Being the glutton for pain that I am, I have decided to rearrange TOG to fit with SOTW. I feel pretty good about it, though...let's hope I still do once we're putting it in practice :) I did move one chapter of SOTW and I combined some (consecutive ones) since I needed to put 42 weeks into 36. I won't be doing all weeks of TOG but since it's supposed to be "pick and choose" anyway, this reformatting is actually helping me do that. I also compared the books (for the first 9 chapters of SOTW AG) with the ones for TOG and there is some overlap, so I'm ordering them all from the library (we have a really good system here in the SF Bay Area) and will use whatever seems like the best fit. The hardest part (besides the reworking) was philosophical - choosing between using a chronological approach (SOTW) and a Biblically ordered one (TOG) so I actually let the kids decide, and they wanted to go in order - the apple doesn't fall far from the tree :D

:bigear:

Thank you all for this helpful feedback - it definitely speaks to what I'm trying to do. My challenge with making SOTW my spine is rearranging all of TOG since the chapters don't correlate. I really don't want to read SOTW out of order or do them both in order and have them not relate to each other. Thoughts on this? Or does anyone have a list of TOG literature arranged in Chronological (SOTW) order? Within TOG, it gives a way to do it chronologically (at least the first unit), but even when I did that, it still wasn't aligning with SOTW.

I am on the fence about whether to follow TOG Year 1 as written or painstakingly rearrange it to go chronologically (an option, though not the preferred one, presented in the TOG Yr 1 introduction), so that I can continue to use SOTW as our spine (even though TOG only lists it as an alternate) because I really enjoyed all 4 years of SOTW with my oldest (following WTM) and want to do it again with my younger two. The only problem is that it's not a perfect fit, as TOG doesn't always line up with SOTW, even when rearranged chronologically. Any other input on meshing Tapestry of Grace with the Well Trained Mind is also appreciated, as that's what I'm attempting to do all the way around.

Resurrecting in case anyone can give me more feedback on my original post, now that I'm getting down to the nitty gritty of actually applying this (hoping to start next week)!

This is very helpful! :) Based on the feedback (thank you all), I think we will try LCI, going at a slower pace, and maybe incorporate Minimus as well. Beth, looking ahead, next year would she finish with LCI and move into LCII or just start FFL? What is your preference between FFL and LFC?

If she were third grade age, I would feel more comfortable doing that, but because she's younger and more creative/artistic than fact/memorization oriented, I'm hesitant. We definitely plan to keep going with Latin for as long as we're homeschooling, which I hope will be through high school.

Jen, I like that idea - my one concern with Minimus is that if it's very interactive, I will struggle with juggling my other two children, as my son (also on the younger side) is coming up into first grade and my oldest will be entering the logic stage. I bought TOG so that I could have a more structured way to manage multiple ages, but it's only for a few subjects, so I'm still navigating how to balance independent work, one-on-one time, and having us all together. Latin has always been about half and half for us - me teaching the lesson, then them doing the work independently, but all separately since they are at different levels.

My 7.5 year-old daughter has always been a grade ahead, but I am not sure whether to advance her in Latin. She did SSL in 1st grade and PL in 2nd grade this past year, but I'm not totally comfortable with her moving into LC 1 since my older daughter did that last year (for 4th grade) and it was a lot of grammar (my oldest is better at that kind of my memorization). My original plan was just to repeat PL, but my young 3rd grader is precocious, so now I'm contemplating using LFC A, since I met the author at a homeschool convention and really liked his workshops (as a result, we are starting Spanish for Children with my older daughter, as well as FFL). Would that be gentler than LC 1? Or should I just repeat PL like I originally planned or...?

I hope you're able to set aside another day. I realize how hard this is for those who minister, which is why they often need it the most!

This totally played itself out after I posted...I had a quiet time (must have felt convicted posting about that - LOL!) and was reading in the Old Testament (I've been slogging my way through and am finally in Exodus). It was the chapter about God sending manna and quail...and this is what it said: 23 He told them, “This is what the Lord commanded: Tomorrow will be a day of complete rest, a holy Sabbath day set apart for the Lord. So bake or boil as much as you want today, and set aside what is left for tomorrow.†24 So they put some aside until morning, just as Moses had commanded. And in the morning the leftover food was wholesome and good, without maggots or odor. 25 Moses said, “Eat this food today, for today is a Sabbath day dedicated to the Lord. There will be no food on the ground today. 26 You may gather the food for six days, but the seventh day is the Sabbath. There will be no food on the ground that day.†27 Some of the people went out anyway on the seventh day, but they found no food. 28 The Lord asked Moses, “How long will these people refuse to obey my commands and instructions? 29 They must realize that the Sabbath is the Lord’s gift to you. That is why he gives you a two-day supply on the sixth day, so there will be enough for two days. On the Sabbath day you must each stay in your place. Do not go out to pick up food on the seventh day.†30 So the people did not gather any food on the seventh day. I was blown away! I mean what are the odds? Love hearing that still, small voice...

I'm reading this right now and really enjoying it - so refreshing and it's inspiring me to implement more of a sabbath. My husband read it first (and loved it) because it was recommended to him by Kevin Twit of Indelible Grace Music, who led our church in a hymnology retreat this past spring. I know this is an old thread, but since it wasn't addressed, I have to say that...I don't see what the conflict is between Christ being our sabbath and having a day of rest. Why can't we do both? They complement each other. Both are biblical. It reminds me of when people insist they don't need a "quiet time" because they are always praying throughout the day. I've gone that route more often than not and suffered spiritually (emotionally as well) because of it. I can attest to the difference in my life and faith when I take time out of my day to focus on God. Continually communing with Him (I fail at that too) is equally important, but anything that helps us "be still and know that [He] is God" is vital.

