FWIW, Level 5 of Barton was a breeze here compared to Level 4. DD flew threw and enjoyed it. And it made all the difference in being able to break down and decode longer words. HUGE difference.

The only time in my life I wore a bra to sleep in was when I was breast feeding and only because I leaked a lot (bed kept getting wet) and I was HUGE so it was uncomfortable having them flop around. I HATE sleeping in a bra and always have. I strip that sucker off as soon as is humanly possible. :)

I will be honest, I do wish she would revamp Level 4. It is sooo much harder than any other level we have been through. I love Barton. I really, really do. But Level 4? I wish she would redo it. Although like I said syllable division was a breeze for DD with Level 4. There were other areas that were serious issues but not syllable division. Every child is different. I hope the rest of the lessons go smoothly and you find a way to make syllable division make sense, OhE. Best wishes.

Writing is a very complex process involving a ton of different systems within the brain and body. It can take time for all of those systems to actually sync up. I would keep going with HWT. If she asks, you might offer to teach her to write her name in cursive if it isn't too long and she has interest. Keep it a fun thing, though, not a stress thing. As for "writing" a lot in her journal, if she isn't frustrated that it isn't really writing real letters and she seems to be enjoying it I would not mess with that. My mom used to do this when she was that age and younger. She loved it and because it was a fun thing for her as a little girl she kept up the practice as she got older and could actually write. She ended up as an English major, got several degrees and became a reading and writing specialist teacher at the High School level.

I haven't read that particular book but I know what you mean. That was why I liked Smart but Scattered and ADD Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life, because even though the books are not some sort of comprehensive book on ADD/ADHD they both have some very helpful and specific ways to improve functionality and to help people understand WHY completing even a seemingly simple task can actually be a monumental event.

Actually, Smart But Scattered was helpful for me as an adult. What is in that book can be applied to adults, too. The trick is to stay focused long enough to read the book, process what it is saying (take notes), get a plan in place based on ideas that might work for you personally, then actually implement that plan and created external scaffolding and support so that plan STAYS implemented. Which is why having a partner to work with can really, really help.

Writing involves many complex processes. It can take a considerable amount of time to master. I agree with EKS I would focus on one or two things at a time that you really want them to target and work on. I would add that I would also focus on ANYTHING that they did right. Encourage them. If they failed to capitalize 4 sentences out of 10, praise the 6 they did capitalize instead of marking up and focusing on the 4 they didn't. Kids tend to respond better to encouragement and praise than to only focusing on what they haven't mastered yet. Separate mechanics from ability to get thoughts on paper. Help them learn to polish but don't make them rewrite every single thing. There is no one size fits all, everyone should be at this level of writing by this stage. We, as human beings, progressed at different paces and in fits and starts. :)

I actually don't but I hope you get some great responses. How it was presented in Barton worked great for DD and pretty well for DS. There were other things in Level 4 that were gosh awful hard to get through and I felt like I was making us walk on broken glass backwards to get through them but not syllable division. That clicked beautifully. I wish I could help but I'm sure someone has some great ideas and will post soon. Hugs and best wishes.

Good luck

OP, I agree with Okbud, being part of a team that understands and accepts and is proactive about ADD/ADHD (or whatever the underlying challenges are that a family may be facing) can make all the difference. Without a team, things can get really tough on everyone. And I also agree that meds are NOT right for everyone. Absolutely. And I think most people here would be supporting you 100% in an informed decision not to use medications. Of course they would. Why? Because there ARE side effects and sometimes they DON'T work for specific people/situations and sometimes they AREN'T necessary if there is solid understanding and support systems in place and sometimes going without the meds really is the better option. You got hit with a lot of stories of how meds can help because your "god forbid" comment and future posts indicated you do not have a solid grasp of ADHD medications. Your comments indicated your decision to not even get evaluations (and no, getting evaluations is not necessarily the best option) was not made based on solid research and understanding. Also your honestly fairly flippant dismissal of using those meds and your implication that anyone that does use meds has been tricked or misdiagnosed and has doped their child or themselves into oblivion and deliberately altered their personality just so they are compliant and it makes life more convenient was insulting, hurtful and showed an amazing level of ignorance regarding medications for ADHD/ADD. But you came here for an open discussion and I think that is great. Just accept that your views and attitudes are going to be challenged. That can happen with any discussion. Doesn't mean the discussion isn't worthwhile. It just means that maybe there are a lot of people who have had first hand experiences that do not agree with your views. The discussion is still interesting and worthwhile, IMHO. If you have a thick enough skin I think we all may find value in continuing it. Best wishes.

