I think so. I don't know where your dd is at with writing skills, but what if you just simply focused on writing something small, polished and organized? Or, what about learning editing skills? Something like the iew fix it someone mentioned, or Daily Paragraph Editing? IOW, decide *what specific skills* your dd already has and where you need to go, and take a direct approach to those. Sometimes I think learning all of these itty bitty parts can distract you (general you) from seeing the big picture. It's nice to know how brakes and motors and things are all hooked up to a car, but sometimes you just need to climb in the front seat, turn the key, and drive! You can always add in a year of strict grammar somewhere down the line (a year or three later?)

Well... at the risk of tomatoes... I think Parts of Speech in the grand scheme of things is largely overrated. Some people do not learn Parts of Speech and go on to be great speakers and writers. Many public schools aren't teaching Parts of Speech anymore. From my experience with the ITBS (and I wonder if the CAT test is similar), Capitalization, Punctuation, Spelling, Vocab, and Correct Word Useage / Expression is covered, but not Parts of Speech. Now, maybe some of those statements above are arguments FOR studying Parts of Speech :lol: Every time I think about dropping Parts of Speech, a public school mom says to me "they don't teach that in schools anymore. My kids don't know what a noun is. I wish they did!" and then I pick it back up again. We are struggling with Parts of Speech (me included). Maybe we'll struggle through and look back some day and be glad we did it. I think you have to decide what is important for you both. One suggestion: what about learning songs while continuing with the mad libs? Schoolhouse Rock and all that... Then maybe the info in getting in there, even if you aren't making a connection yet with schoolwork.

The review sections in the BJU workbook are still by topic. So today, you might review addition. Tomorrow you might review multiplication. The next day you might review telling time. Of course, BJU's TM also has a ton of review (the teacher walks the student through at least 1 or more review concepts). I dunno. My kids were "let's just get it done, Mom" kind of kids. They always talked me out of doing review sections. And the re-teaching in the tm with me drove them crazy ("just give me my book so I can get it done"). What that meant was - if it was going to get done by the kids, it had to be on that 2-pg spread. I'm a bit of a push-over mom; after awhile of complaining and arguing, I finally just decided it wasn't worth it to me. Once the baby entered the mix, forget about it. I didn't have time / patience / energy to do squat from the TM anyway. Horizons was a better fit. I could spend 5 mins giving them the new concept, and jump in to help them as needed. BJU still looks so much more fun and hands on to me, but I learned to let go of that dream:)

I really liked BJU:) But I switched for several reasons - 1. the chapter by chapter building of the concepts (mastery). We were going sequentially, chapter by chapter. It caused us to grow further and further behind because we were still working thru contents we already knew, but couldn't exactly skip. BJU (and probably most school texts) teach the same concept as last year, but add in a few new things in ea chapter. So I never felt like we could skip anything ("Wait! Although we've already done Addition ad nauseum, 4th gr shows it a little differently this time. We can't skip that!") 2. the kids were really fed up with this math text, even though I was still enamored with it. This is nothing new, since the kids don't like math; I wasn't sure I should take them seriously :lol: . But when I laid out several math books to look at, they both liked Horizons best. I was a bit miffed since I hated Horizons with a passion, and thought it looked much harder than BJU. But I thought I'd give it a try. 3. the spiral of Horizons ended up being a much better fit for my girls. If I was a bit more skilled at using BJU, maybe I could've made it more spiral, more review to fit our needs. But for some reason, once I found my groove with Horizons, I felt pretty comfy with making it fit what I needed.

