MFW high school vs. Sonlight Cores 100-400

[razorbackmama]

Can anyone compare and contrast these? I have a gazillion questions about both...

 

With SL:

Is there literary analysis?

I've read there isn't actual writing instruction, which is fine - we use IEW. But does it give guidelines about content when it comes to grading the writing assignments? Is there any sort of rubric?

What do people use for world history, since there isn't a true world history (only 20th century world history)?

 

With MFW:

If a student were to come in as a sophomore, what should he do, since the whole thing takes a solid 4 years to do?

Since we use IEW, will this be a problem when using the MFW writing assignments?

 

I like SL better than MFW in the younger years, but I like the content of MFW for high school better. However, the literature may be too difficult for my kids (my oldest in particular). Also, SL uses Hakim in 100, which my oldest LOVES. But it also uses a lot of historical fiction, which he hates LOL.

 

Help!

[jamajo]

I can only comment on MFW high school so here goes:

 

My dd has only been homeschooled since second semester of her 7th grade year. In 8th grade she did Classical Conversations Challenge A. CC uses IEW themed based lessons. She was writing a paper every other week for 30+ weeks give or take a week. As a result my daughter's writing skills improved 200+%.

 

So as I was considering MFW for high school I got lots of advice from the MFW people (at a vendor fair) and from here on the forums because I really wanted to start with MFW WHL not MFW AHL. Many felt if my dd had strong writing skills she would be fine in WHL. The MFW guy mentioned his concern for missing the first 9 units in Notgrass that is covered in AHL. So to remedy that I had her cover the 9 units during the summer and we dove right into WHL in August. She has been doing great! She is doing a lot less writing than what she did in CC but I tried to add in extras where I could. My dd says the Writers, Inc. is very helpful in guiding her in the writing assignments. When I edit I still refer to IEW styling techniques to improve her writing. So IEW hasn't completely gone away.

 

The reason I chose to start in WHL was to include community college in her last two years of high school. I am also following the graduation plan for my state which does not include Ancients. This is my first homeschool grad so I didn't want to veer off the path too far.

 

Since I will have my younger kids a lot longer than my oldest I plan to have my youngers do MFW AHL & MFW WHL. I will still use the last two years of high school for community college and other items I want to add into their education.

 

Just my experience. Hope it helps.

[razorbackmama]

Thanks! Would you say that it would be difficult to use IEW instead of the writing instruction in WHL? I'm thinking that would be pretty confusing, right?

[jamajo]

Well for WHL some of the writing assignment include: writing poems, speech, editorials. I don't think IEW covers this type of writing.

 

The first assignment was to write a play after reading Julius Caesar. I changed the assignment from a play to a character analysis. For an assignment like that IEW would work as it is more of an essay type assignment.

[Julie in MN]

With MFW:

If a student were to come in as a sophomore, what should he do, since the whole thing takes a solid 4 years to do?

Since we use IEW, will this be a problem when using the MFW writing assignments?

 

I like SL better than MFW in the younger years, but I like the content of MFW for high school better. However, the literature may be too difficult for my kids (my oldest in particular).

 

I used SL for one high school year, but it may have changed since then. There wasn't any writing instruction that I recall, but again I'm not a good source on that.

 

We're in WHL right now and I have son who does NOT like to read, would rather do 100 math problems LOL. Are you thinking of WHL, rather than starting with AHL? If so, I'll just give you a brief overview of my son's reaction to the reading in WHL so far:

 

Not hard at all for him:

Heroes of the Faith

More Than a Carpenter

Experiencing God

Practicing His Presence

New Testament - his favorite (he often uses audio)

Notgrass (tho the quizzes have been a learning curve, and the purple documents book we often do together because I *LOVE* it and he wouldn't appreciate it without some encouragement)

 

A little challenging, but do-able:

Beowulf (not that long, & we used an audiobook)

Pilgrim's Progress in Modern English (side-by-side with original)

British Literature (mostly short works or excerpts with helpful intros/bios)

Julius Caesar (he did this with his book club, and we did some together)

 

Hardest for him, so I help:

Church History in Plain Language (I read this to him & we discuss a lot)

A Tale of Two Cities (it's an abridged version which helps, plus I annotated for him)

 

We haven't done these yet but they all seem good & do-able:

Pride and Prejudice (this would have been hard for my son, but his book club is studying To Kill A Mockingbird so I'm counting that instead)

Silas Marner (looks do-able but we subbed for something in his book club)

Cry, the Beloved Country

Hudson Taylor's Spiritual Secret

The Hiding Place

Animal Farm

In His Steps

 

 

Julie

Edited April 13, 2012 by Julie in MN

[razorbackmama]

Thanks, Julie!