I went ahead and bought the full year also - can't resist those freebies! That's encouraging about the price of the books. I have to inventory my home library to see which ones we already have (there's bound to be some since I'm a literary packrat).

We'll have to keep connected, since it does sound like we're attempting a very similar mission! :) I've decided to purchase the DE of TOG so I can get the updates (they're "smoothing" the first year and the first unit of that is supposed to come out this summer). Are you doing Ancients too? Now I'm just trying to decide whether to buy the full year or just the first unit...

This is very helpful. I'm Protestant but I prefer an ecumenically-friendly approach.

Did you move here yet? If not, and you're still considering it, I can tell you about Marin County (what the other end of the Golden Gate Bridge connects to) - I'm the coordinator for the Christian homeschool group here :) Sonoma County (Santa Rosa et al) is just north of us.

Has anyone used this to create a schedule for TOG?

Thanks. I had heard that first part repeated in the threads so I was planning to wait - I also try to use the library as much as possible (and I have built up quite a used book collection - trying to play "librarian" this summer so I can see what I have). The second part makes sense - I have a feeling it would be that way with my kids also.

I really appreciate both of your responses - very helpful input that I need to mull over. As for using the AG if not using SOTW as the spine, I meant if using it as an alternate, as it's listed in TOG on the schedule, i.e. on the lessons that one decides to do SOTW, do they use the AG. While TOG lists UG as 4-6 and Dialectic as 6-9 (overlapping since it's "stages not ages"), I read enough user experiences to determine that if you have an advanced 5th grader, you may want to D to keep them challenged...or even bounce back and forth between both levels. That flexibility is one thing that draws me to TOG.

Perhaps I can set a record for bumping threads... :nopity: In between, I'll pray about this (I'm spiritually dyslexic at times ;)

If this is too specific or unclear, can you please (pretty please), visit the other, more general (not just TOG) thread I started: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3958433#post3958433 Thanks! :)

I'm heavily considering TOG to use with my upcoming 5th, 3rd, and 1st graders, having just finished our first four-year cycle with TWTM / SOTW but I am not sure I can justify the cost and labor for just humanities (history, geography, literature, writing) when we also want to cover the other classical subjects: math, science, grammar, handwriting/typing, spelling, Latin, Spanish, Intro to Logic (last two are for my oldest). With such a focus on one area, I'm concerned about it swallowing up the time energy that needs to be distributed among the others. And it sounds like a scheduling nightmare. In the past, we haven't formally studied writing because it happened organically with the narrations - same with geography, so I'm not sure whether we need to specialize like that. So I either need people who have successfully made the above scenario work to encourage me or I would like to find a program (or even just a scheduling tool) that is more aligned with TWTM. I considered Classical House of Literature but again, it's a lot of emphasis on one area. Maybe that's okay but I'm worried about overkill... (I also posted another thread with specific questions just about TOG http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390173 )

:bigear:

Background: -Like many here, I have been intrigued with TOG since I first heard about it, not too far into our homeschooling journey which began 3.5 years ago when my oldest (then in the middle of 1st grade) requested that I homeschool her. I have spent hours reading most of the TOG threads here and just returned from the Great Homeschool Convention in Long Beach where I heard Marcia Somerville (TOG creator) speak - I went to both of her workshops and that's what renewed my interest in the curriculum. At the same time, I also thoroughly enjoyed Susan Wise Bauer's workshops, and was encouraged to continue with TWTM. -We just wrapped up our school year and our first four-year cycle of SOTW / WTM (my oldest) -My children will be entering 5th, 3rd, and 1st grades, so Upper Grammar (maybe some Dialectic) and Lower Grammar Questions: (I do know about the buffet concept and that you don't do everything, but still wondering about how to implement it in these ways) How compatible is TOG with WTM? Does it follow the same question and narration format? (I'm having trouble seeing that with the samples - I see questions only for dialectic and I see writing exercises, but I can't tell if they correlate). Does anyone use SOTW at the spine? Whether using SOTW as the spine or the TOG spine, is it helpful to use the SOTW AG questions & verbal narration followed by written or is the equivalent of that in TOG? Is it realistic to schedule TOG with math, science, grammar, spelling, Latin, Spanish, and intro to Logic? (the latter two just for my 5th grader) If so, how do you do it without taking up your whole day or getting behind in the four-year cycle? Is there art and music appreciation at the UG & LG level at all? I believe I read that it's touched on in the D level. If so, how do you schedule that in along with all of the subjects listed above? How much / what do you read aloud to your UG & LG students? Do you read anything aloud to your D students? ...As it may be obvious, I'm rather attached to the WTM way of doing SOTW, but I also had some real struggles with my oldest and narration (verbal & written), especially in our 2nd and 3rd years. I can't imagine experiencing that with my middle child, while also schooling my oldest and youngest. So I guess I'm looking for some hand holding, but also afraid of losing the benefits of the rigors of going soley with WTM/SOTW. At the same time, TOG seems like more work in some ways - less concentrated and more spread out. Any input to help me decide would be great - I don't want to inflict the three week sample on my children when we've just finished up our school year (we really need a rest period). I have a coupon that has to be used in the next two weeks, so that's part of why I want to decide soon - if I get the full year program, we can get all the instructional DVDs ($50 value) free or free shipping if we buy the print version. Can anyone comment on how helpful those DVDs are?