Credit questions about outsourced classes

[Penelope]

Do you generally give credits according to what the provider or curriculum writer suggests?

What about honors designation?

 

Does it make a difference if the provider is accredited or not?

 

Just thinking of some examples:

 

Veritas Press gives 3 credits for doing primary and secondary omnibus, but only one credit if one does either of these. Why not an additional half credit of theology/religion when one book is done?

Kolbe gives honors credit, as far as I can tell, for sciences and maths for essentially covering more ground at a slightly faster pace.

Roman Roads gives two credits for going through four modules each year. That seems generous, without any additional class time? But then, maybe they are including discussion time with parents, which would make sense.

 

I have looked at co-ops that assign a year's credit for what seems, to me, not a whole credit worth of work, or assigned two credits for one class for the same academic area (based on hours?).

 

In fact, when I think of all the examples (and these are just a few) that surprise me, it is usually because they seem to me to be over-assigning credit. This makes me think that maybe my idea of the amount of work required is skewed and too strict.

 

Though one example I can think of to the contrary is EIL, where the student is expected to read a large number of books compared to a regular English class, and many more than that to get honors designation.

 

So, do you give the credits suggested, or do you go by what you think is appropriate? Does it depend what subject it is? How do you decide? Do you keep track of hours on your own time to confirm time spent? I feel like that will be very difficult to do accurately. I know that ultimately it is my decision as I make the transcript, but I want to keep high standards while being fair.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Penelope

[EKS]

If the provider is an accredited, credit granting institution, I'd use whatever amount of credit is shown on their transcript.

 

If the provider is not both accredited and credit granting (or is neither), I would grant the amount of credit I thought was reasonable for the work that was done--without exceeding the recommended amount.

[laughing lioness]

I go by what I use the curriculum for. I go by Carnegie Units- 120 hours =1 credit (roughly). It seems like a lot of co-ops skimp on time and content. 

Honors means the kids have done more work than what a full credit coursewould require, at a higher critical thinking level. 

[counselinggirl]

:lurk5:  Good questions! Listening.....

[Julie of KY]

I agree with Kai - if the provider is going to provide a transcript then go with the credit assigned.

 

If you are assigning credit, I would not go above the amount of credit the provider states it is, but feel free to lower it. I think the amount of work done for an English credit is often on the high side so I take my 1 credit Center for Lit course, my multiple partial credit Brave Writer courses and whatever else I assign and lump it all together as a 1 credit English course. In my course description I might specify how many credits outside providers claim it to be or just ignore it.

[G5052]

Generally I go with the suggestions unless I have a reason not to.

 

My oldest did VPSA Omnibus, and I put down just two credits. Their third was for theology, and I chose not to put that sort of class on his transcript, but my preference is to give them a religiously neutral transcript as much as possible. VPSA is identified as the source of the class, but I didn't specifically identify it as a Christian school. They are accredited, but I didn't indicate that.

 

My younger one does a local history/lit class that also recommended a credit for writing. I choose to combine and call it just "Medieval Literature and Composition" for one credit. Last year she also had AP Composition taken elsewhere, and she got "Modern History," "Modern Literature," and "AP English Composition" on her transcript. I didn't think that it was good to put on too much of the same type of writing in one year. It would be different if she had "Modern Literature and Writing" and then took a poetry class. This year she'll have "Ancient History," "Ancient History and Composition," and she's doing a "Novels of the 20th Century" class with me as an elective. She's also a T.A. this year for AP Composition, so that will be listed in her activities. So a lot of English, but different classes and activities, so I'm fine with that much for 12th grader.

[Penelope]

That makes sense.

 

It seems that what I have noticed isn't uncommon, then. It does have me curious as to how homeschoolers and schools are determining credit and what is credit-worthy. I assume an accredited school has some basis for how they assign credit, and I wish I knew how they decided. Are they, too, going by Carnegie units and time?

 

 

 

So I have a related question: some of the classes my child has taken have transcripts, but the "transcript" is a matter of the name of the school, class, year, and letter grade, printed off my home printer. Am I right in thinking that no college is going to ask for transcripts unless they are from a college/DE? If an outsourced course has a transcript from a local teacher/co-op or an online school, accredited, I will keep them on file, but will I need to explain the difference in the credit I assigned vs. what the transcript says when I write the course descriptions, or does it not matter?