I had 2 children this year switching into Horizons from BJU. I did it differently with each child. 1 child was 1 or 2 years behind grade level in math. I spent a few months covering multiplication facts until they were solid. At this point, she would've tested into Horizons 4, but her age would've been gr 5 or 6 (fall bday, never sure where to put her). I skipped her into 5th gr. We started 5th slowly; I did a lot on the whiteboard with her, and cut down on the number of problems (stretching 1 lesson into 2 many times) until she gained in speed, ability, and confidence. I think she is probably caught up to grade level now and seems to have a firm understanding of the math. The other child was also about 1 grade behind in math. Her age would've put her in 3rd or 4th gr (another fall bday), and she would've tested in either Gr 2 Book 2 Horizons or Gr 3 Horizons. The only reason she might have needed the 2nd gr book was that she wasn't firm in her multiplication facts. We drilled for a few months, & at the same time, I put her in Gr 3. When it got really easy and repetitious for her, we'd skip a few lessons. Or, I'd let her test out of the last 10 lessons by jumping her to the next test. We spent a year on gr 3, and are now finally in Gr 4. Some tough topics were introduced in Gr 3, so I'm glad we did that level instead of Gr 4. Gr 4 ended up being waay too easy for the first 40 lessons (lots of review of 2nd & 3rd gr topics), but I decided I would rather spend the time on Gr 3 Book 2 skills than all of the review in Gr 4 Book 1. So we spent extra time in Gr 3 Book 2, and then passed out of the first 40 lessons in Gr 4. Now we're hitting hard topics again, so we'll camp out here for awhile. So I guess what I'm saying is: You can get the 2nd gr book and speed thru the easy stuff - with the idea that you really want to establish those skills. Or, you could get the 3rd gr book with the idea that you'll camp out on harder topics, divide lessons up for awhile, or even pull in extra supplementary work if needed.

Well...I can share our story if it helps. Both DDs have fall bdays. I struggle every year with the grade level label for them because it just doesnt match up right for every situation. So here's what I do: I explain that their bday falls just before the state cutoff so we get to pick the right place for them. The 11yo just grad'd the awana program (6th gr) and should be starting youth group. We have decided to put youth group on hold for at least a yr because it isnt a good fit for her. She understands this. At one vbs we do every year, I put her in the younger group for social reasons. All boys are in the older group, lol, and I think this would be a miserable age group to put her in. Our 1st Iowa test I gave 1 grade level behind. She scored very well, so the next year I bumped her into the higher grade level for her age. She tested some categories above avg, mostly average, and a bit behind in math. In other words, I treat her as going in to 6th/7th grade, and she understands that we get to pick so that whatever the situation, it is the right one for her.

Awesome:) That's exactly what I envision: me pulling stuff together beforehand, kids working thru the schedule as they are able, me answering the occasional question, gathering the occasional item, or pulling everyone together for an experiment or project. Cooking projects would happen in the evening as a family. My oldest is an early riser / get it done kinda gal; my younger is a late riser / don't talk to me until noon kinda gal. It makes group projects more difficult :lol:

Next year, I'll have a 10 yo and 12 yo, and I am thinking of doing MFW ECC. I'll also have a 3yo in the mix, and have found it difficult to be on call and in demand for my older two during school hours. I make Math and Language Arts our priority for my attention; but next year, I'm hoping to make Spelling and Writing more independent. Would two older students be able to follow the teacher manual and day to day instructions in MFW ECC? I expect to do some guiding here and there, but I do not want to have lessons that are completely dependent on me "teaching" them. Also, the kids tend to do their schoolwork on their own timetable, so getting both of them to do the same activity at the same time is very difficult. I would hope we'd have some days that we could do things together, but not every day. Am I delusional for even looking at MFW? I've been looking at the tm samples and it looks do-able, but maybe I'm missing something. I love all the checklists:) My kids and I are checklist people.

Thanks! She's back in diapers.

Can you stand one more potty training question from me? Dd (1-week away from turning 3!) decided it was time. It began over a week ago, she'd take off her diaper after she peed and then put herself in underwear. When she needed to pee, she'd ask for a diaper, go, and then put on undies again. To get her to use the potty, I gave 1 m&m for every pee in the potty. She even began pooping on the potty last week (that was worth 2 m&ms, lol!) So I thought we were trained. She was letting me know when she needed to go, and it was a beautiful thing. Now...:confused: She wears undies, but refuses to go in the potty. She holds it for 2hours and then lets go on the floor. She's now pooping in her pants, too. Nothing can bribe her to use the potty. I started withholding everything she asks for until she uses the potty ("outside?" "use the potty" "drink?" "use the potty" "eat?" "use the potty", etc.) After much time and turmoil, she'll eventually use the potty. Or, she won't and messes my floor. Sigh. Help! Now what? When I ask her to use the potty she says "I don't want to use the potty". Or, "I used it already!" (5 hours ago...).