 

Yes, I've heard that SL 100 doesn't have any actual writing instruction, but that probably wouldn't be a huge deal since we use IEW.

 

Thanks for sharing your son's experience!

[grace4me]

I think it depends on the history rotation that you/your child want to cover during HS. With DD#1, we had planned to do SL, so I had her do a 1yr WH in 9th for some background (we started HS'g her in 6th w/SL and did 2 yrs of AmHist and Eastern Hem.). We switched to MFW for 10th, but chose to start with AHL, 11th will be WHL and 12th will be AmHist w/Govt. We used IEW for writing to get all three up-to-speed and confident. DD1 is reluctant writer and has made huge progress. I picked and chose writing out of AHL.

 

MFW says it is do-able to do USHist1 & 2 in one year and I will be talking to them more about it next year. Looking at Notgrass also. So far, planning to use MFW with the two youngers (9th & 8th next year) all through HS. But, youngest is using BiblioPlan this year (yr2) and loving it. I may consider BP for her..... always open to hearing what worked for others!

[razorbackmama]

MFW says it is do-able to do USHist1 & 2 in one year and I will be talking to them more about it next year.

Oooooh I'd love to hear more about this!

[grace4me]

I'd love to give you more info, but I don't know either. Call MFW and speak to Bret. Keep me posted on what you learn!

[cbollin]

What Bret told me on that is that for a 12th grader who needs a full year of US history... his son was able to do

US1 with the Gov't

and then do the history only from US2 as independent study.

His son also did the CLEP US 1 and did fine on that.

 

But he didn't do both programs with all of the English, History and Bible from 2 years.

 

But, yeah.. if you are looking at a 12th grader who needs to get full year in.. call mfw office and ask for them to share more.

 

-crystal

[razorbackmama]

I picked and chose writing out of AHL.

I'd also love to hear more about this. This has been ds's first year of IEW, so next year he will be doing SICC-B. Would this be a problem to instead of the writing instruction in MFW? He's doing well with IEW - I don't want to confuse him LOL.

[razorbackmama]

Oh man, I think I had pretty much decided on MFW. But then I realized that my ds has not studied American history since he was in about the 3rd grade or so. (And even then it wasn't all of American history...he has never studied from the Civil War on.) :glare: There are a myriad of reasons for that, but it is what it is. So if I do MFW then that will be 2 more years before he'll study American history, and then he'll get 2 years of it crammed into one year.

 

I don't know if I like that.:glare:

 

BUT I really think that MFW might work best for him (and us). Hmmmmmm.

 

We have the whole Hakim series borrowed from our charter school...I wonder if I could assign him to read them over the summer (he LOOOOOOOOOOOOVES them, so this won't be a huge burden for him) so he can at least get a quick overview of the basics of American history????? Then dive into AHL for his sophomore year?

[Cheryl B in VA]

Kirstin,

It actually would not be two years of American history in one year. 11th grade MFW is 1 semester of history and 1 semester of government. 12th grade is the second semester of history and 1 semester of economics. FYI the American history is just going through the BJU textbook and student workbook with BJU tests. 11th grade has early American literature that is put together nicely. 12th grade has 1 semester of American literature but it basically just has a reading list with a book report after each book. 12th grade second semester English is a speech course. HTH. My son is doing 11th grade MFW this year without any adjustments. I am ordering 12th grade for next year but may do something different for English. PM me if you have any more questions.