[carlamom2ansnm]

So I have a related question: some of the classes my child has taken have transcripts, but the "transcript" is a matter of the name of the school, class, year, and letter grade, printed off my home printer. Am I right in thinking that no college is going to ask for transcripts unless they are from a college/DE? If an outsourced course has a transcript from a local teacher/co-op or an online school, accredited, I will keep them on file, but will I need to explain the difference in the credit I assigned vs. what the transcript says when I write the course descriptions, or does it not matter?

 

Bumping this. I'm curious about this too. For example, my daughter is taking two Wilson Hill classes this year. Well, you can graduate from Wilson Hill, but she's not doing that. Do I just list the courses as if they were taken at our private school, or am I going to have to list them as if they are transferred in from Wilson Hill?

[Lori D.]

 

...So I have a related question: some of the classes my child has taken have transcripts, but the "transcript" is a matter of the name of the school, class, year, and letter grade, printed off my home printer. Am I right in thinking that no college is going to ask for transcripts unless they are from a college/DE? If an outsourced course has a transcript from a local teacher/co-op or an online school, accredited, I will keep them on file, but will I need to explain the difference in the credit I assigned vs. what the transcript says when I write the course descriptions, or does it not matter?

 

Yes: transcripts that colleges DO want are official transcripts from accredited schools -- so:

- community college

- university

- local brick-and-mortar high school (public, private, charter) -- whether just 1 or a few individual classes or a full load/complete semester(s) or year(s)

- correspondence school or umbrella/cover organization that is officially doing your record-keeping/transcripts

- and *possibly* the official transcript from a vocational-tech or trade school

 

No: transcripts colleges are UNlikely to want would be from 1 or more classes from:

- homeschool co-ops

- local tutor or individual outside the home overseeing course(s)

- online course providers (whether small private teachers or tutorials such as Captive Thought Tutorials, or larger organizations such as The Potter's School, WTM Academy, Wilson Hill, etc.)

 

Some of these options just don't provide transcripts (i.e. -- co-ops and tutors), although they may provide a certificate of completion. Yes, it's good to have something in your files from this second category of course providers that you can show if needed, but it is very unlikely that colleges are looking for transcripts beyond the official transcripts from other universities, community colleges or brick-and-mortar high schools (or official record-keeping correspondence schools/cover organizations).

 

On your own transcript, you would want to make a notation of courses completed through a community college/university, or a brick-and-mortar high school, or an online provider. You would NOT need to note on your transcript a course done with an individual tutor or through a homeschool co-op. For all courses, you would include a sentence of explanation in your separate Course Description document of how the course was accomplished -- that would be the place to mention how the class was done at home, OR, if a class were done with a local co-op or a tutor or some other outside the home course provider.

 

Here's a partial transcript example with DE, local high school, and online provider classes in addition to homeschool courses -- because it is not mentioned in the footnoting, you would list somewhere that "unless otherwise noted, all courses were completed through home education in compliance with state homeschool regulation xxx-xxx" (<--- your state homeschool statute #).

 

MATH

course . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . credit . . . . grade . . completion date

Algebra 1 . . . . . . . . .1.00 . . . . x

Geometry  . . . . . . . . 1.00 . . . . x

Algebra 2 . . . . . . . . . 1.00 . . . . x

Pre-Calculus* . . . . . .1.00 . . . . x

AP Calculus AB* . . . 1.00 . . . . x . . . with test score of x on date of: 00/00/00

total credit / GPA . . 4.00   /  0.0000

* = course completed through ABC High School, City, State

______________

SCIENCE

course . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . credit . . . . grade . . completion date

Biology . . . . . . . . . . .1.00 . . . . x

Advanced Biology . .1.00 . . . . x

CHM130** . . . . . . . .1.00 . . . . x

PHY121** . . . . . . . . 1.00 . . . . x

total credit / GPA . . 4.00   /  0.0000

** = course completed through XYZ Community College, City, State

______________

Foreign Language

course .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  credit .  .  . grade . . . completion date

French 1 ***. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1.00 . . . B . . . . . 06-2014

French 2 *** . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.00 . . . A . . . . . 06-2015

French 3 **** . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1.00 . . . A . . . . . 05-2016

French 4 ****. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.00 . . . A . . . . . 05-2017

TOTAL CREDITS / GPA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4.00 / 3.75

*** = course completed through online provider: Wilson Hill Academy

**** = course completed through online provider: The Potter's School

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by Lori D.

[Lori D.]

I go by what I use the curriculum for. I go by Carnegie Units- 120 hours =1 credit (roughly). It seems like a lot of co-ops skimp on time and content. 