Health Is there any reason why I should use a Health curric? I've had "the talk" with the girls (turning 10 & 12 this fall). It is an on-going, open discussion, as they know I'm not embarrassed to talk about it:) We talk about puberty, we talk about strong emotions and how that will be affected by what's happening in their bodies. We talk about relationships, romance, the s** word. We talk about our religious beliefs (we're Christian) and how that affects our decisions in regards to boyfriends, marriage, babies; but also how other people may not make those same decisions (unwed moms, giving babies up for adoption, etc.) I've lost 50 lbs this year, and yeah, that's sparked a whole lot of talk about making healthy eating choices, exercise, etc. We talk about drug addiction, and other choices we make in life that can lead to addiction if we aren't careful (overeating, video games, gambling, alcohol, etc.) We wear seatbelts in the car, helmets on our heads when we bike, and talk about making good, safe choices in every day life. So. Is there any reason why I would need a Health curriculum? I remember my Health education in public school and can sum it up in one word: Lame. We watched outdated movies about our bodies and giggled. In 7th grade (when everything mattered) we had to sing this stupid song in class to boost our self confidence ("I am special"). And in 8th gr, we watched a movie about 2 mentally retarded people that wanted to get married. I guess I wonder if there is any value in a Health curric? I'm not sure why the heavy focus on self-esteem; does this really boost student self esteem? Ok, so...if we need a Health curric, can you suggest a good one? BTW, we use Elemental Science Biology and will be hitting the human body unit soon, but I don't think Health is a part of it.

A Trip Around the World Another Trip Around the World We plan to get these 2 books and just pick the countries we want to study.

Thanks - I'll try that. She's peed on the potty before (and pooped, too - which is usually the hardest thing to get past). She knows how. I really do think she was just being difficult. Yesterday it was easter candy tantrums, and today it's this. Sigh.

You are experiencing a very real loss, and you are allowed to mourn it as such. It's OK to be sad - give yourself time to grieve. I'm sorry :( :grouphug:

I posted the other day: How to Know When Your DC are NOT Ready to Potty Train. After that thread and the great answers, I thought - I'm content to keep her in dipes until summer, and maybe the problem is *mine*, not hers (maybe Mama isn't ready yet). Well, today she peed in her diaper, got out of it, found some underwear somewhere in the house, put them on, and resolved that she was going to use the potty. Fine. So I went with it. She sat on the potty - nothing. Oh well, try again later. An hour later, she's grabbing herself, crying "I NEED A DIAPER!" I give her the option: pee in the potty, or go in a diaper? She cries for a diaper. I get her one. She refuses to get in the diaper. But she also refuses to sit on the potty. She wants back in underwear, is crying and tantruming, but won't wear a diaper OR go on the potty. Crap. So I forced her in a diaper and let her cry. It's like dd #1 all over again. I think this may be more of a behavior issue than a potty training issue. I'm a people-pleasing, bend over backwards kind of parent. I find it very difficult to be disciplinarian. I tend to treat my dc like mini adults, capable of making their own decisions. But often it doesn't go well, and I end up having to take away choices, and put my foot down. I think I'm going to destroy my dd's chances of potty training for life :lol:

Just wanted to chime in with been there, doing that! I have an 11yo dd. She's always been resistant to writing, although I don't think it is hard for her. She can write a paragraph very quickly (5 mins), but it is all lowercase letters (except Bs and Ds, which are capitalized mid-word, lol). So it isn't an issue of being *able* to write, just simply a problem of getting the mechanics down. I treat it as two separate skills: write out your thoughts however they land on the paper, and then go back, erase all the first letters in sentences and capitalize them. Oh, and go back and fix those Bs and Ds (those drive me nuts). She was a bit late to get over letter reversals, but eventually outgrew it around age 10. I battled the idea that maybe she was dyslexic or dysgraphic or dys-something:) But then I showed some fellow homeschool moms her writing and they all said it was normal (and some of their dc were much worse). Sometimes I think hanging out on WTM forums gives me a very unrealistic expectation for my dc. Everyone else's dc spell brilliantly and write brilliantly. I'd be ashamed to show you all how my 11yo and 9yo spell words. As dh reassured me, though, our dc write better than most of his co-workers, lol. ETA: we have been doing Evan-Moor's Daily Paragraph Editing all year long. She's great at fixing their errors:)

Thanks, Wapiti! I have a much better idea of how this works now. I think I'll wait for some sunny 80 degree days and then she'll spend the week outside half naked (thank goodness for country living). I had a nightmare strong willed 1st born child, too. I'm still not sure how I might have done it differently with her. Is there some sort of medal for this? If not, there should be :lol:

She was born at 30wks (2 lbs 14oz). She was a late walker (17.5 mos). ETA: She's smart as a button, but I learned long ago not to look at the developmental milestone charts for this one:) Most of the time, she can be completely wet and not notice. But lately, she's very particular about being wet, strips naked every time she pees in a diaper. I've seen her go thru these stages before, and thought maybe I should catch this opportunity to try. Plus, she's been super excited about the bag full of undies I had packed away from her older sisters, and putting them on herself. Seems ready, right? She can pee on the potty, but it isn't a daily thing (most of the time, doesn't want to bother). If she pulls on the panties and decides to try, she might sit on the potty for a few minutes, not pee, and then hike off somewhere and pee on my floor. Not cool. So I was trying to figure out if this was a "not ready" thing, or a behavioral issue thing. After the experience I had training my 1st dd (sheesh!!!), I know now in hindsight that not all potty problems are related to readiness issues.

Can you elaborate? Do you just clean up umpteen zillion messes, or keep them outside half naked? I'm considering this for us, but must wait for summer days because my floor can't take anymore accidents:)

I've read all of the signs that say my child IS ready to potty train - but how do you know that they are NOT ready to potty train? You know, they match all the readiness signs, but....(fill in the blank). Thanks! (BTW, my own little potty trainer is turning 3 in 3 weeks, has all the readiness signs, but something just seems to be amiss somehow. Not sure if it's her, me, or both of us).

:bigear:

I always thought I would teach my children this way, but it never felt very organized or the kids would be completely unenthused so I'd drop it. But I think we might be trying this again soon with geography - my 9yo wants to study world cultures, languages, and cooking. So we'll see... I think the problem the kids have had with unit studies is the lack of checkoff boxes. Or, perhaps our unit study would go better if I gave them boxes to check off :D Interesting idea (sounds like it could make a good title for a homeschooling book, lol!)

Thanks for listing all of that - it does look like a lot! But it's a good list to start with, and then see if some things can get combined, dropped, or rotated. I think I'm panicing because one of mine is starting to head into the 7-9th gr years (she's a fall bday and could be 6th or 7th next year). I'm wondering "did I hit all those elementary subjects well enough to prepare her? Do we need one more super-cram year before hitting 7th? I think this is a very good idea. We do a homeschool co-op every 2 weeks on Friday, so our weeks fall into this pattern: 5 days / 4 days / 5 days / 4 days. But we also fit some school in during the summer, so maybe doing 4 days / 3 days wouldn't be terrible. One thing I've discovered this year (happy little accident) is that by working in 6-week blocks, it lends itself nicely to 6, 12, or 18 week block segments for subjects. I didn't plan it out that way this year, but hope to utilize that next year. Just have to wrap my brain around what we're doing, first. This looks much more do-able. I think that gets to the heart of my situation: this would give us the structure and independence we need. It would also free me up to spend that time on things we'd all enjoy learning together as a family. Thanks, Lori!

Through the Looking Glass, too. I love the Annotated Alice - lots of fun facts along the sidebars. Most of the other author's writings are dull (math, logic), but Sylvie and Bruno isn't bad (I rather liked some of the humor in it, but it's heavier and more instructional than Alice). Some of the writings during the same time period (although different) might be worthy of reading, such as George MacDonald The Princess and the Goblin, Princess and Curdie (I can't remember too much about these at the moment, but I liked them). There's the Wizard of Oz series (goes along with the person transported to another place scenario). The Narnia series, if she hasn't read that yet.

A PP asked about non paper methods for the kids - I'll throw out a suggestion, although I haven't really tried it: Google Calendar. Google Forms might work, too. With Google Calendar, you can use your calendar as the master calendar, and then set up a subcalendar for each child. Then, you can plug all of your subjects and timeframes for completion into that child's calendar. You can view your calendar so that everyone's calendars show simultaneously, or just look at one calendar at a time. You can set up reminders to pop up, and you (or your child) would have to hit dismiss on each one. Or, you could create a Google form (under Google Docs), and create a neat little checklist with boxes that could be checked. When finished, the boxes would be checked and child could hit "submit". That data gets put into a spreadsheet, complete with a time stamp. It's an interesting idea, because I never thought about using Google Forms for something like that.