[razorbackmama]

Kirstin,

It actually would not be two years of American history in one year. 11th grade MFW is 1 semester of history and 1 semester of government. 12th grade is the second semester of history and 1 semester of economics. FYI the American history is just going through the BJU textbook and student workbook with BJU tests. 11th grade has early American literature that is put together nicely. 12th grade has 1 semester of American literature but it basically just has a reading list with a book report after each book. 12th grade second semester English is a speech course. HTH. My son is doing 11th grade MFW this year without any adjustments. I am ordering 12th grade for next year but may do something different for English. PM me if you have any more questions.

Hmmmmm!!!!! This helps!

 

If I wanted to squeeze it into 1 year, how might I go about it? He technically has a 1/2 credit of government already, but he struggled with it. I was thinking about doing some extra stuff here and there to help him understand that 1/2 credit a little better.;) Economics would be great, but I guess not totally necessary, especially since we wouldn't have a lot of time.

 

Explain to me a bit more about the history though? Would you say it would be basically the same as using BJU for history? Is what makes MFW different the way it ties in the other subjects?:confused:

[cbollin]

just clarifying my earlier statement... when I used the terms 2 years.. I was referring to the overall programs of US1 and US2 as full years. sorry for confusing it. ;)

 

us 1 - has the first part of the credit

us 2 has the second part of the credit.

 

But, yeah.. if you are looking at a 12th grader who needs to get full year in.. call mfw office and ask for them to share more. Ask for Bret. His son did something similar to what you want to do and he would have that first hand experience with it.

 

Basically, if all you did was the full BJU for history, you'd have enough from the MFW US2 program.

There is a tiny tiny bit more to that credit, but not worth sweating it if you don't get to do it. (current events, prayer stuff, a few extra primary source readings - that kind of stuff.... don't sweat that)

 

So.. you'd go through the history in US 1.

when you get to the part where Gov't is started... you do Gov't readings, and continue with the BJU book in order following format.

 

at least, if I understand Bret's recommendations based on his office work and his own son's work.

 

-crystal

[razorbackmama]

Well toot...I'm not crazy about using just BJU for history...if I wanted to do that then I'd use BJU for history LOL!

 

Hmmmmm....

[cbollin]

Well toot...I'm not crazy about using just BJU for history...if I wanted to do that then I'd use BJU for history LOL!

 

Hmmmmm....

 

I wasn't too crazy b/c of bju's rep at being anti catholic. But apparently in 3rd edition in high school book, they were actually nice. I heard MFW's david hazell saying they didn't want to use bju because of the anti catholic feel to most of their stuff and rejected some of their other books from it.

 

anyway... not to stir up that issue.(eek). but if that is one of the reasons to not be crazy about it.. thought i'd mention it.

 

hmm.... why do I feel it's back to the drawing board for you? hate that feeling, don't you?

 

:grouphug:

 

-crystal

[razorbackmama]

I was looking for something that tied together several different materials so that it wouldn't be from strictly one point of view. That *is* good to know about the anti-Catholic stuff though!:thumbup1:

 

Yes, I'm thinking it's back to the drawing board...and YES, I hate that feeling LOL!

[3boysmama]

I was looking for something that tied together several different materials so that it wouldn't be from strictly one point of view. That *is* good to know about the anti-Catholic stuff though!:thumbup1:

 

Yes, I'm thinking it's back to the drawing board...and YES, I hate that feeling LOL!

 

I'm not to this point yet, but I am planning for my oldest ds's future as well, so take this with a grain of salt. But, what if you did MFW, and when you got to American History switched to Sonlight and did their Core 100 & 400 which is American & Government. It's just a thought, since I was thinking of doing MFW all the way through also, but I'm not very keen on the BJU textbook in their 11th and 12th, and am considering this direction.

 

Anywho, hope you and I both get our plans figured out soon. :tongue_smilie:

[razorbackmama]

I'm not to this point yet, but I am planning for my oldest ds's future as well, so take this with a grain of salt. But, what if you did MFW, and when you got to American History switched to Sonlight and did their Core 100 & 400 which is American & Government. It's just a thought, since I was thinking of doing MFW all the way through also, but I'm not very keen on the BJU textbook in their 11th and 12th, and am considering this direction.

