lost his security clearance due to drug use, for example. Drugs and alcohol are a serious matter in the workplace, just on a different level with different consequences (e.g. caught intoxicated or stoned while performing surgery).
  24. I guess it really depends where one works. I don't think graduate degrees have anything to do with it. I speak from personal experience in working with Masters and PhDs in their fields. Its more about the corporate policies, state, federal regulations, compliance, etc... Even in those corporate cultures which are more of a 'party' environment, it shouldn't impact the lives of those who work there and don't partake. ETA: I've always worked in environments which have a low tolerance for drugs in the workplace. And even the startups and mid sized companies I've worked for had high standards. That's not to say they didn't have holiday parties with some folks having a little too much to drink, etc... It just never was an issue while working, not even once can I think of a time. I certainly never smelled pot on lunch break,etc... I would think its like that in many professional environments. Could you imagine visiting a relative while in the hospital after surgery and then seeing their doctor smoking weed on break! haha :tongue_smilie:
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