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I'm sorry that you feel people here are hard to talk to. I am confused as to what you were expecting in this thread? People ARE talking to you. You asked questions and people have answered to the best of their ability. You seemed to reject 90% of what was said out of hand so people continued to respond with specifics from their own lives as well as reflections and scientific data and links and etc. etc. Your responses seemed to be turned in a very negative way towards yourself and others diagnosed with ADHD so people expressed concern for you and felt a bit hurt themselves. They kept talking, though. They didn't run away from the thread. All they know is what you posted. Since your posts seems to be negative about yourself people expressed concern because they care. And even though your posts seemed pretty negative to others who have ADHD and there are many on this thread that have ADHD or family members who have ADHD and many were hurt by your posts they continued to try and help you see their view. You continued to throw what they were saying back at them as if they have no idea what they are talking about. And still people are posting and trying to have a discussion. Honestly, I don't see people unwilling to talk and discuss. They are very willing. That doesn't mean they are going all say "Yes, you are right, people labeled with ADHD are actually lazy and selfish and this is all some sort of made up diagnosis to control young boys." because that has not been their personal experience. People are sharing their personal experiences. Are you saying they are lying? Badly mislead? Seriously delusional? What sort of discussion were you hoping for? People ARE trying to have a discussion with you. But perhaps you are not hearing what you wanted to hear and until you do you are going to continue to say that no one is interested in having a discussion?

Then do your do diligence in finding someone reliable and with lots of experience and with a reputation for NOT just slapping on labels to find the truth. The purpose of evaluations is not a label (or shouldn't be). It is to find accurate answers and determine helpful courses of action based on those answers. Spinning your wheels secretly thinking you are a jerk and lazy and selfish is not healthy.

My concern is that you seem to almost want to attribute issues that could be related to ADHD to laziness and selfishness, etc. and don't seem willing to internalize all the posts on this thread stating that if you and your son are truly dealing with ADHD then NO it is not laziness and selfishness, it is a difference in neurological processing that you are dealing with and there are ways to help improve the situation. As for glasses, would I like to not have to wear them? Heck yeah. Glasses can be a pain in the rear. But I don't see it as me not using my own eyes. I use my eyes but my eyes need help. They don't work very well so the glasses help me see better, which helps me be more functional in my daily life.

Your posts on this thread are pretty negative towards yourself, and your views on ADHD are inaccurate and rather insulting (although I realize you are not trying to). I wonder if you and your son are less functional than you are willing to acknowledge. You seem to be sort of blaming struggles and issues on personality and poor choices that should be under your control or that of your son. I sense fear that there really is an ADHD issue and you are terrified of the label. Just as an aside, when I look through my glasses I AM looking with my real eyes. My glasses just make it possible to see everything in focus instead of causing tremendous eye strain as I squint my way through the day without them. Do you see glasses as somehow "cheating"? I am confused as to why you feel using glasses is a bad thing.

I actually was not meaning this example literally. I apologize for the confusion. I was meaning it to show how learning something new (like driving) can be a very challenging proposition but eventually becomes a perfectly normal daily activity because practice helps. However, for a person with ADHD some daily activities remain challenging even with lots of practice (such as Maize getting dressed with her shirt inside out and backwards). I didn't mean to imply that driving is literally hard for all people with ADHD. Sorry.

Every child is different. We are talking about complex neurological processes. In some instances, the strengths may be rapid creative thoughts, perhaps artistically. For others they may be very good at global thinking, invention, rapid assessment of threats, etc. Depends on the child. Unfortunately, the underlying strengths may never be tapped into or recognized because the deficits frequently mask the strengths.

I don't see 4 year olds being drugged but maybe there are some. And I do agree that ADHD gets slapped on kids in school far more often than is necessary, mostly because more and more schools are expecting more and more seat work/boring clerical work from younger and younger ages, which is definitely developmentally inappropriate and harmful. I do believe that there is a lot of misdiagnosis. The norm now though is to wait on meds until a child is older. Not 4 year olds. However, you seem to be under the misguided impression that ADHD meds are going to significantly alter your child's personality and turn them into someone else. That isn't true. While in the early days of ADHD meds there were a lot of kids walking around mindlessly numb or whatever, the medications have come a long way. They don't alter personality when used correctly, they simply help with functionality. I have a friend with three kids. The older two are NT. The youngest has ADHD. Her impulse control was almost nil. She struggled in school. She struggled to maintain friendships. In the middle of a ballet recital, during another child's solo, she suddenly went dancing across the stage and accidentally tripped the other child. She is a sweet, bright, lively kiddo. When her parents finally sought answers and put her on medication it did take time to find the right medication and dosage. The meds did not change her personality. They helped her functionality. Grades went up, she finally started developing solid friendships, she joined the swim team and has won awards, and is a much happier child. Except for feeling more confident from improved functionality and that in turn turning her into a happier child her personality was not altered into some weird other child that is unrecognizable compared to who she was. Does that make sense?

