I need help with a language arts plan

[Seeking Squirrels]

DD has SPD, ADHD, and still waiting for eval for HFA and/or an LD (really not sure what, her OT suggested the possibility). She is an advanced but reluctant reader. She is a reluctant writer and her skills and endurance are behind though she's caught up a lot over the last year. Our LA has always been all over with us giving up on things because they result in more meltdowns than progress.

 

Here's what we've done:

First grade:

FLL1, she didn't mind the content or format, but it was a bit too repetitive. I should have just skipped or accelerated, but we dropped it about 1/3 of the way through.

WWE1, she melted down over the amount of writing. Made it through week 10.

She wanted to do cursive so we got NAC, but we were not consistent. I dropped the ball here.

We started AAS1 around May and she did well with it.

We did MBtP after dropping FLL and WWE. We did about a semester of that, taking us to Feb.

Feb/Mar we needed a change and switched her over to Time4Learning for pretty much everything.

We went back to HWT in the summer and started the 1st gr book. I intended to get her through it over the summer and do level 2 for 2nd, but she's gone through it pretty slowly.

We did a little bit of Language Smarts B over the summer.

**Yes, 1st gr was a lot of me dropping the ball and inconsistency which has helped put us where we are. That was a rough year with getting dx'd and starting OT and transitioning to "real" school from optional K.**

 

Second grade

Continued with AAS, she's on level 2 now. That's going okay.

Continued with HWT, she's still on the first grade book, though.

Evan Moore 6-trait writing - By the end of the first section (out of 5), she was having huge meltdowns if I even got out the book, so we dropped it. I had even started scribing for her to just work on forming sentences and then letting her copy the final work, but it was a no-go.

Evan Moore grammar and punctuation. This is okay, but she finds it boring. We still pull it out here and there, but it often feels like busy work with no retention. We're about halfway through it.

I pulled Language Smarts B back out a few weeks ago and she's been really enjoying that, so I'm letting her do that instead of the EM book. She's about halfway through B. I now have C, but I'm worried about switching her because there seems to be a lot more writing.

Copywork was suggested to me recently, so I got back out WWE1, but we've only done one day of it.

 

So..... I need a solid plan for LA that doesn't feel like we're floundering all over. I'm looking for now and 3rd grade planning. She's now doing 1st grade stuff for handwriting, writing/copywork, and grammar. Do I need to move her to 2nd gr.  or can we just continue with the 1st grade level materials? If we stay with 1st, do we then get 2nd, even if that's approaching the start of 3rd? Or do we then jump to where she "should" be? Do I push to get through more to get caught up? Or just plan on being a year behind in these subjects for the foreseeable future? 

 

I was thinking:

Finish LS B and then move to either FLL2, LS C, or MCT Island....? (Or 3rd gr of FLL or LS?) Recommendations?

Work though WWE1, but maybe just the copywork pages for now, not worrying about the narration or readings. Just to work on building her writing stamina. 2x a week? 4? Then moving to WWE2. Just copywork, or full program? Or level 3? Something else?

Handwriting: HWT 2nd? or give NAC another go? ZB?

 

I know this has turned long and I'm sorry and thank you if you've stuck it out! LA really overwhelms me, especially with the asynchronicity of high reading level and comprehension and low level output. Any advice or recommendations is appreciated.

[KSinNS]

What I did for my kid at that age who was a reluctant writer was focussed on reading and spelling (I used A&P but wouldn't switch if you like what you have). We did HWOT every day and copy book and freewriting each once a week. I scribed when she needed help. Just pull copybook out of what she is reading. We started R&S 3 for grammar and writing this year (Grade 4) now that she has more stamina. It has a ton of practice with sentence writing and mechanics, and with her better stamina she is doing well. R&S is pretty advanced, so a grade behind is fine, and the grade 3 book is a really good one. It is dull but covers everything. And the lessons are a good length.

 

My next kid D will be in grade 3 next year, and I will spend lots of time on copy book and start formal spelling. He writes better, but reads less well. He is also much older for his grade, so I may start R&S 3 for writing and grammar. I'll have to see where he is in the fall.

[nature girl]

My DD is similar to yours, also ADHD, a great reader but behind in writing. Probably because of the ADHD, she's unable to sit still for copywork, and HWT was torture for us...

 

Have you considered Bravewriter? We're doing Jot it Down this year, which DD loves, but your DD would probably be ready for Partnership Writing, and along with Quiver of Arrows it would be a complete LA program. It works well for us because it's NOT boring, like most other LA programs, it's very gentle and allows for a ton of creativity. In Partnership, the child can do as much of the writing as she has stamina/attention for, and the adult does the rest, so I think it would work well in increasing stamina as you go along.

 

You might also want to take a look at the "Fun Writing" thread I started on the K-8 board a couple of days ago, because people had some great suggestions for us. I've bought this set based on that thread: http://www.rfwp.com/series/aesops-fables-books-about-reading-writing-thinking#book-aesops-fables-my-book-about-reading-writing-thinking-vol-iIt looks creative enough to hold her interest, and hopefully when we're done with the set she'll be ready for MCT along with Partnership Writing.

[PeterPan]

Ok, what I'm first looking for in your list is what's going WELL.  That to me would be really instructive.  So AAS is going well.  She's on grade level.  Is she reading and AAS is just for her spelling, or are you using AAS to do both?  How is her reading going?  (I'm thinking ok we can exclude SLD reading maybe?)  

 

So then she's bored with FLL.  That too is a good sign!  These things in your list where it's like too slow, bored, that's good!  That means she's bright, and it means maybe she doesn't have a language disability.  That's GOOD!  My dd was like that, whizzing through certain things, so I know how that feels.  And when we say no language disability, that's good.  

 

So then we look at what's NOT working, and your common, common thread here is writing.  I'll tell you, my ds is like that, where it's like you don't get it, I would have to put him back 2 years for him to be able to do the handwriting, takes forever, just horrible, can't put my finger on why but it's AWFUL, and he gets an SLD writing (dysgraphia) label.  

 

I think when you have that combo of something glitching up the writing but super bright and no language disability, you're going to have to separate them out.  You're going to have to make a plan that acknowledges how BRIGHT she is and lets her go forward but DISCONNECTS the writing.  So that would mean lots of scribing, using dictation technology, and making the projects more advanced.  

 

Given what you're describing, I'd also put grade adjustment on the table.  And maybe you don't have to.  Maybe you adjust for the dysgraphia and everything suddenly comes together.  But I'm just saying grade adjustment is NOT the end of the world.  That possible HFA thing tells you there could be more going on there.  What's the rush?  There is none. 

 

Also, I want to say this somehow, but I think you're caught in a trap.  Right now your list looks like you went to K-8, read the posts, saw what the approach was, and did it all with your kid.  And when you do that, yes you can have problems with it not fitting the kid.  I think the other thing, the even harder thing though to deal with, is the INSECURITY it breeds in you.  Read back through your post and see it.  It's this idea that she wouldn't be behind if you had been more faithful.  She wouldn't be behind if you had chosen better.  She wouldn't be behind if...  

 

And I'm saying she'd be behind ANYWAY.  

 

You've got to GET OFF the curriculum rat race.  It's this guinea pig wheel people get on, a hamster thing, like I'm running, I'm running, I'm doing, I'm doing.  Well ARE you accomplishing anything?  Or did you really just list 20 different curricula where NONE of them helped her take a step forward?  

 

So I think you have to re-examine this, and tell yourself that you ARE a good homeschooler, that you have been as consistent as SHE was ready for, that her challenges are intrinsic to HER and not your fault.  I think you should buy/attempt nothing she's not actually ready for.  I think you should free yourself from the grade level paradigm, because it's not serving her well.  Think about her obvious IQ.  The testing will tell you, but I'm just saying you're saying the things that show us this girl is bright.  So when you get that discrepancy between what her brain wants to do and what her body is READY to do, that gets really ugly in a grade level system.  So you have to get OFF that crazy track.  

 

She is who she is.  She needs to work where her brain is and where her body is.  She needs to have expectations (grade level, academic) that fit her REALITY.  My *personal* opinion is that bright SN dc should be placed such that they're ROCK STARS.  Why, why, why should she be a defective, downtrodden, failing 3rd grader if she could be a rock star 1st grader?  Or 2nd grader. 

 

And the reason I think that, is because I think if you're patient, I think if you work with them exactly where they are, when they're this bright, it IS going to work together.  But if you DISCOURAGE them by doing things they aren't ready for and doing things they could do but in ways they aren't ready for, it's not quite the same.  My ds has an agemate friend in the ps with SLDs, and that boy goes home every day saying I'm a failure.  My ds has more SLDs, and he doesn't even know his disabilities.  All he knows is we do lots of things that WORK.  And we'll keep going, and eventually it will pan out in the wash.

 

Do not let the grade level thing and the curriculum rat race on K-8 become your definition of WHETHER YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB.  You can do a GOOD JOB and do things really, really, really differently from that, ok?  Like REALLY differently.  You don't need ANY of that stuff you listed to help her progress, NONE.  It's all distracting.  You need a few things that she's actually ready to do, done in ways that engage her, and done with technology and accommodations that respect her disabilities.  That's ALL you need.  Honest.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[kbutton]

My son (ASD, gifted, ADHD) couldn't do much writing until fairly recently. He's in 6th grade, and he started with a tutor last year. He does like doing the pieces and parts, but the problem comes with going way to broad or having nothing to say as well as coming up with topic sentences, concluding sentences, etc. At least the topic/concluding sentences are related to the ASD. We opted to work on sentence combining (like Easy Grammar does and Easy Writing), Wordsmith Apprentice, outlining, etc. We bought The Reader's Handbook and have discussed how text is structured so that it makes some sense to him what he ought to put in. He is using Inspiration Software for graphic organizers/mindmapping. I think we are going to use the new Kilgallon Middle School nonfiction book. (I think it's like their paragraph book.) 

 

He likes editing work and coming up with better ways to say something. The bigger problem is organizing those thoughts and getting them out of his head. Narration early on would have helped with that a lot, I think.

 

I would have started dictation and narration early if I'd really known better how to do it. 

 

We love MCT. We do have to do some additional work on mechanics (he really needs to see mechanics in a variety of contexts), but MCT has made him enjoy grammar and see it as something really cool.

 

We are now reasonably proficient with typing, so we do all spelling or dictation on the computer. That's a tremendous help. I am not sure he would have been proficient at typing prior to vision therapy, but now he's flying.

[Seeking Squirrels]

What I did for my kid at that age who was a reluctant writer was focussed on reading and spelling (I used A&P but wouldn't switch if you like what you have). We did HWOT every day and copy book and freewriting each once a week. I scribed when she needed help. Just pull copybook out of what she is reading. We started R&S 3 for grammar and writing this year (Grade 4) now that she has more stamina. It has a ton of practice with sentence writing and mechanics, and with her better stamina she is doing well. R&S is pretty advanced, so a grade behind is fine, and the grade 3 book is a really good one. It is dull but covers everything. And the lessons are a good length.

 

My next kid D will be in grade 3 next year, and I will spend lots of time on copy book and start formal spelling. He writes better, but reads less well. He is also much older for his grade, so I may start R&S 3 for writing and grammar. I'll have to see where he is in the fall.

 

I see R&S mentioned a lot. We're secular, how religious is their LA?

 

My DD is similar to yours, also ADHD, a great reader but behind in writing. Probably because of the ADHD, she's unable to sit still for copywork, and HWT was torture for us...

 

Have you considered Bravewriter? We're doing Jot it Down this year, which DD loves, but your DD would probably be ready for Partnership Writing, and along with Quiver of Arrows it would be a complete LA program. It works well for us because it's NOT boring, like most other LA programs, it's very gentle and allows for a ton of creativity. In Partnership, the child can do as much of the writing as she has stamina/attention for, and the adult does the rest, so I think it would work well in increasing stamina as you go along.

 

You might also want to take a look at the "Fun Writing" thread I started on the K-8 board a couple of days ago, because people had some great suggestions for us. I've bought this set based on that thread: http://www.rfwp.com/series/aesops-fables-books-about-reading-writing-thinking#book-aesops-fables-my-book-about-reading-writing-thinking-vol-iIt looks creative enough to hold her interest, and hopefully when we're done with the set she'll be ready for MCT along with Partnership Writing.

 

I looked briefly at Bravewriter, but didn't really know where to start. I will look again. I will check that thread, too.

 

My son (ASD, gifted, ADHD) couldn't do much writing until fairly recently. He's in 6th grade, and he started with a tutor last year. He does like doing the pieces and parts, but the problem comes with going way to broad or having nothing to say as well as coming up with topic sentences, concluding sentences, etc. At least the topic/concluding sentences are related to the ASD. We opted to work on sentence combining (like Easy Grammar does and Easy Writing), Wordsmith Apprentice, outlining, etc. We bought The Reader's Handbook and have discussed how text is structured so that it makes some sense to him what he ought to put in. He is using Inspiration Software for graphic organizers/mindmapping. I think we are going to use the new Kilgallon Middle School nonfiction book. (I think it's like their paragraph book.) 

 

He likes editing work and coming up with better ways to say something. The bigger problem is organizing those thoughts and getting them out of his head. Narration early on would have helped with that a lot, I think.

 

I would have started dictation and narration early if I'd really known better how to do it. 

 

We love MCT. We do have to do some additional work on mechanics (he really needs to see mechanics in a variety of contexts), but MCT has made him enjoy grammar and see it as something really cool.

 

We are now reasonably proficient with typing, so we do all spelling or dictation on the computer. That's a tremendous help. I am not sure he would have been proficient at typing prior to vision therapy, but now he's flying.

 

DD has the same problems with original writing. She makes up stories sometimes on her own, but with the writing curr. it would give her a topic and she just couldn't come up with the topic sentence and didn't seem to get concluding sentences at all.

 

I've been strongly considering MCT as it seems like it might be a great fit for her. The price is making me hesitate. We can get FLL or LS through our charter, but not MCT, so it's an even bigger price difference than if we were buying one or the other.

[Seeking Squirrels]

Ok, what I'm first looking for in your list is what's going WELL.  That to me would be really instructive.  So AAS is going well.  She's on grade level.  Is she reading and AAS is just for her spelling, or are you using AAS to do both?  How is her reading going?  (I'm thinking ok we can exclude SLD reading maybe?)  

 

She is reading around upper 4th gr level according to online assessments. She reads 3rd gr level for her reading time. She did a little bit of HOP in PreK/K but she was way ahead of where we were in the books, so we switched to OPGTR for 1st. That got her up to upper 3rd/early 4th level. A few months back she let me know she was really upset we'd dropped HOP and she REALLY resisted reading. So I said okay and we picked up HOP where we left off at 2nd gr. She loved it and started liking to read. She's now doing Master Reader and enjoying it, even though she's technically reading above the level she's learning. I think AAS has helped, though, to fill some gaps she had from HOP.

 

So then she's bored with FLL.  That too is a good sign!  These things in your list where it's like too slow, bored, that's good!  That means she's bright, and it means maybe she doesn't have a language disability.  That's GOOD!  My dd was like that, whizzing through certain things, so I know how that feels.  And when we say no language disability, that's good.  

 

Yes, she gets very bored with too much repetition. Her language skills have always been pretty advanced. She was speaking in full sentences and telling stories by her 2nd birthday and using vocabulary at 3 that sounded more like an 8 year old. She seems to have regressed, actually, and often speaks like a toddler. She even sometimes asks what a word means that she was using properly at 3 or 4. We not-so-jokingly say that when she was 2 she talked like she was 7 and now at 7 she talks like she's 2. :/ Her OT stops her any time she switches to baby talk and reminds her "seven", but she's not as receptive when I remind her. 

 

So then we look at what's NOT working, and your common, common thread here is writing.  I'll tell you, my ds is like that, where it's like you don't get it, I would have to put him back 2 years for him to be able to do the handwriting, takes forever, just horrible, can't put my finger on why but it's AWFUL, and he gets an SLD writing (dysgraphia) label.  

 

I've wondered about dysgraphia before, but I don't fully understand it so I don't know. She has a lot of reversals. She can write completely mirror image. Once she was making a large "placemat" for her and her sister. She wrote her name on the right side, all letters correct. Then she wrote her sister's name on the left side, completely reversed. The word went from right to left, and every letter was mirror image. She did a few other things completely backward like that, like birthday cards. She doesn't notice anything wrong when she does this.

 

I think when you have that combo of something glitching up the writing but super bright and no language disability, you're going to have to separate them out.  You're going to have to make a plan that acknowledges how BRIGHT she is and lets her go forward but DISCONNECTS the writing.  So that would mean lots of scribing, using dictation technology, and making the projects more advanced.  

 

Given what you're describing, I'd also put grade adjustment on the table.  And maybe you don't have to.  Maybe you adjust for the dysgraphia and everything suddenly comes together.  But I'm just saying grade adjustment is NOT the end of the world.  That possible HFA thing tells you there could be more going on there.  What's the rush?  There is none. 

 

Also, I want to say this somehow, but I think you're caught in a trap.  Right now your list looks like you went to K-8, read the posts, saw what the approach was, and did it all with your kid.  And when you do that, yes you can have problems with it not fitting the kid.  I think the other thing, the even harder thing though to deal with, is the INSECURITY it breeds in you.  Read back through your post and see it.  It's this idea that she wouldn't be behind if you had been more faithful.  She wouldn't be behind if you had chosen better.  She wouldn't be behind if...  

 

And I'm saying she'd be behind ANYWAY.  

 

Yes, this is hard for me. People have said since DD was quite small "wow she is so smart" and even bring it up to other people when we meet or something "over there is her daughter, P, OMG, she is SOO smart.". I know everyone says how it's not healthy to say this to kids, but it's not usually mentioned that it can make it difficult on the parent, too. I feel this pressure to keep her ahead, because everybody expects it.

 

You've got to GET OFF the curriculum rat race.  It's this guinea pig wheel people get on, a hamster thing, like I'm running, I'm running, I'm doing, I'm doing.  Well ARE you accomplishing anything?  Or did you really just list 20 different curricula where NONE of them helped her take a step forward?  

 

So I think you have to re-examine this, and tell yourself that you ARE a good homeschooler, that you have been as consistent as SHE was ready for, that her challenges are intrinsic to HER and not your fault.  I think you should buy/attempt nothing she's not actually ready for.  I think you should free yourself from the grade level paradigm, because it's not serving her well.  Think about her obvious IQ.  The testing will tell you, but I'm just saying you're saying the things that show us this girl is bright.  So when you get that discrepancy between what her brain wants to do and what her body is READY to do, that gets really ugly in a grade level system.  So you have to get OFF that crazy track.  

 

She is who she is.  She needs to work where her brain is and where her body is.  She needs to have expectations (grade level, academic) that fit her REALITY.  My *personal* opinion is that bright SN dc should be placed such that they're ROCK STARS.  Why, why, why should she be a defective, downtrodden, failing 3rd grader if she could be a rock star 1st grader?  Or 2nd grader. 

 

And the reason I think that, is because I think if you're patient, I think if you work with them exactly where they are, when they're this bright, it IS going to work together.  But if you DISCOURAGE them by doing things they aren't ready for and doing things they could do but in ways they aren't ready for, it's not quite the same.  My ds has an agemate friend in the ps with SLDs, and that boy goes home every day saying I'm a failure.  My ds has more SLDs, and he doesn't even know his disabilities.  All he knows is we do lots of things that WORK.  And we'll keep going, and eventually it will pan out in the wash.

 

Do not let the grade level thing and the curriculum rat race on K-8 become your definition of WHETHER YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB.  You can do a GOOD JOB and do things really, really, really differently from that, ok?  Like REALLY differently.  You don't need ANY of that stuff you listed to help her progress, NONE.  It's all distracting.  You need a few things that she's actually ready to do, done in ways that engage her, and done with technology and accommodations that respect her disabilities.  That's ALL you need.  Honest.

 

So what would it look like then? I think I get what you're saying, but I just don't know what that would actually entail.  I want to accommodate what she isn't ready for, but I don't want to let that hold back what she could be learning. I think she could handle grade level content, she just can't handle as much output as grade level expects. I do feel like I need a curriculum of some sort, because I don't trust my follow-through without. And her charter expects it.

 

[PeterPan]

Teach Me Language: A Language Manual for children with autism, Asperger's syndrome and related developmental disorders.

 

My ds is out of sorts today, so I spent several hours going through this.  I had gotten it on Lecka's recommend a while back but sort of shelved it when it came, not really thinking we were ready for it.  Now that we're further along, it's finally making sense to me.  Chapter 3, mysteriously called general knowledge, isn't really about general knowledge at all but about beginning writing, outlining, etc.  It's all the stuff Kbutton was talking about, and it has an entire chapter of VERY DETAILED steps to get the thought processes to click.  And a lot of it is stuff that you look at and go oh, they do that in xyz curriculum, or we call that such and such.  But to have it laid out so carefully, with the logic, with the *holes* identified, that really made sense to me.  My ds is not one that you can just walk up to and say "give me a narration."  This is what bridges the gap.  I think even if I picked up the scripted WWE levels (which I thought about) or IEW or something, it still wouldn't be as detailed as this is.  There might be something else out there that's *more* detailed, but this was pretty good, seems to me.  

 

Ok, your charter school question.  So are you in a state that *requires* that?  That's more challenging to work with.  I think you need evals to know accurately what you're dealing with.  You might need a different charter or to go farther off the grid.  I would think the evals would help with that, because right now you don't have pinned down exactly what is going on to know what you need, kwim?  And, call me crazy, but if you're required by law to be in a charter and have SN, then seems to me I'd be wanting an IEP so you have the legal protections to say you have goals and are complying with the law.  Or get connected with others with those diagnoses in your area and see how they're handling it.  But I go back to the evals and having the correct diagnosis.  That way we're moving on from "why won't this curriculum work" to "the diagnoses are... and these are the correct things to do about them."  And I don't know what labels  you're going to get.  I know you've got some serious things on the table.  

 

You could also move to a state that doesn't require you to be in a charter.  I'm pretty rogue, so that would be dealbreaker to me.  If it's going to be 11 more years of fighting like this, I'd try to move.  Or if it's the dh saying go charter due to insecurities, then I'd try to inform on that and work out a compromise.

[PeterPan]

R&S is dry as toast and the writing is, well I think it's nasty.  I know other people like it.  I suggest you find out what her diagnoses are.  Since she did so well in FLL, I was going to suggest you start latin.  If you do latin, just skip R&S.  I know some people say you need both.  I'm just saying I would skip it and just do latin.  Contextualized learning is always better.  Get the cheap $2.50 diagramming book from CLE, learn to diagram, and diagram in english and latin.   :)

 

Wow, her reading is phenomenal!  I miss those days, lol.  Dd was like that.  Ds, totally different story.  Anyways, congrats on your success!  

 

Ok, regression is not good.  That's something you want to bring up in the evals.  That's a serious issue, and you want thorough testing to sort out what's going on there.  I'll just ask, did the regression start when she got the sibling?  Because obviously there can be developmental regression, but there's also behavioral stuff.  Kids' minds are complex!

 

Re the reversals, have you had her eyes checked by a developmental optometrist?  When I started building lego and knex with my ds, he had a LOT of mirror images like that.  Now we see it less.  I think sometimes the brain is trying to make all those connections.  We did some exercises in Focus Moves/School Moves with L/R, and I can't remember if I thought they helped.  And of course we do a LOT of building from designs, meaning he's constantly holding it up to the page and saying oops and fixing.  That is getting better.  Now he can even have the page a different direction and build.  So I think on that I'd start by getting her eyes screened by a developmental optometrist, just to make sure that isn't part of the explanation.  The rest might come up in the OT eval or get addressed that way, since direction, bilateral functions, etc. are under OT.

 

That's noteworthy that she's writing legibly, on the lines.  Does it hurt when she writes?  To what do you chalk up her pushback against things with writing?  With my dd part of it was working memory deficits and EF.  If the handwriting isn't automatic and you have to do that and motor plan and remember what you're writing and deal with environmental distractions, that can be a lot.  She improved after we did heathermomster's metronome protocol, adding in digit spans, talking aloud, and lots of distractions.

 

Btw, sometimes self-regulation can be worked on by OTs.  She's young, and if she's having issues with that you might want to consider a behaviorist or someone who has more training.  I guess just see how it goes.  I'm really in the more team, more better kind of approach these days.  I feel like I learn from each person.

 

So you're saying you feel guilty, like you need to do certain things because she's clearly bright?  You realize she might only have a bright IQ and not even gifted?  I'm not meaning to disparage brightness, lol, but my dd's IQ is only bright, not gifted, and she was like your dd on many things (flying through grammar, language strengths, some astonishing areas, people coming up to me, etc.).  Her IQ might not be as high as you fear/think.  Or it might be, hehe.  Besides, it doesn't matter.  You have to teach them where they are, and you facilitate.  I'm just telling you, as someone who is WAY further down the road, that it's OK to chill out a bit.  You do not need a curriculum onslaught to do a good job.  The brighter the dc, the LESS of that you need in fact.

 

Oh duh, I'm rereading, and you said she's getting OT.  How is that going?  You mentioned that she doesn't comply with you for certain things but does the OT.  That's a challenge, sigh.  It might be the evals will explain that.  I know it has been a frustrating, frustrating issue for me, because my ds pretty much got in his head that he obeys dh and NO ONE else.  He'll comply with others if it pleases him, but there hasn't been this really generalized thing of I obey adults and people in charge of me because it's the right thing to do.  It was more like I obey Daddy because he's the BIGGEST.   :glare: 

 

 Ok, you asked what it looks like.  I find, in talking to and meeting people on the boards, that EVERYONE finds their own way.  Like my mix and your mix and someone else's mix, they're all so custom.  Partly it's personality, like you're saying, like what makes us comfortable, what kind of structure we need, how we roll.  Part of it is our kids' diagnoses.  You can't get that part factored in till you get these evals you're doing.  I can tell you I'm WAY more *devil may care* with my 2nd dc than I was with my first.  They have a 10 year gap and I learned a lot, kwim?  But it's also just confidence.  I can tell you I had a psych eval for my dd around 12 that helped me, because he was the first person to say she was going to be ok and to go as far out of the box as possible as often as possible.  Now the next psych, the one I used with my ds, he was, well I have no polite french for him.   ;)  He told me parents of dyslexics shouldn't teach their kids, that I was the problem, blah blah.   :cursing:  And to think this jerk came highly recommended!  And maybe for some people that answer was right, but FOR ME, for my situation, for my skill set, that was not the right answer.  And the jerk totally rattled me for a while.

 

I think you have to look deep within your soul and say "What would I do if I wasn't afraid?"  I don't think decisions based on fear are good ones.  I think there are a variety of paths that can work for most things.  I think you have to comply with the law.  Get the information, and then tell yourself I CAN DO THIS.  Because you can.   :)

 

And if you want pixie dust sprinkled all over you with people telling you that you can go farther and farther out of the box and be ok, a lot of ladies on the board can give it to you.  You can have as much of that dust as you WANT and go as far out as you WANT.  I had a neuropsych tell me to do it.  For me, that was the ok, this is what a professional says to do.  And I've had friends over the years saying the same thing and leading the way with their examples.  You are in such a CLOUD of people who diverge and take this road, and it WORKS OUT FINE.  

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Seeking Squirrels]

Teach Me Language: A Language Manual for children with autism, Asperger's syndrome and related developmental disorders.

 

My ds is out of sorts today, so I spent several hours going through this.  I had gotten it on Lecka's recommend a while back but sort of shelved it when it came, not really thinking we were ready for it.  Now that we're further along, it's finally making sense to me.  Chapter 3, mysteriously called general knowledge, isn't really about general knowledge at all but about beginning writing, outlining, etc.  It's all the stuff Kbutton was talking about, and it has an entire chapter of VERY DETAILED steps to get the thought processes to click.  And a lot of it is stuff that you look at and go oh, they do that in xyz curriculum, or we call that such and such.  But to have it laid out so carefully, with the logic, with the *holes* identified, that really made sense to me.  My ds is not one that you can just walk up to and say "give me a narration."  This is what bridges the gap.  I think even if I picked up the scripted WWE levels (which I thought about) or IEW or something, it still wouldn't be as detailed as this is.  There might be something else out there that's *more* detailed, but this was pretty good, seems to me.  

 

I'll give that a look later when I have a few more minutes.

 

Ok, your charter school question.  So are you in a state that *requires* that?  That's more challenging to work with.  I think you need evals to know accurately what you're dealing with.  You might need a different charter or to go farther off the grid.  I would think the evals would help with that, because right now you don't have pinned down exactly what is going on to know what you need, kwim?  And, call me crazy, but if you're required by law to be in a charter and have SN, then seems to me I'd be wanting an IEP so you have the legal protections to say you have goals and are complying with the law.  Or get connected with others with those diagnoses in your area and see how they're handling it.  But I go back to the evals and having the correct diagnosis.  That way we're moving on from "why won't this curriculum work" to "the diagnoses are... and these are the correct things to do about them."  And I don't know what labels  you're going to get.  I know you've got some serious things on the table.  

 

No, actually our state is super easy. You send a notarized letter of intent once. But last year we needed *something* to give DD and I a break from each other. (TBH, mostly me a break from her) The charter includes a one-day "options" program. Now we don't need the break from each other so much, but she LOVES it. She would be very upset if I pulled her from the program. But by going to options day and letting them buy some of our curriculum, we also have to be under regulation. We have to show progress in math and LA. They don't require a lot, but they do insist on each area being covered. So if I say don't have a grammar listed, they'll require we add it. I have to update her ES on where we are in each curriculum each month. We're also supposed to provide samples, but I generally "forget" and so far that hasn't been pushed, so they've only gotten like 2 pages from us since we started fall 2014. She also has to do benchmark testing in fall and spring, and reading dibels 3 times a year. SAGE testing starts next year in 3rd. I HATE being under them. HATE IT. I do NOT like reporting to them. But I just can't take it away from DD. And they do a lot I can't do like PE, drama, theater, music... They do science and some social studies stuff, too, but I consider it extra and we still do those at home. We also sign up for field trips with them which we might not do on our own.

 

You could also move to a state that doesn't require you to be in a charter.  I'm pretty rogue, so that would be dealbreaker to me.  If it's going to be 11 more years of fighting like this, I'd try to move.  Or if it's the dh saying go charter due to insecurities, then I'd try to inform on that and work out a compromise.

A big part of me would love to leave the charter. They don't actually provide much for us in the way of curriculum so we don't need them for that. And it adds some stress to getting through our other work because she is there all day one day a week, and for two hours right after lunch another day. If it's a field trip week, that ends up leaving me with 2.5 days for our regular work. I just don't think I can make her leave it, though. She does love it and it gives her the social practice.

[PeterPan]

Ok, I'm curious.  How does she do when she's in those classes and in that social setting?  Does she imitate her peers and catch onto what she should be doing?  Does she have conversations and make friends?  If she's with one teacher the whole time, that gives you someone to fill out observation forms for the evals, which can be useful.  And that's really good that she enjoys it so much!  So (just thinking out loud), if you *didn't* do the charter, would you have other options for one day pullouts like that?  It certainly sounds like it's useful to her.  What would your options be?  I'm not saying what you should do, just saying that's a way to think through it.

 

I'll just digress a minute and say that's an interesting set-up.  I don't know if we have charters set up like that in our state.  We have cyber schools and charters you can attend full/part time.  I definitely think that's worthwhile interaction. I'm always on the lookout for good things for my ds.   :)

 

Ok, now here's the thing that's funny to me.  I said you could toss the huge curriculum list, and then it went right to worrying how you would show progress in LA.  We still DO language arts stuff, kwim?  We have to comply with the law, and actually the law is pretty specific in our state.  We have a long list of subjects we have to cover every year, have to notify at the beginning of the year with our list of materials we're using to cover those subjects, and have to have either testing or a portfolio review by a certified teacher stating that he is performing *at his ability level*.  So we HAVE to cover those things and they're actually noticing!

 

So like my ds, right now where he's at?  Speech therapy materials are hitting his grammar.  He didn't even understand the referents for pronouns.  So if the sentence had "it" he wouldn't know what it was referring to.  I've done this WordFun book with him where we explored grammar concepts.  In our state, that's something I can put on the line and say yes, I'm doing stuff for grammar.  Actually, I think the whole category is your broad LA (reading, writing, blah blah).  But I AM using things, kwim?  And instead of a writing curriculum, we're using writing prompts (that I think up, but who's quibbling!) and the kindle dictation.  And we'll probably start the outlining process in TML because I was impressed with it.  And we have a cute workbook that has a picture to complete using the clues in the scrambled sentence.  For him to unscramble the sentence (hard!), write it (hard!), and draw the rest of the picture and maybe color, that's hitting a lot of our goals!  He listens to Teaching Company lectures on the side and adult books about dog research and WWII.  He's just all over the place.  He was worried what his grade was, and I told him to tell people COLLEGE.  I'm way bad.   :lol: 

 

 My ds has some very precise needs because of his situation (multiple SLDs, apraxia, ASD, blah blah).  He's really wild to work with.  He's also crazy bright.  Technically he's gifted, which dd is not.  He really drives his own education, and I basically try to get out of the way.  I facilitate with a variety of things on his kindle as audiobooks.  Some will be very advanced, and some will be on-level.  He tends to memorize them and synthesize.  Like one time he told me he didn't need me to teach him anything because the Wright brothers learned nothing in school.   :lol:  Apparently it says that in the Sterling biography, go figure.  They were self-taught because they learned nothing in school.  He took that pretty literally.  Wtih him, I try to get out of the way.  I give him time to watch science and history shows.  We build together.  He listens to tons of audiobooks.  I have a visual schedule and we make choices and work together.  So he has Teacher Table (grunt work with me), Speech time (more speech work with me), math.  Between those three we hit all his basics like handwriting, blah blah.  I have to be really compact.  Then we have enrichments, like state study, history, art, knex kits, blah blah.  I just try to do what we can.  We do puzzles and have a map out.  

 

That's his mix, what works for him.  He's not one that you can pull in and just require to do a bunch of things he's not with you to do.  He has obsessions, so I try to roll with them. We'll go through Usborne history books, looking at all the x (weapons, clothing, whatever).  We'll just read the same book over and over, looking at different things each time.  I have to roll with his obsessions.  I can't really say be interested in this now because I said to.  The more quirky it is or curious, the more it might catch him.  Like right now he's pretty good with this state birds thing.  We've done some traditional art, but what he really likes is the can you find it art books, where there's a painting and you're looking for the 4 foxes and all that.  He LOVES those.  

 

My dd was so, so different.  She could engage with all kinds of things.  She didn't have restricted interests like ds.  Basically anything you wanted to do with her, she could do, as long as she had enough breaks for attention and as long as it was very hands-on or visual.  So we'd do projects, make costumes, craft/sculpt.  She was just so different.  

 

That's why I'm saying, I really wouldn't want you to think that oh need to do it like so and so.  You really can find your own mix.  I think if you like the charter that much and it's doing good things, just focus on getting the disabilities identified and on finding streamlined, engaging, appropriate, disability-conscious methodologies for each thing.  Streamlined is so important.  Witty, engaging, intriguing is important.  It's not so much about what you're doing but about whether that dc finds it so intriguing that they'd like to do MORE, kwim?  

 

Sometimes going out of the box isn't so much about freewheeling.  It's more about saying, you know, this curriculum is too flat, too dull.  My student would rather make more connections, see it in more context.  

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Seeking Squirrels]

R&S is dry as toast and the writing is, well I think it's nasty.  I know other people like it.  I suggest you find out what her diagnoses are.  Since she did so well in FLL, I was going to suggest you start latin.  If you do latin, just skip R&S.  I know some people say you need both.  I'm just saying I would skip it and just do latin.  Contextualized learning is always better.  Get the cheap $2.50 diagramming book from CLE, learn to diagram, and diagram in english and latin.   :)

 

I've thought of doing latin. Is that book highly religious?

 

Wow, her reading is phenomenal!  I miss those days, lol.  Dd was like that.  Ds, totally different story.  Anyways, congrats on your success!  

 

Ok, regression is not good.  That's something you want to bring up in the evals.  That's a serious issue, and you want thorough testing to sort out what's going on there.  I'll just ask, did the regression start when she got the sibling?  Because obviously there can be developmental regression, but there's also behavioral stuff.  Kids' minds are complex!

 

I can't pinpoint but it could be. She sometimes acts quite jealous of her sister, but not of anything we do to favor her, just the fact that her sister gets to be 3. She says she wants to be 3 again.

 

Re the reversals, have you had her eyes checked by a developmental optometrist?  When I started building lego and knex with my ds, he had a LOT of mirror images like that.  Now we see it less.  I think sometimes the brain is trying to make all those connections.  We did some exercises in Focus Moves/School Moves with L/R, and I can't remember if I thought they helped.  And of course we do a LOT of building from designs, meaning he's constantly holding it up to the page and saying oops and fixing.  That is getting better.  Now he can even have the page a different direction and build.  So I think on that I'd start by getting her eyes screened by a developmental optometrist, just to make sure that isn't part of the explanation.  The rest might come up in the OT eval or get addressed that way, since direction, bilateral functions, etc. are under OT.

 

We haven't yet but planned on getting her eyes checked just in general. Her OT hasn't said anything, but then we didn't get a chance to discuss what LD she saw flags for when she put us on the wait list for a full neuropsych eval. That was all just at our last visit.

 

That's noteworthy that she's writing legibly, on the lines.  Does it hurt when she writes?  To what do you chalk up her pushback against things with writing?  With my dd part of it was working memory deficits and EF.  If the handwriting isn't automatic and you have to do that and motor plan and remember what you're writing and deal with environmental distractions, that can be a lot.  She improved after we did heathermomster's metronome protocol, adding in digit spans, talking aloud, and lots of distractions.

 

She can write legibly and on lines if they are big enough. She uses the first grade rule right now. They are not even, though, even on that paper. If she has plain paper, sizing, spacing, and legibility vary greatly. She mixes a lot of upper and lower case, too. She does better during handwriting or copying since it's right in front of her. But if she doesn't have something to copy from, it's much more random.

 

She doesn't say it hurts but I haven't asked. It is almost painful to watch her, though. She seems to have to really think about each letter and it can take her a bit to get started on each letter. She erases a lot. Or she will go back over a letter to "fix" it leaving it very messy. It's just a painstaking process that takes her a long time.

 

Btw, sometimes self-regulation can be worked on by OTs.  She's young, and if she's having issues with that you might want to consider a behaviorist or someone who has more training.  I guess just see how it goes.  I'm really in the more team, more better kind of approach these days.  I feel like I learn from each person.

 

Yes we need a better behaviorist. She was seeing a psychologist before, but we just weren't getting anywhere.

 

So you're saying you feel guilty, like you need to do certain things because she's clearly bright?  You realize she might only have a bright IQ and not even gifted?  I'm not meaning to disparage brightness, lol, but my dd's IQ is only bright, not gifted, and she was like your dd on many things (flying through grammar, language strengths, some astonishing areas, people coming up to me, etc.).  Her IQ might not be as high as you fear/think.  Or it might be, hehe.  Besides, it doesn't matter.  You have to teach them where they are, and you facilitate.  I'm just telling you, as someone who is WAY further down the road, that it's OK to chill out a bit.  You do not need a curriculum onslaught to do a good job.  The brighter the dc, the LESS of that you need in fact.

 

I guess I feel like I'm failing *her* if I'm not giving her the right tools to have her reach her potential. And because I'm constantly told how smart she is, I feel like her potential must be higher than where I have her. I do think she is only bright, not gifted. I wondered for a while when she was 2/3, but researched some on the difference and I do think she settles on the bright side of the line. She also just picked up a lot of things really early, and I think that leaves an impression on people that gives them this image of "super smart" when really she's evened out so much since then. 

 

Oh duh, I'm rereading, and you said she's getting OT.  How is that going?  You mentioned that she doesn't comply with you for certain things but does the OT.  That's a challenge, sigh.  It might be the evals will explain that.  I know it has been a frustrating, frustrating issue for me, because my ds pretty much got in his head that he obeys dh and NO ONE else.  He'll comply with others if it pleases him, but there hasn't been this really generalized thing of I obey adults and people in charge of me because it's the right thing to do.  It was more like I obey Daddy because he's the BIGGEST.   :glare: 

 

OT is going okay, but I really don't know how much it's helping. She is a different kid there, so even her OT doesn't get the picture I do at home. We're on the waitlist for full eval, but it could be 4-8 months.

 

 Ok, you asked what it looks like.  I find, in talking to and meeting people on the boards, that EVERYONE finds their own way.  Like my mix and your mix and someone else's mix, they're all so custom.  Partly it's personality, like you're saying, like what makes us comfortable, what kind of structure we need, how we roll.  Part of it is our kids' diagnoses.  You can't get that part factored in till you get these evals you're doing.  I can tell you I'm WAY more *devil may care* with my 2nd dc than I was with my first.  They have a 10 year gap and I learned a lot, kwim?  But it's also just confidence.  I can tell you I had a psych eval for my dd around 12 that helped me, because he was the first person to say she was going to be ok and to go as far out of the box as possible as often as possible.  Now the next psych, the one I used with my ds, he was, well I have no polite french for him.   ;)  He told me parents of dyslexics shouldn't teach their kids, that I was the problem, blah blah.   :cursing:  And to think this jerk came highly recommended!  And maybe for some people that answer was right, but FOR ME, for my situation, for my skill set, that was not the right answer.  And the jerk totally rattled me for a while.

 

I think you have to look deep within your soul and say "What would I do if I wasn't afraid?"  I don't think decisions based on fear are good ones.  I think there are a variety of paths that can work for most things.  I think you have to comply with the law.  Get the information, and then tell yourself I CAN DO THIS.  Because you can.   :)

 

And if you want pixie dust sprinkled all over you with people telling you that you can go farther and farther out of the box and be ok, a lot of ladies on the board can give it to you.  You can have as much of that dust as you WANT and go as far out as you WANT.  I had a neuropsych tell me to do it.  For me, that was the ok, this is what a professional says to do.  And I've had friends over the years saying the same thing and leading the way with their examples.  You are in such a CLOUD of people who diverge and take this road, and it WORKS OUT FINE.  

 

I really don't know what I would do if I wasn't afraid. I am hoping the eval helps but it could be a while. We are also in the process of starting ADHD meds and who knows what that could end up looking like. Maybe a lot of it is focus and things will look different in a month.

[PeterPan]

Well hopefully the meds will help things!  Still keep the eval.  Like you know how sometimes people go "Oh, we got some improvement with meds... We're fine now!"  Don't do that.  Get the full evals.  

 

Yeah, I've been to a number of OTs with my kids.  These practitioners are just all different.  Some things take a while to unfold.  Sometimes you have to say the thing that flags it for them.  Our current OT had seen ds' bolting, transition issues, conversation oddities, etc., but she had not really seen him melt down.  Then one day she saw it.  :D  So yes, just keep mentioning things.  Ask for things you can do at home.  One day a week is NOT going to get the breakthroughs you need.  I'm in the "more the better" camp right now for OT stuff.  Like ask for 7-10 things you can do for sensory breaks during the day.  As for exercises for the retained reflexes.  As for some motor planning exercises.  As for some exercises for building strength (which helps even mild dyspraxia) and improving tone.  Ask for things you can do to improve the sensory and tips to handle meltdowns.  Ask if there is simple equipment you can install or that she could loan you.  Ours loaned us a scooter board, and I got a whole fun deck from Super Duper with activities to do on a scooter board.  You could install a swing.  She could give you Therapeutic Listening.  Just keep saying things and asking, sigh.  

 

BCBA are the letters you want for a behaviorist.  You'll need funding, which means you need the evals.  How far out are those?  Does this neuropsych have a good reputation for slowing down on eval'ing ASD?  Is he just going to use the Gilliam and stop?  Don't even get me started on that.  Anyways, ask how many hours this psych will spend and what tests they typically do for ASD.  This IS the big money question, and you need it done right.  

 

Wow, that's some serious struggling on that handwriting.  And has the OT tried to look at that as far as the motor planning?  

 

How much longer till your evals?  

[Seeking Squirrels]

Ok, I'm curious.  How does she do when she's in those classes and in that social setting?  Does she imitate her peers and catch onto what she should be doing?  Does she have conversations and make friends?  If she's with one teacher the whole time, that gives you someone to fill out observation forms for the evals, which can be useful.  And that's really good that she enjoys it so much!  So (just thinking out loud), if you *didn't* do the charter, would you have other options for one day pullouts like that?  It certainly sounds like it's useful to her.  What would your options be?  I'm not saying what you should do, just saying that's a way to think through it.

 

I've never had the opportunity to really observe her in class. She says she has friends and I know who they are. She is always excited to get to see them and hopes to be in the same "specials" class. However, we ran into those friends at a bounce house play place a few weeks ago. She was so excited they were there. Half the time I saw her she wasn't even with them. She was some. I saw them go down a few slides. Then I'd see the others and she wasn't with them. Then I'd find her and ask if she was ready to go and she said no because she was playing with her friends. But they were nowhere around. She's never actually been able to tell me anything about them. She doesn't come home saying "S did such n such" or anything like that. She's with one teacher through the morning, but after lunch they rotate through 4 classes. Then a different teacher for two hours on specials day. No, the only other option even close to this that's not under state regulations is a local co-op, but it's extremely religious and we are not.

 

I'll just digress a minute and say that's an interesting set-up.  I don't know if we have charters set up like that in our state.  We have cyber schools and charters you can attend full/part time.  I definitely think that's worthwhile interaction. I'm always on the lookout for good things for my ds.   :)

 

Ok, now here's the thing that's funny to me.  I said you could toss the huge curriculum list, and then it went right to worrying how you would show progress in LA.  We still DO language arts stuff, kwim?  We have to comply with the law, and actually the law is pretty specific in our state.  We have a long list of subjects we have to cover every year, have to notify at the beginning of the year with our list of materials we're using to cover those subjects, and have to have either testing or a portfolio review by a certified teacher stating that he is performing *at his ability level*.  So we HAVE to cover those things and they're actually noticing!

 

So like my ds, right now where he's at?  Speech therapy materials are hitting his grammar.  He didn't even understand the referents for pronouns.  So if the sentence had "it" he wouldn't know what it was referring to.  I've done this WordFun book with him where we explored grammar concepts.  In our state, that's something I can put on the line and say yes, I'm doing stuff for grammar.  Actually, I think the whole category is your broad LA (reading, writing, blah blah).  But I AM using things, kwim?  And instead of a writing curriculum, we're using writing prompts (that I think up, but who's quibbling!) and the kindle dictation.  And we'll probably start the outlining process in TML because I was impressed with it.  And we have a cute workbook that has a picture to complete using the clues in the scrambled sentence.  For him to unscramble the sentence (hard!), write it (hard!), and draw the rest of the picture and maybe color, that's hitting a lot of our goals!  He listens to Teaching Company lectures on the side and adult books about dog research and WWII.  He's just all over the place.  He was worried what his grade was, and I told him to tell people COLLEGE.  I'm way bad.   :lol: 

 

I wonder if her ES will work with us to just be able to report generalized progress instead of needing a "lesson 12 of 25" reporting. I understand what you mean and would love to be able to do it that way, but I guess it comes back to that fear! I'm afraid I wouldn't cover what we need to, or that we would let those things slide since there's no schedule of when to do what. And I do have the fear of "what will I tell her ES?" I'm still stressing over what I will tell her Thursday when we've made zero progress in the EM grammar book because I switched to letting her do LS. I will tell her that's what we've done, but I'm actually nervous about telling her it's level B we're doing, not C. :/

 

 My ds has some very precise needs because of his situation (multiple SLDs, apraxia, ASD, blah blah).  He's really wild to work with.  He's also crazy bright.  Technically he's gifted, which dd is not.  He really drives his own education, and I basically try to get out of the way.  I facilitate with a variety of things on his kindle as audiobooks.  Some will be very advanced, and some will be on-level.  He tends to memorize them and synthesize.  Like one time he told me he didn't need me to teach him anything because the Wright brothers learned nothing in school.   :lol:  Apparently it says that in the Sterling biography, go figure.  They were self-taught because they learned nothing in school.  He took that pretty literally.  Wtih him, I try to get out of the way.  I give him time to watch science and history shows.  We build together.  He listens to tons of audiobooks.  I have a visual schedule and we make choices and work together.  So he has Teacher Table (grunt work with me), Speech time (more speech work with me), math.  Between those three we hit all his basics like handwriting, blah blah.  I have to be really compact.  Then we have enrichments, like state study, history, art, knex kits, blah blah.  I just try to do what we can.  We do puzzles and have a map out.  

 

That's his mix, what works for him.  He's not one that you can pull in and just require to do a bunch of things he's not with you to do.  He has obsessions, so I try to roll with them. We'll go through Usborne history books, looking at all the x (weapons, clothing, whatever).  We'll just read the same book over and over, looking at different things each time.  I have to roll with his obsessions.  I can't really say be interested in this now because I said to.  The more quirky it is or curious, the more it might catch him.  Like right now he's pretty good with this state birds thing.  We've done some traditional art, but what he really likes is the can you find it art books, where there's a painting and you're looking for the 4 foxes and all that.  He LOVES those.  

 

She's definitely not this engaged in specific interests! I think it's awesome you are able to roll with his interests that way and meet him with what he enjoys. DD does grab on to things, but she grabs on to a lot of them, so no one really takes the lead, if that makes sense. Except air. She is now obsessed with air. She won't let us carry on our regular science because we had a small unit on air and that's all she wants to learn about now. I'm trying to accommodate this but I'm running out of things to do with it!

 

My dd was so, so different.  She could engage with all kinds of things.  She didn't have restricted interests like ds.  Basically anything you wanted to do with her, she could do, as long as she had enough breaks for attention and as long as it was very hands-on or visual.  So we'd do projects, make costumes, craft/sculpt.  She was just so different.  

 

That's why I'm saying, I really wouldn't want you to think that oh need to do it like so and so.  You really can find your own mix.  I think if you like the charter that much and it's doing good things, just focus on getting the disabilities identified and on finding streamlined, engaging, appropriate, disability-conscious methodologies for each thing.  Streamlined is so important.  Witty, engaging, intriguing is important.  It's not so much about what you're doing but about whether that dc finds it so intriguing that they'd like to do MORE, kwim?  

 

Sometimes going out of the box isn't so much about freewheeling.  It's more about saying, you know, this curriculum is too flat, too dull.  My student would rather make more connections, see it in more context.  

 

I will talk with her ES this week to find out what we can do from that end. That would relieve one source of fear.

 

[PeterPan]

Oh that is HILARIOUS.  Air? City in the sky in Star Trek.  Fairies, flight, 7 Swans, fairy tales, how do birds fly, science experiments.  She could do the ACS Middle School Chemistry with you.  ACS (american chemical society) has great science books btw.  Air plants.  I just saw this cute pot on Steampunk's FB feed.  It was for air plants.  How do they work?  Can we grow them?  Can we make a powerpoint or a video about them?  Could we make a flip book about them?  

 

All you really do is take your goals for the year (punctuation, etc. etc.) and then you make sure you hit them in these projects.  It's *not* as rocket sciency as you think.

 

Ok, tough topic.  You just said she's in there, loving the novelty and stimulation, but that she's not actually gaining socially because she's not slowing down, having interactions, and that it's not getting NOTICED.  So then she's not necessarily getting the benefits of school, kwim?  Like she could be there and be getting something she wants, but maybe, because of her disabilities, she doesn't realize the OTHER things she's NOT getting.  And maybe she could get that novelty and stimulation other ways, kwim?  

 

I just dno't think that relationship with that ES is acceptable, at least not to me.  Like I'd be so OUT of there, mercy, lol.  You're way more tolerant than I am.   :)  But I think you can be straight.  She's getting evals, we suspect disabilities, we need to switch to time logged or a list for the month of our goals and checks for working on them.  Something like that.  An IEP will have goals and data logging.  They're using a set-up for non SN dc, but what is their path for kids with SN?  

 

I'm not sure how ineffective warm-body socializing is really getting her much.  Like she's liking the novelty, but it's almost even WORSE.  Like to send her and NOT have them providing the social skills instruction and someone NOT saying your behavior is not pro-social and not prompting appropriate behaviors, that is almost like reinforcing the status quo.  So now she thinks that's OK to go in and not interact, kwim?  I have my ds in numerous classes at the Y.  Like he's there 6 times a week.  Some terms he has been there upwards of 10 times a week!  And what I do is I go and I stand there and prompt him, just like a behaviorist would.  You prompt, and as he acquires the skill you fade the prompt.  That person talked to you.  Did you notice?  You can say hi when your friend says hi.  (stand and watch failing conversation)  You can ask a question.  Ask what his name.  He told you about his dog.  Tell him about your dog....  I take him early and we stay late, and that's what we're ALWAYS working on.  Over and over.  Oh, your friend is there, we can say hi to your friend.  Would you like to show your friend your app?  Blah blah.  So he might get less time, but it's always very targeted, always with me working on it, kwim?  

 

To me, that's not acceptable, when I KNOW my ds has a social disability, to say I'm going to take him somewhere and he's NOT getting help with his BIGGEST PROBLEM in the whole wide world.  Because social skills are THE determiner of employability.  Aside from his speech (severe apraxia), there is NOTHING more important we can do than build his social skills.  And maybe that's not on your radar because you don't have the diagnosis yet.  I'm just saying wow, maybe that will move up.  Maybe that will be how you reprioritize things for a while.  Maybe it's like ok, that charter is a mainstreaming situation, and maybe we'd like some more skills for that.  Maybe we'd take a year and work on social skills and then go BACK to that situation, kwim?  

 

I don't know, just thinking out loud.  And there is sort of this stage where you're like oh she's just quiet, oh she's just... and there's a stage where kids still don't care, notice, etc.  But pretty soon, if that's what is going on, her peers WILL pull ahead.  Then she's going to be left without those skills.  I WANT to put my ds in a setting like that some because I WANT him to have those relationships.  But I know he doesn't yet have the SKILLS to have those relationships.  Merely putting him there won't get them for him.  He's going to need explicit instruction.  That TML has a lot of the steps.  The Michelle Garcia Winner social thinking materials have a lot.  So what I'm doing, because I know our situation and have those diagnoses, is I'm putting all our eggs in that basket.  We're like full court push, kwim?  A decision about what gets us that mix for now isn't a decision for FOREVER.  It's just a decision for what allows me that focus right now, so that we can do those things later, more fully.

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[kbutton]

Teach Me Language: A Language Manual for children with autism, Asperger's syndrome and related developmental disorders.

 

My ds is out of sorts today, so I spent several hours going through this.  I had gotten it on Lecka's recommend a while back but sort of shelved it when it came, not really thinking we were ready for it.  Now that we're further along, it's finally making sense to me.  Chapter 3, mysteriously called general knowledge, isn't really about general knowledge at all but about beginning writing, outlining, etc.  It's all the stuff Kbutton was talking about, and it has an entire chapter of VERY DETAILED steps to get the thought processes to click.  And a lot of it is stuff that you look at and go oh, they do that in xyz curriculum, or we call that such and such.  But to have it laid out so carefully, with the logic, with the *holes* identified, that really made sense to me.  My ds is not one that you can just walk up to and say "give me a narration."  This is what bridges the gap.  I think even if I picked up the scripted WWE levels (which I thought about) or IEW or something, it still wouldn't be as detailed as this is.  There might be something else out there that's *more* detailed, but this was pretty good, seems to me.  

 

:drool5:  You did not tell me this, did you?!? I know the book "came up," but I am not sure anyone ever told me this book would go into that. Was I sleeping? Did I bow out of a thread too early? I was afraid we were too late to get something from this book. Should I be putting this in my Amazon cart like yesterday?

[Seeking Squirrels]

We don't even get OT once a week. Right now we're going every other, but we might be cutting back to once a month. We just can't do 4 co-pays a month. :/ There's an inside door swing that we're looking to get when our tax refund comes in. She's been giving us lots of good tips, I just get overwhelmed with all of them easily and forget to implement them when it matters. Just a learning curve I guess.

 

I have no idea what this neuropsych uses to test or anything about them at all. I wouldn't even know what to ask. Or how to get ahold of them *to* ask, come to think of it. I just know we'll get a call when our name comes up. They said 4-8 months. That was about 3 weeks ago.

 

I don't know if she's looked at motor planning. I don't know if I'd recognize it if she had. I really feel clueless sometimes with this stuff.

 

Thank you for the ideas on air. I need to learn how to think that way. I only look up books at the library and search for air "lab" kits.

 

It does concern me how she interacts (or fails to) with other kids. I'm thinking this week I will ask to talk to the teacher she has for half the day and see what she sees during school or to pay attention for a couple weeks if she hasn't noticed anything. It's a good point, that it's not worth having her in it for the social interaction if she's not *actually* interacting. I really wish I could be a bug on her backpack for a day to see just how she does. In the pics from their read-a-thon she's sitting in a group with 3-4 other kids. She ran around with them a bit at the Halloween party. I asked her about S and she said they like to play animals during recess and they talk when the teachers give them a few minutes between classes. But then I see her doing things like saying she's playing with them when she's clearly not. And I see her not respond when she's spoken to. Or I see her respond awkwardly. Or she doesn't seem to join in to a conversation. It's like there's something there, it's just not glaringly obvious. So I don't know if it's not actually there and she's just a bit socially immature, or if it's just that she's only just now getting to the age where it's becoming more noticeable as friends become more than just sharing-toys playmates and there's more conversation and interaction.

 

She also does dance and tumbling classes each week. She loves them, but I don't know if she has friends in the classes or not. She's never mentioned anyone. I guess I'm not sure what's normal for a 7.5 yo?

[PeterPan]

:drool5:  You did not tell me this, did you?!? I know the book "came up," but I am not sure anyone ever told me this book would go into that. Was I sleeping? Did I bow out of a thread too early? I was afraid we were too late to get something from this book. Should I be putting this in my Amazon cart like yesterday?

I think it's the book you wish you had when your older was 7 or 8.  I'm not sure if it helps you now.  The behaviorist and her staff are taking care of all this, yes?  And I don't think a non-ASD person needs it.  You would NOT bother with this level of detail and steps for a person with no developmental disabilities.  But I looked at it and went WOW, this will fill the gap for ds to be able to do narrations and some things he has been struggling with that I'd like to do with him and can't.  

 

So I have no clue.  Can you get it through a university library?  It's $55 on amazon right now.  I don't recall what I paid, sorry.  I can't fathom I paid $55, mercy.  Yup, just checked.  I got it used and paid less.  I think that's why I did it, because it was less.  But at $55, that's really in the wow I'd need to be certain I needed it, kwim?  If what you're doing is working, I think you're covered.  I think your people are doing similar things and it's getting you there.  I just don't know that you'd get $55 of benefit where you are now.  But me, having paid a bit less, I'm definitely getting my money's worth, mercy.

[PeterPan]

Who does she match with when she goes to play?  Like if you put her in with kids who are a few years younger, does the play go better?

 

Do you have any play groups you could connect with?  Park playdates?  Maybe museums, parks, or other things in your area sponsor homeschool activities?  Honestly, I even keep my ds in some classes for preschoolers right now.  He fits in GREAT in our preschool swim class.  Seriously.  The kids are great socially, able to initiate conversations, ever patient, not jaded or cynical at all.  They'll come up to him and make conversations and keep trying.  They actually LIKE him.  He doesn't get that same reaction with older kids.   ;)

 

So that would be another way to look.  You could see if there are art classes, library time, whatever aimed at preschoolers.  She wouldn't fit in forever, but she might for a while.  And you could just say she has some SN, she fits in well with younger kids, could we come to this and see if it could work, and they'll probably say yeah.  I find daytime things like that just enjoy having people come and don't mind if you're a bit older than target.  And then you're THERE, able to see what's going on and give some prompts and nudges.  

 

And, you know, maybe the meds help with some of that.  They help with self-regulation and EF, and noticing things around you is part of EF.  They might help, and it would be awesome if they did!  You know another thing that can help, and something I haven't been so hot at implementing myself, is mindfulness.  Mindfulness costs NOTHING and actually can bump EF (which includes noticing things!) by 30%.  So 10-15 minutes a day, 30% bump in EF.  That's pretty good!  There's a book Sitting Like a Frog that your library might have.  It includes a cd.  You need to catch her at a non-rowdy time to see if she can down tempo and do it.  My ds got so distracted by the frog thing.  He's like no, frogs sit like THIS, and then he's JUMPING like a frog.  LOL  Can't win.  

 

You're going to learn what you need.  You're doing great.  Sometimes with psychs you leave a message and they call back.  You can't talk forever, but they'll usually talk for maybe 5 or 10 minutes and let you ask a few questions.  You'd just run through the basics (we suspect ADHD, maybe ASD, some SLDs), and then ask cost, how many hours of testing, and what tests they might run.  And don't ask them to explain the tests.  Just write everything down real fast (all the acronyms!) and then come look them up.  And then you just politely say which of those are your tests for ASD and how does that work? and they can just tell you how they're approaching that question, kwim?  

 

The really good thing about that phone call is you can see if you feel comfortable with the person.  The psych that was such a jerk with us was abrupt on the phone too.  I should have known and I just got blinded by his reputation.  Whatever, my dumbness.  

 

Are you using some form of visual schedules or other schedule tool?  I know the visual schedule makes *me* much more comfortable.  *I* am better with the structure, lol.  My ds does well with it too, because it improves our communication and ability to make choices and know the plan and be on board with the plan.  

 

How is that working out with the 3 yo?  We had such a trying time when ds was little, and my dc have a much bigger gap.  I imagine that's very hard?  Does she find it distracting?  

 

I'm sorry you're losing your OT.  Is your coverage going to change when you get a diagnosis?  I've heard some people take the dc *off* their insurance and put them on the state children's medicaid to get better/different coverage.  I don't know.  I can just see why you're frustrated.  Therapy can seem like an endless pit.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Seeking Squirrels]

Her tumbling gym let her stay in the preschool 3-5 class after she turned 6 and she got along in it great. They asked her to move up when she turned 7, though. We tried a homeschool class that ranged from 5-12 and she did not do well at. all. Now her class is a wide range for the first 10 minutes then they split up by ability so she's with mostly 5-7ish the rest of the time. She does much better than the homeschooling class. Her highland dance instructor also let her stay with primaries for a while, but now she has to be in age group because DD wants to participate in competition season, so she has to learn the dances for her age category. We just skipped competitions last season to let her stay back.

 

I don't know of any play dates or meetups that we could join. This is honestly quite hard for us where we live. We are not of the *very* predominant religion and it just doesn't go over well for social groups. :-(   I might have to try for some library story times or something, we haven't done those since she was quite small.

 

Ugh, I checked out MindUp from the library. It's due back and I haven't even opened it. I will have to do some internet searching to familiarize myself as I don't even know what mindfulness really is.

 

I completely prepped the visual schedules from TPT that you linked me to before and we used them....for about three days. We are just bad with keeping up with them. I want to like them, but we end up just looking at it once in the morning and then ignoring it the rest of the day and just doing our thing. Lately I've been doing the checklist in a spiral notebook method and that's been going well.  We also implemented a screen-time token system that is helping to motivate her through lessons.

 

It's all very hard on the 3yo. She is sensory sensitive, so DD7's meltdowns and rages are hard on her. She ends up hiding in a corner with her hands over her ears. She's also starting to get emotionally upset when 7yo rages *at* her. She used to just be "omg enough", more like annoyed. But now she comes to me crying that sister hurt her feelings because she yelled at her. It's also hard to get in the one-on-one time with her since 7yo can't be independent. We've just been letting DD7 join us for AAR and that's going smoother. I've also been trying to have an option for 3yo ready for if she's not happily playing on her own and wants to come crash our school party. Then I sit where I can get to both of them. The timer has been helping a lot, too. I've been choosing a set amount of time and when it goes off, we're done with that. It's helping to keep some stuff from just dragging out and eating our day. I'm still trying to figure out how to prioritize and what we need to do vs what we should let go right now. We usually can't get to everything I have planned and I'd rather just let unnecessary go than always feel like we didn't finish.

 

I have no idea if our insurance will cover more with a different dx.

[Seeking Squirrels]

I've been thinking about what I would do if I weren't afraid at all.

Read-alouds

"ziggy" (AAR) 7yo loves this as much as 3yo

Lapbooks. DD loves lapbooks, and we always end up not doing them because we're doing everything else instead.

Math because I do feel that one's necessary. But maybe not push it on days she resists. Right now I'm pushing to get us "caught back up" since we started over in Dec.

Science because it is her favorite. But I guess we would do only air or whatever she's interested in at the time and I would stop trying to get through our curriculum.

More art

 

The biggest difference between that and what we do now, is that I didn't list any LA :/

 

A typical day now:

HWT 10 min.

LS 10 min.

Spelling 20 min.

(AAR with sister 30 min.)

Master reader 20-30 min. - sometimes gets skipped

Math 30 min.

Science - alternating between air and RSO. Doesn't get done every day though she would prefer it did. usually 20-30 min.

read-alouds - 30-60 min depending on the day. They color, do puzzles, play with blocks....

 

Every once in a while we do some geography instead of science using EM and little passports. AiA is done only through read-aloud time.

[PeterPan]

If you called EI, would they get going with the 3 yo?  If she's having sensory issues like that, they might eval and cover OT, etc. for her.  

 

I'd be tempted to enroll one or both of them somewhere to give them peace.  Like maybe give the 3 yo a preschool where she could get started on that IEP process and get some services and get some peace, sort of a win-win.  In hindsite, I realized I could have let my ds go to something.  We're so independent when we homeschool, but we can get burnt out.  A little something we send them to where we get a break can be refreshing.  If it connects them with evals and services, it can be really good.  Homeschooling sometimes keeps us out of that loop.

 

You sound like you're working so hard!  You're trying things and you're looking for ways to adapt them to your realities.  That's the best you can do.  The raging of the 7 yo sounds scary.  I'll just ask.  What if you enrolled her in school?  Not the charter, I mean like just plop her right into the ps?  Eventually this stuff would (possibly) surface and they'd go through the IEP process and start covering some services.  That would be another way to get your 3yo some peace.  And maybe kind of a hard line in the sand, like no 7yo, this is not acceptable, do this and I'll have to put you in school, end of discussion.

 

Sorry it's so hard.  You're making a lot of good moves though, definitely.

[PeterPan]

Ooo, I LOVE your No Fear plan!!  That can be really good!!!   :)

 

What do you mean no LA??  What do you think lapbooks are?  That's tons of LA, baby!  Writing, dictation, copying, looking in a source for important details to include, punctuation, proofreading, typing...  Sure sounds like LA to me!  

 

And yes, that's EXACTLY what I was talking about.  Something that engages her, that let's her write and read about things she's interested in.  You can do the miniscule amount of grammar and conventions you need with lapbooking, absolutely.  She'll be engaged.  It would be great.  Definitely do it.   :)

 

Alternate for math?  Games of course!  That's what I do.  Of course, we're always doing math games, but I'm just saying some days we have RB lessons and some days it's like wow, mom is whatever or ds is fragile so we're just gonna play a game.  And that's OK.  I love the RB games.  She has a free sampler Math Games ebook and of course she has her other ebooks and printed books.  Even sudoku or yahtzee can be valuable.  My ds has dyscalculia, so even dot to dots or solitaire are a challenge for him and instructive.  

 

So yes, make a little pile of different kinds of games for math and let that kind of stuff be your alternate.  Also geometry kits.  If she's very VSL, she'll eat up geometry.  We got the K'nex geometry kit, and it's enjoyable.  Or google and build things with toothpicks or popsicle sticks or whatever you have.  Since she has no disability with the math (yes?), you probably have even more options open to you.  At that age I seem to recall I started doing the Math Olympiad problem books with dd.  You get them from the AOPS people.  I forget exactly when.  And there's living math books.  

 

I definitely think it's fine to have these alternate plans.  With my ds, I HAVE to have a plan B.  We even have plan C, oy.  Plan B is like he's a little fuzzy, a little zoned, but maybe we can do something.  Plan C is he's zoned and stimming but we can maybe function half the day at something.  Plan D (C-?) is he's gone, too fragile to work at all.  Not fun.  And I handle that by having these alternate, still worthwhile things we can do.  Like if he can come into my world and be stable half the day, cool, let's do K'nex or read alouds or play solitaire.  And if I get those things in, I know I'm working on my goals for him (sequencing numbers, counting by 2s, etc.), so I'm unapologetic, kwim?

 

I love that you're embracing the concept of what you would do if you weren't afraid.  I love how you're taking concepts and seeing how they would fit in your home.  That's what you want to do, so you're doing great!  You go girl!   :)

 

Edited February 9, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Seeking Squirrels]

I'm not sure with 3yo. She's doing so much better now than she was about a year ago. I was very close to calling and getting going with her when she started relaxing a bit. She spent christmas '14 hiding behind a giant stuffed animal with ear protection and an ipad and that was at the house with only 2 extra people. But last christmas she participated, even at the house with 9 extra people. And our last disney trip two weeks ago, she only used the ear protectors once vs half the time the trip before. So we don't know if she's got anything sensory going on, or if she just went through a really high anxiety phase. I don't know if her reactions to 7yo's rages are a good gauge because *I* want to hide and cover my ears when she gets going. We considered preschool, but it's not public here and it's just not in the budget. We also worried it would just add one more time commitment to our plate without actually accomplishing any goals.

 

Yes, I've considered sending DD7 to ps many times. If we weren't in the charter, I think I would have given it a go already. Who knows, maybe it would be great for her. But we would lose our place there. She does NOT want to go to ps. Her reasons for not wanting ps: 1-she doesn't want to be away from mommy and sissie all day, 2 - she doesn't want to have to wake up early, 3 - she likes being able to have her stuffed animal "friends" with her at all times. We're trying to hold out at least until we see how she does on the ADHD meds. Preferably we'd wait until after the full eval to make any decisions, but that might be quite a while.

[PeterPan]

Yes, the 3 yo still needs evals.  If she's still young enough to squeak in under EI, I would.  That's one of my regrets about ds, that I didn't bring in EI when he was 1 1/2-2.  We thought about it, and there was just this oh it's the gov't, I'm not sure.  Like I'm saying, it's one of my regrets, and I don't like having regrets.  You'd much rather have those interventions now.

[KSinNS]

Haven't read all the replies, so this may be answered. R&S is very religious, old order Mennonite. Lots of references to the bible and God, lots of moralizing. Most questions have about half the questions without a religious theme, so you can reduce it somewhat. Lots of pictures of farms and traditional gender roles. I know some secular families use it with no problems. We are Christian but find it a bit over the top. It is a good opportunity to discuss that different people believe different things. Other people find it pretty hard to get past the preaching. HTH.

[KSinNS]

BTW love the no fear plan.

[kbutton]

I think it's the book you wish you had when your older was 7 or 8.  I'm not sure if it helps you now.  The behaviorist and her staff are taking care of all this, yes?  And I don't think a non-ASD person needs it.  You would NOT bother with this level of detail and steps for a person with no developmental disabilities.  But I looked at it and went WOW, this will fill the gap for ds to be able to do narrations and some things he has been struggling with that I'd like to do with him and can't.  

 

So I have no clue.  Can you get it through a university library?  It's $55 on amazon right now.  I don't recall what I paid, sorry.  I can't fathom I paid $55, mercy.  Yup, just checked.  I got it used and paid less.  I think that's why I did it, because it was less.  But at $55, that's really in the wow I'd need to be certain I needed it, kwim?  If what you're doing is working, I think you're covered.  I think your people are doing similar things and it's getting you there.  I just don't know that you'd get $55 of benefit where you are now.  But me, having paid a bit less, I'm definitely getting my money's worth, mercy.

 

We've been piecing stuff together, and it's coming along. I don't know if it's smooth yet. Insight is always good. It's not been available from interlibrary loan when I've asked. Maybe I can get the library to buy it.

 

I don't know how to get things through university libraries--we have some local branches, but I don't know if they have good libraries, or if you have to go to main campus for that. Nothing is close enough to make it worth me driving, lol! 

 

Our tutors are awesome, but there are no resources that fit my son well. They are pulling from what they can and making up the rest (on good principles) as they go along. Remember, the writing/composition part is through an intervention specialist, not an autism specialist, though we all talk and plan.

[PeterPan]

Kbutton, all the universities will have their catalogs online.  You'll be able to search branches, main locations, and consortiums.  So no, don't drive.  Check online.  

 

I suppose there are other resources like this, but I thought their chapter on teaching the thought process was pretty sensible.  The goal of this book is to fill in the language holes to be able to mainstream.  It's not a chapter on writing instruction (how to write reports, etc.).  It's trying to build the skills that are missing so they can go into that other, traditional, curriculum and be there.

[kbutton]

Kbutton, all the universities will have their catalogs online.  You'll be able to search branches, main locations, and consortiums.  So no, don't drive.  Check online.  

 

I suppose there are other resources like this, but I thought their chapter on teaching the thought process was pretty sensible.  The goal of this book is to fill in the language holes to be able to mainstream.  It's not a chapter on writing instruction (how to write reports, etc.).  It's trying to build the skills that are missing so they can go into that other, traditional, curriculum and be there.

 

Sigh. He has holes. They stem from the some of the same stuff, but if they identify the holes as even numbers, his holes will be random odd numbers. :-) 

 

He's not unique--it's just that he's compensated well enough that his holes are in kind of funky places and finding and patching those holes sometimes is necessary, and sometimes they fill in anyway.

[Seeking Squirrels]

Ooo, I LOVE your No Fear plan!!  That can be really good!!!   :)

 

What do you mean no LA??  What do you think lapbooks are?  That's tons of LA, baby!  Writing, dictation, copying, looking in a source for important details to include, punctuation, proofreading, typing...  Sure sounds like LA to me!  

 

And yes, that's EXACTLY what I was talking about.  Something that engages her, that let's her write and read about things she's interested in.  You can do the miniscule amount of grammar and conventions you need with lapbooking, absolutely.  She'll be engaged.  It would be great.  Definitely do it.   :)

 

Alternate for math?  Games of course!  That's what I do.  Of course, we're always doing math games, but I'm just saying some days we have RB lessons and some days it's like wow, mom is whatever or ds is fragile so we're just gonna play a game.  And that's OK.  I love the RB games.  She has a free sampler Math Games ebook and of course she has her other ebooks and printed books.  Even sudoku or yahtzee can be valuable.  My ds has dyscalculia, so even dot to dots or solitaire are a challenge for him and instructive.  

 

So yes, make a little pile of different kinds of games for math and let that kind of stuff be your alternate.  Also geometry kits.  If she's very VSL, she'll eat up geometry.  We got the K'nex geometry kit, and it's enjoyable.  Or google and build things with toothpicks or popsicle sticks or whatever you have.  Since she has no disability with the math (yes?), you probably have even more options open to you.  At that age I seem to recall I started doing the Math Olympiad problem books with dd.  You get them from the AOPS people.  I forget exactly when.  And there's living math books.  

 

I definitely think it's fine to have these alternate plans.  With my ds, I HAVE to have a plan B.  We even have plan C, oy.  Plan B is like he's a little fuzzy, a little zoned, but maybe we can do something.  Plan C is he's zoned and stimming but we can maybe function half the day at something.  Plan D (C-?) is he's gone, too fragile to work at all.  Not fun.  And I handle that by having these alternate, still worthwhile things we can do.  Like if he can come into my world and be stable half the day, cool, let's do K'nex or read alouds or play solitaire.  And if I get those things in, I know I'm working on my goals for him (sequencing numbers, counting by 2s, etc.), so I'm unapologetic, kwim?

 

I love that you're embracing the concept of what you would do if you weren't afraid.  I love how you're taking concepts and seeing how they would fit in your home.  That's what you want to do, so you're doing great!  You go girl!   :)

 

I can come up with the plan, but I don't know if I can *do* it. I might be willing to give it a go, but I can seriously see myself slowly sneaking back in all the curriculum.

 

What about spelling, though? Should we keep doing AAS? She says she likes it. It's hit or miss how she responds during. Friday she jumped up and down and clapped when it was time for spelling. Yesterday she groaned. And Master Reader? I don't think she needs it, but she likes it. See? I'm already filling it back in. With AAS and MR, I'm only leaving HWT and LS behind for lapbooks.

 

I like the idea of math games for off days.

[Seeking Squirrels]

Yes, the 3 yo still needs evals.  If she's still young enough to squeak in under EI, I would.  That's one of my regrets about ds, that I didn't bring in EI when he was 1 1/2-2.  We thought about it, and there was just this oh it's the gov't, I'm not sure.  Like I'm saying, it's one of my regrets, and I don't like having regrets.  You'd much rather have those interventions now.

 

Yeah, one of my biggest regrets is not getting DD in sooner. I knew something was up with her by 18 months. But we didn't even start paperwork until she was 5 and she was 6 before we got the first dx and 6.5 before our first OT visit (besides the eval). Now finally a year later we're on the waitlist for full eval that's likely not to come until she's 8 or close to it. I try not to think about where we could be now if I'd gotten her in at 2.

[PeterPan]

Sigh. He has holes. They stem from the some of the same stuff, but if they identify the holes as even numbers, his holes will be random odd numbers. :-) 

 

He's not unique--it's just that he's compensated well enough that his holes are in kind of funky places and finding and patching those holes sometimes is necessary, and sometimes they fill in anyway.

The book does say up through teens.  If this intervention specialist really has no qualifications or materials, I'd be spitting.  But I think I'm part camel.  So sure, get them to buy the book with the scholarship funds.  It's outrageous for them to work randomly when there are known developmental patterns to this.

[PeterPan]

I can come up with the plan, but I don't know if I can *do* it. I might be willing to give it a go, but I can seriously see myself slowly sneaking back in all the curriculum.

 

What about spelling, though? Should we keep doing AAS? She says she likes it. It's hit or miss how she responds during. Friday she jumped up and down and clapped when it was time for spelling. Yesterday she groaned. And Master Reader? I don't think she needs it, but she likes it. See? I'm already filling it back in. With AAS and MR, I'm only leaving HWT and LS behind for lapbooks.

 

I like the idea of math games for off days.

I think you have to use your best judgment.  If something is not working, you change it.  You can change the materials, or you can change how you *use* the materials.  You've already seen (with the school thing) that she might like things for a different reason from what you wanted them.  She might not be achieving *your* goals but is getting something (also good) that she wants.  That's fine, but it's something you can slow down and analyze.  WHY does she like xyz?  What is it accomplishing?  

 

On the AAS, since you think it's working and since her enjoyment of it varies, I would just find some more flexible ways to use it, so you can shake things up.  If the main problem is Fridays and you're doing tests, then I would shake up that day with a jar of alternate activities.  You could make a list of 20 acceptable alternate ways to do that test (with paint, orally, typed, carved in clay, by dictating silly sentences, wiki sticks, with scrabble tiles, by making a crossword puzzle, by writing crazy sentences to use as many of the words from the list at once as you can, by making a comic strip with all the words, by making word art using some of the online word art generators and typing those words in, etc. etc.).  

 

I would drop things that either aren't working or that can't be modified to work better.  What if you take the thing that isn't working and only do ONE sentence from it?  Like instead of the whole page, what if you only did 1-3 of the things?  Different way to use the same thing.  Or what if you said ok we'll do it, but I'll type up those sentences for those 1-3 and we'll do them with cut up slips of paper or on a whiteboard instead?  Or what if you did them but you renamed everything in the sentences to fit her current obsessions?  

 

I think you can have different answers like that for each thing.  You just go through your list and use your gut on how to handle each thing.  It doesn't have to be the same thing every day.  You might decide ok, xyz curriculum has some value for us but we only need it 1-2 times a week for shorter doses (1-3 of the exercises), and all the other days we're going to do contextualized practice.  You could shake it up like that.

 

If your schedule/idea gets confusing, you make out a table and print it and put it in a page protector, so you know the plan and can work the plan.  Routines are fine.  They can vary from day to do, like M/W we do LC and AAS, T/R we do lapbooking, and Fridays we do spelling jar.  You can shake it up like that.  Just make a plan, print it, and post it so you can work the plan.  Give yourselves a reward each day for working the plan.  Let her hold you accountable to the plan by making it motivating.  :)

[Seeking Squirrels]

Haven't read all the replies, so this may be answered. R&S is very religious, old order Mennonite. Lots of references to the bible and God, lots of moralizing. Most questions have about half the questions without a religious theme, so you can reduce it somewhat. Lots of pictures of farms and traditional gender roles. I know some secular families use it with no problems. We are Christian but find it a bit over the top. It is a good opportunity to discuss that different people believe different things. Other people find it pretty hard to get past the preaching. HTH.

 

Thank you. I'd be one of the ones who would find it hard to get past.

[kbutton]

The book does say up through teens.  If this intervention specialist really has no qualifications or materials, I'd be spitting.  But I think I'm part camel.  So sure, get them to buy the book with the scholarship funds.  It's outrageous for them to work randomly when there are known developmental patterns to this.

 

Most people working with him with will always be broadly licensed intervention specialists unless we take him to an autism school, which would be a huge drive, not doable. I don't think they offer tutoring at those places either--they take the scholarship for tuition.

 

Our intervention specialist is very good. We discuss, we try stuff, we tweak. She met up with me at a homeschool convention last year and looked through resources with me. She's very, very responsive and intuitive. 2e is not anyone's typical gig or something that people get a lot of training for, and she has adapted very well. Keep in mind that my county has next to no services at all for anything either.