Honors means the kids have done more work than what a full credit coursewould require, at a higher critical thinking level. 

 

Totally agree about co-ops frequently skimping on time and content, and also on the definition of "honors". :)

 

Just want to add, in case anyone is not familiar with the Carnegie Unit, that the Carnegie Unit refers to the minimum teacher/classroom contact hours for 1 credit -- it is usually understood that there will ALSO be additional work done *outside of class* that counts towards the credit.

 

Per its original definition, the Carnegie Unit is 120 hours of class or contact time with an instructor over the course of a year at the secondary (American high school) level. Strictly speaking, this breaks down into a single one-hour meeting, on each of five days per week for a total of 24 weeks per year. However, knowing that classes usually meet for 50 minutes yields a value of 30 weeks per year. However, further complicating the computation is the fact that American schools typically meet 180 days, or 36 academic weeks, a year. A semester (one-half of a full year) earns 1/2 a Carnegie Unit. — "Carnegie Unit and Student Hour", Wikipedia

 

So 120 hours is generally considered the *minimum* for 1 credit, while 180 hours (1 hour**/day x 5 days/week x 36 weeks/school year) as a *maximum* for 1 credit (** note -- regular homework is assumed to fill up that "50-minute class hour" to a full 1 hour of time).

 

I find this chart of credit-hours helpful in determining a rough equivalency in credits (time-wise, not volume-of-work-wise, or rigor-of-thinking-wise) going on the transcript and for helping to determine "Honors" designations:

. . . . . . . . . . . .lite . . . average . . rigorous

1.00 credit = 120 . . . 150 . . . 180  hours

0.75 credit =   90 . . . 110 . . . 135  hours

0.66 credit =   80 . . . 100 . . . 120  hours

0.50 credit =   60 . . . . 75 . . . . 90  hours

0.33 credit =   40 . . . . 50 . . . . 60  hours

0.25 credit =   30 . . . . 35 . . . . 45  hours

 

Hope that is of help! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Lori D.

[carlamom2ansnm]

GREAT information for this mom with her first high schooler! Thank you Lori D.! 

[Penelope]

Thank you so much, Lori D.! You are the best! That is super helpful.

 

I am super curious at the thought process of college admissions personnel when they evaluate homeschool transcripts.

I would assume that since co-ops are so generous with assigning credits, and that so many people seem to heavily use co-ops, that homeschool transcripts will many times reflect this. And since homeschoolers are in such small numbers, having higher standards for giving credits may not be recognized by admissions. It also makes me think that for plenty of schools, it might mostly come down to test scores and DE, and why that is actually an understandable approach.

[Lori D.]

I am super curious at the thought process of college admissions personnel when they evaluate homeschool transcripts... It also makes me think that for plenty of schools, it might mostly come down to test scores and DE, and why that is actually an understandable approach.

 

I think that's true for college admissions offices when considering public/private/charter high school transcripts as well. What one school calls "honors" is barely minimal for a credit at a different school. ACT/SAT scores and APs (and DE) are all that are standardized enough for college admission offices to determine about real performance for students from public/private/charter high schools, too. ;)

 

 

...I would assume that since co-ops are so generous with assigning credits, and that so many people seem to heavily use co-ops, that homeschool transcripts will many times reflect this. And since homeschoolers are in such small numbers, having higher standards for giving credits may not be recognized by admissions...

 

As far as homeschool co-ops... I really don't know what most people do for counting credit. Although I've sometimes seen homeschoolers (locally and on these boards) say they plan on counting a 12-, 15-, 18-, or 24-hour co-op class, or short special DVD program, or a special weekend community course, as a 0.5 credit -- and they plan for it to count for that much credit as a stand-alond, with no plans to supplement/fill it out. I don't think they realize that such a brief amount of work doesn't even hit the minimum hours for a "lite" 0.25 credit.

 

Based on that (which I've seen more than once!), I would say there are also homeschoolers who are NOT using higher standards for giving credits. So, as a result, I sure wouldn't think that college admission offices could automatically think "Oh, homeschool transcript! Higher rigor!" ;)

 

That's where I think course descriptions, or even a portfolio of sample work, can be very helpful for college admissions officers -- for homeschoolers, as well as public/private/charter students. But since they don't have the time for that, then ACT/SAT test scores, SATIIs, APs, dual enrollment, and activities will have to work to give them a picture of the student's abilities...

 

 

BEST of luck in sorting everything out to come to what works for YOU and your family in your homeschool high school administration hat-wearing!  :hat:  Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Lori D.