Only if you let it. If you get an evaluation through someone highly trained, that doesn't just toss out labels and meds on a whim (and yes I acknowledge there are those out there) then you aren't kowtowing to society, you are getting the answers you need to help your child. If you feel there is something causing him significant struggles, evaluations can give you solid answers on how to help. Maybe meds is part of the answer (usually meds coupled with behavior/EF therapies is more successful). Maybe not. What matters is actually knowing what is happening so you can address the issues and tap into the strengths you may not even be aware that he has. And you, too, for that matter. And I don't call DD's dyslexia a disorder. It is a difference in processing. I see ADHD as the same thing. A difference in processing. Sometimes that difference is a strength and for some things it isn't. Knowing how to help the weak areas and tap into the strengths (that may be undermined by the weak areas without some systematic help) can be the difference between surviving and thriving.

Yep. My husband and my mother (reading specialist teacher in the public school system for many years) absolutely pushed for me to NOT get a diagnosis for my daughter. I knew she was struggling in school. I knew that my having to reteach everything after school was not normal. I knew her self esteem was tanking. But they were so afraid of "labels" and felt strongly that the school was not recognizing that every child learns at their own pace (I agree with this, by the way) that they kept pushing me not to seek answers, just "give her more time". I did our child a terrible disservice by not seeking answers and being afraid of "labels". Finding answers for what was wrong was what we both needed. Finally getting an evaluation and finding out WHY she struggled was a HUGE relief for all of us, especially my daughter. She was relieved to hear she is dyslexic. It gave her answers that made sense and it gave me many of the answers I needed to get her the help she needed. DD was in school from 4k through 5th grade. She had loving teachers (mostly) and a really great school...for NT kids. I loved that school and got close with many of DD's teachers. And yet, as loving and supportive as they were, they could not teach her to read. And because I didn't get her evaluated until mid-5th grade the labels she got were not useful. She was labeling herself as "stupid" and "incapable" and "useless". Her teachers were labeling her as "slow" and "unfocused" and "needing to try harder" even though she was working harder than any of her classmates. How are those labels better than being labeled as dyslexic? I finally put my foot down, got an evaluation, got answers, got that "label" and it was awesome. It gave us a more productive path to follow. DD went from struggling horrifically to read even 1st grade level books at the end of 5th grade to reading young adult novels 2 years later. And that would not have happened without evaluations. The label was not my goal. Answers were.

Yes. I think it is sort of like when you very first learn to drive a car. There is no muscle memory, or procedural memory, etc. You have to think about every.single.thing. you are doing from moment to moment. Where is the brake pedal? How hard and how quickly do you need to press the accelerator? I need to turn left, what do I do? Oh, o.k. where is the turn signal indicator? Where are the other cars? How do I press on the accelerator? Hard or soft? Fast or slow? How far do I turn the steering wheel? A car cut me off. What do I do? Where are my mirrors? What do I check first and where is it located? Etc. When you are having to do all of these things and think about every single one of these things every single moment and nothing is automatic it can be confusing, distracting, and exhausting. That is why it takes time to get good at driving. Now take that same scenario but because of the way your brain works NONE of that every truly becomes automatic. You never really develop muscle memory or procedural memory. How exhausting and frustrating and even possibly dangerous would it be every time you had to drive your car?

This. Before cancer, it didn't take much effort to get dressed, complete daily tasks, remember to pick up the dry cleaning, etc. After cancer? I have a whole lot more sympathy for people with ADHD/ADD. Every single task takes mental energy. Just cooking dinner takes a massive amount of mental energy. And afterwards I would love to stop having to think and organize and complete tasks but the day isn't over. I have to keep going. It is sort of like every task takes the mental energy of studying for your PhD. Your brain is on a constant treadmill. By the end of the day, there is no energy left.

Actually, the mental energy thing is a factor I don't know that many take into consideration. When your brain is running full tilt, trying to focus on one specific task long enough to complete it takes a LOT of mental energy.

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: It isn't easy. Hang in there. :)

FWIW, DS only wears one kind of pants. They are stretchy, soft, black pants with an elasticized waist that I buy at Target. Even in our 100 plus degree summer/fall heat he wears these black pants and has for 4 years. He has sensory issues and prefers these pants. Instead of fighting him on it, which was very unproductive, I just made sure that every year he had several pairs of these pants.

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: