KSera
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Posts posted by KSera
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36 minutes ago, TCB said:
For decades HCWs in the OR have been wearing masks to protect the patient so it always seems so strange to hear people deny their protective effects. They are also worn in many other settings to protect both sides, and have been for a long time. I find the denial of the benefit of mask wearing hard to comprehend. I should add that it is not a complete protection of course, but it seems strange to deny any meaningful protection from them.
Right. I’m also wondering how the people who deny any benefit from masks explain the almost non existent flu season this year.
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Not a robust study, but might still be quite helpful in decision making: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/heal-the-mind-heal-the-body/202105/after-covid-vaccine-arm-my-first-shot-do-i-switch-arms
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43 minutes ago, Spy Car said:
My wife was high school friends with an under 55 man who was known locally as Patient Zero, as he was one of the very first Covid victims. Near death in the hospital for 64 days, 30 on a ventilator, became septic, developed pneumonia, kidneys failed, and he was given a 1% chance of survival.
Eventually he pulled through. But he lost fingers and toes to amputation as a result of having Covid. Stoked to be alive.
Bill
I went to high school with one of the first Covid patients in my area as well. Mid forties and healthy and he also ended up on a ventilator for weeks near death’s door. He made it fortunately. His case made me know right from the start that any of us could end up with that kind of case and I wanted no part of having that happen.
I know another guy in his thirties. Mountain climber with no health conditions who ended up super sick last year. I don’t believe he ended up hospitalized, but he was sick for weeks and took months to get back to semi normal. Last I knew, he still wasn’t able to do the kinds of physical activities he did before this.
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1 hour ago, MercyA said:
@hjffkj, I'm sorry you are struggling!
I regret to say that my arm is worse again and I'm calling the doctor in the AM.
So weird. It seems like there should be nothing there to hit with a needle except muscle and nerves, YWIM? I don't understand why it still hurts so much, almost six weeks out. And, I know this seems dumb, but there is so much anti-vax sentiment in my area that I feel like I don't want to tell people. (I would if someone asked me if I had side effects! Just don't want to volunteer it....) 😬
I missed that you had this happen! So sorry! Does it seem like they gave it too high and may have hit the joint?
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5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:
I'd be curious about the tail past 7 days, I guess. I've seen enough people report side-effects after 7 days on here that I'm sure it does happen. Tracking for 7 days doesn't seem quite sufficient for this one.
I expect they were still tracking them in some way, since they are still following them. It just wasn’t in this particular report. I agree that would be interesting to know.
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9 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:
This looks like trial data to me, not VSafe data, though?
Let me go find their actual paper.
Right. Sorry, I was talking about two different things in the same sentence. It was a little stream of conscious. I don’t know how they did it for the trial, but it does say in the trial data that symptoms peaked on day one and lessened each day, so I was just speculating that there likely wasn’t much left to report by day seven. Then I jumped to saying how v-safe does it.
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2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:
So, this is pure laziness on my part, but did they only let people keep the diary for 7 days? That's what the site seems to suggest.
I don't know. V safe starts checking weekly after the initial week (or maybe it's after 10 days?). It says that side effect diminished each day after peaking on day 1, so I would expect there just werent' many people that still had anything to report on day 7 (my dh wanted to stop doing v-safe after 5 days, because he didn't see the point of them continuing to ask, and I told him he had to keep doing it as long as they ask!)
Also, the data I linked is the Pfizer one. I just realized that. You can click in the side bar to switch to Moderna or JJ.
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Found it. This has a good break down of side effects by age group, separated by local vs systemic. For the over 18 age group:
"Overall, the median onset of systemic adverse events in the vaccine group in general was 1 to 2 days after either dose and lasted a median duration of 1 day. " (bolding mine)
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html
Also:
"For both age groups, fatigue, headache and new or worsened muscle pain were most common. The majority of systemic events were mild or moderate in severity, after both doses and in both age groups. Fever was more common after the second dose and in the younger group (15.8%) compared to the older group (10.9%)"
For the 12-15 year olds, it does say a median duration of 1-2 days for systemic effects. That data is at the bottom.
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4 minutes ago, KSera said:
I really think you've had an unlucky sample. I have to go back to the trial data and what they have from v-safe so far, but that doesn't match what I recall at all. Actually, now that I think of it, I can say before even going back to the data, that one of my parents was having side effects on day 3 (but it only started that day, so lasted only 36 hours), everything I was finding said that someone should call their doctor if they had a reaction that lasted more than two days. I'll go find the side effect break down though.
This is the latest v-safe data I have found so far. It's mid-February, but includes millions of people. And I actually think side effects are likely to be slightly over reprented in v-safe, because people with side effects are more likely to participate. Even so, it looks better than your sample has faired (but seems pretty true to what I've seen--seems to me it's been about half and half with people I know having more than sore arm or not, and only about 25% having fever after the second dose (much less after 1st). I want to see the info about how long it lasts for most people though. Somewhere I saw that. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-02/28-03-01/05-covid-Shimabukuro.pdf
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4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:
For the record, most people I knew had more than 2 days of vaccine side effects, although I very much doubt the vaccine is worse than the disease on average for them!!
I really think you've had an unlucky sample. I have to go back to the trial data and what they have from v-safe so far, but that doesn't match what I recall at all. Actually, now that I think of it, I can say before even going back to the data, that one of my parents was having side effects on day 3 (but it only started that day, so lasted only 36 hours), everything I was finding said that someone should call their doctor if they had a reaction that lasted more than two days. I'll go find the side effect break down though.
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6 hours ago, SKL said:
I didn't see that, but I recall reading that about age 55 is where average side effects from the vax exceed the severity of average Covid symptoms. In other words, those under 55 are likely to have a rougher time from the vax than the virus.
Do you have a link for that? The 45-55 group is still relatively risky for Covid, and the number of people who have more than 1 (possibly 2) days of vaccine side effects is tiny. So, I’d be interested to see that.
2 hours ago, Mom0012 said:There was actually TONS of discussion about this article from virologists and epidemiologists when it came out, and I read it then. They were super frustrated with Slate (and even more so The Atlantic which also published it, since The Atlantic usually has a much higher standard than Slate ) for having published it, because it’s not accurate in so many ways and the person who wrote it was really not qualified to speak to those issues. I could tell you some of the specific issues with the article, if you are interested.
I saw you said you haven’t been around here in a long time and haven’t read these threads, so you probably missed that there are a lot of people here who are reading a whole lot on this and are quite educated on the facts about what is known about Covid at this point. I don’t see much issue of an echo chamber regarding Covid here, as I believe most of us get our primary information from sources outside TWTM I don’t consider something posted here as being truth without verifying it, including checking the reliability of the source. There are a few posters who cite their posts really well, which makes the information they post more trustworthy for me, because I have been able to vet their data and sources.
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1 hour ago, vonfirmath said:
We have a local restaurant that has been closed twice so that all their staff can go get their 1st and 2nd vax (and just closed early yesterday as their chief chef is struggling with vax side effects)
I think that’s super smart in the long run. They’re less likely to have closures due to sick employees now and I’m certain I’m not the only one that would preference patronizing a restaurant that had done that.
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49 minutes ago, SKL said:
OK this is a facebook survey. Say no more. 🙂
Only the state level data came from Facebook. I wouldn’t want a FB survey used for collecting medical research, but I certainly don’t think it’s useless for collecting sociological data like this. There will be some selection bias, but I don’t see a reason to wave away the whole thing as irrelevant just because some of it was collected from people who responded via Facebook (and that’s coming from a FB hater). I think it’s useful for what it is.
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1 hour ago, PeterPan said:
It seems like they missed the "just didn't get around to it" category. Who wants to admit that's the real reason?
The wording of the question was, “When do you plan to get vaccinated” so that it was collecting people’s intentions, rather than actions.
The full report is available without a paywall and with much more detail here: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f7671d12c27e40b67ce4400/t/60a3d7b3301db14adb211911/1621350327260/FINAL+for+posting_Facebook+Survey+Summary+Document+for+Website.docx.pdf
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On 5/16/2021 at 5:28 PM, ktgrok said:
I unfortunatlely know more anti covid vaccine folks than I'd like, and they fall into two camps. Either hard core Trump supporters who preach conservative values and guns and religion, or the everything organic, cure cancer with essential oils camp. Or, some are both, actually.
I saw this today that shows the percentage of vaccine hesitant people falling into four categories (according to reason for hesitancy rather than demographics) and thought it was pretty interesting. You can look at the results by state:
6 hours ago, Kassia said:I think our odds of winning are pretty minimal!
"At least 60,000 people called into the Ohio Department of Health’s call center and ohiovaxamillion.com was viewed more than 25 million times as of 4:30 p.m. Monday, according to the Ohio Department of Health."
I just saw this and thought of this thread 😂
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2 minutes ago, Pen said:
@Bootsie another problem is that there’s an assumption that the spike protein alone is not dangerous, but that may well be a false assumption https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spike-protein-plays-additional-key-role-in-illness/
Which is super interesting and important to study, but as the first paragraph of that article says:
Now, a major new study shows that the virus spike proteins (which behave very differently than those safely encoded by vaccines) also play a key role in the disease itself.
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Do they allow both at the same time? Just curious. My oldest had the menactra a few years ago. We were thinking they need the meningitis B this Summer, but we’re not sure what can be given at the same time. They haven’t had the HPV one yet and are going to start that as well.
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10 minutes ago, Pen said:
whole other potential problem is ADE
Data from the study of SARS-CoV and other respiratory viruses suggest that anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies could exacerbate COVID-19 through antibody-dependentenhancement (ADE).This has been looked at extensively, and the vaccines were developed specifically to avoid this, and have been very successful at doing so. There are lots of articles about this. https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/91648
An excerpt:
Scientists designed animal studies to look for ADE. They looked for it in human trials, and they've been looking for it in the real-world data for COVID-19 vaccines with emergency use authorization. So far, they haven't seen signs of it. In fact, the opposite is happening, Lowe noted.
"[W]hat seems to be beyond doubt is that the vaccinated subjects, over and over, show up with no severe coronavirus cases and no hospitalizations. That is the opposite of what you would expect if ADE were happening," he wrote.
Furthermore, ADE is an acute problem, and it can be very dramatic. If it was an issue with these vaccines, we would have spotted it by now, said Brian Lichty, PhD, an associate professor in pathology and molecular medicine at McMaster University in Toronto.
"It'll kill you quickly. In all the places I'm aware of ADE happening, it is an acute, mostly cytokine-driven event,"
____________
apparently there’s a whole cell Chinese vaccine that has the potential to be an exception, though it hasn’t been seen so far.* as mentioned above, Pen has told me that she has me on ignore, so she won’t see this
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8 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:
Nope my kids haven’t been in school. They do play outdoor sorts, and see friends masked outdoors and we went to church last week (with masks and distancing) for one kid’s confirmation.
But my kids haven’t been in a store or classroom since 2019. We are definitely on the cautious side.
Oh, sorry. I think I interpreted the “called the school nurse” as meaning he was in school. At least it does sound really unlikely to be Covid.
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34 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:
At noon, sent my kids to the pool with their cousins (outdoor pool we rented from the neighbors, so they are the only people there, besides one uncle). (Yes, one cousin is 21 and a lifeguard so it was quite safe). At that point, I was fine.
At 1:00 or so bam it hit me.
Hearing it hit so fast would make me a little more concerned. Colds tend to be slower to come on, and I don’t think sinus infections typically start without first having congestion. Given your vaccination status, still seems unlikely to be Covid.
1 minute ago, Terabith said:I think the odds of it being covid, given your level of exposure, is microscopic.
I think their exposure has increased since getting vaccinated. I don’t know in what ways, but it sounds like at least one kid is at school, and that kid has some mild symptoms as well.
I’m thinking even if it’s a cold, you don’t want to put other people in the same exercise by passing it onto them. Hearing that colds are running rampant right now makes me nervous, as we are supposed to finally have a get together with family members we haven’t seen in a year, and if any of us gets a cold before then, that will be canceled, and everyone will be devastated. Some are elderly, and we can’t take any risk of it being Covid.
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21 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:
For the record, here are two statements:
1) My kid is more likely to have a mild reaction to COVID than to the vaccine
and
2) My kids is more likely to be badly hurt by the vaccine than COVID.
I wouldn't be surprised if 1) is true but 2) seems grossly untrue. But they are NOT equivalent or even related statements.
We’d need data to prove either way, but I’d be surprised if number one is true, probability wise. Even a kid who had systemic side effects (and seems the majority don’t) is very unlikely to have them for more than a day, whereas I expect that more than half of kids with Covid have symptoms for more than a day.
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27 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:
Probably true half the time. Maybe more than half, I really don't know.
This doesn't seem true to me. While there are a lot of asymptomatic kids with covid, there are also a lot that are at least as sick as with a bad cold or a flu (and obviously some much worse). I would call a bad cold or flu worse to deal with than what even people who have a day of crummy systemic vaccine side effects go through (I did have a day of fever and aches after my second dose--still way better than a cold or flu that would have me down longer).
12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:I don't think I know practically ANYONE who had no side effects to the second shot. It's a minority.
Really? I know a lot of them. Most did have some arm soreness, but unless it's severe, that's the one side effect I don't really count. None of my kids have even had enough arm soreness to say more than, "yeah, my arm is kind of sore" It has been definitely less than half of the people I know who had enough side effects to be in bed after the second shot, and even those, none of them for more than one day. And none of the young adults or teens had anything that prevented their normal activities (one did have joint soreness, but that was the only one that had anything other than arm soreness).
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31 minutes ago, EKS said:
This is true, but if you're trying to understand how the student is going to do on test day on one exam or the other, part of what is important is doing it all at once. For example, there is much less time per question on the ACT. Can the student maintain that pace for the whole test without the quality of their answers going down?
Right. I agree with you that’s best.
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34 minutes ago, SKL said:
It's also possible that Covid, or this variant, impacts that biological population more than ours. Though Brazil is a diverse country with a lot of mixed people, there are still large populations of poor indigenous people. Indigenous people even in the USA tend to be hit harder by Covid.
Yep, and I think we should feel a responsibility to do what we can to protect them, rather than a “every person for themself” attitude.
15 minutes ago, SKL said:This article says that in the US, when adjusted for age distribution, indigenous people are 3.3x as likely to die of Covid compared to white people.
https://www.apmresearchlab.org/covid/deaths-by-race
Thanks for providing the stat and link. Unfortunately, I’ve long thought this particular fact is part of what has led a portion of the population to blow off Covid as no big deal. They see it affects “them” badly, but not a worry for “us” 😢.
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CDC mask announcement (a new thread)
in The Chat Board
Posted
Someone shared it in one of the other threads. Good news!