 

Anywho, hope you and I both get our plans figured out soon. :tongue_smilie:

I'm pondering something similar for #2. I wonder how difficult it would be to combine 100 and 400.:confused:

 

My oldest already has a 1/2 credit in govt., so we've gotten that taken care of. I'd like him to get a 1/2 credit of economics at some point, so I'm pondering SL's Economics course alongside Core 530 (for the British lit).

 

I think that's something else I really liked about the MFW - it included the standard 1/2 credit of govt. and 1/2 credit of econ that most kids need. I just wish they had done their usual thing for American history instead of using a straight textbook!:glare:

[cbollin]

 

I think that's something else I really liked about the MFW - it included the standard 1/2 credit of govt. and 1/2 credit of econ that most kids need. I just wish they had done their usual thing for American history instead of using a straight textbook!:glare:

 

hmm. thinking out loud...

with the straight text approach, plus timeline and current events

and CLEP prep with the REA guide.

in US1, there is the literature tie in and Worldview tie in...

 

so.. I think they are still blending "text" and "living books".. it's just in US1 the living books section of it gets to be the Stobaugh literature.

 

then the worldview lessons tie in with the Stobaugh stuff and assignments...(and yeah, a Progeny Press guide too)

 

I mean.. yeah, when you look at the "history" grid boxes, it is textbook approach.. but this time instead of book basket to round out with living books... it's assigned readers and done in "english" grid.

 

but for that cram full history credit from both programs into 12th grade... hmm..

 

it's tightly connected the way I see it in the US 1 manual..

 

hmmm.. the more I type that out.. the more I see the mfw flavor even if it's a text driving it instead of something like SOTW in the lower years...

 

-crystal

there's enough to count credit in both subjects.

[razorbackmama]

hmm. thinking out loud...

with the straight text approach, plus timeline and current events

and CLEP prep with the REA guide.

in US1, there is the literature tie in and Worldview tie in...

 

so.. I think they are still blending "text" and "living books".. it's just in US1 the living books section of it gets to be the Stobaugh literature.

 

then the worldview lessons tie in with the Stobaugh stuff and assignments...(and yeah, a Progeny Press guide too)

 

I mean.. yeah, when you look at the "history" grid boxes, it is textbook approach.. but this time instead of book basket to round out with living books... it's assigned readers and done in "english" grid.

 

but for that cram full history credit from both programs into 12th grade... hmm..

 

it's tightly connected the way I see it in the US 1 manual..

 

hmmm.. the more I type that out.. the more I see the mfw flavor even if it's a text driving it instead of something like SOTW in the lower years...

 

-crystal

there's enough to count credit in both subjects.

Oh that does make sense. BJU becomes the "spine" like SOTW was in the lower grades. Hmmmmm.

 

DRAT CRYSTAL! NOW I'M BACK ON THE FENCE AGAIN!

 

:D

[razorbackmama]

OK another question about MFW. I'm looking at the samples, and on the schedule I see "Reading." What is that?:confused:

[Julie in MN]

OK another question about MFW. I'm looking at the samples, and on the schedule I see "Reading." What is that?:confused:

 

In AHL, there are days when extra "reading" is optional. There is a short list of fun books that relate to the time periods in the manual, which you can plug in if you like. Some real academic sorts might want to plug in more ancient tombs. My son plugged in his book club books in those slots. It's usually scheduled when the day doesn't have a full literature + writing coverage, but again not every student will need to add something. On the AHL sample week, my son was probably editing his writing assignment in those slots.

 

In WHL, there are far fewer slots for optional extra reading (although of course each family can read as much as they like). There is a nice list of videos that relate to the historical time periods. The sample of WHL, though, is from one of the 8 week where a research paper is the main focus, so the reading is optional during those weeks. Some kids will automatically have things to jot down in those slots, and others might cross them off. My son did a lot of outside interviews for his research paper, plus again he has book club, so I didn't assign anything extra myself.

 

HTH,

Julie

[razorbackmama]

In AHL, there are days when extra "reading" is optional. There is a short list of fun books that relate to the time periods in the manual, which you can plug in if you like. Some real academic sorts might want to plug in more ancient tombs. My son plugged in his book club books in those slots. It's usually scheduled when the day doesn't have a full literature + writing coverage, but again not every student will need to add something. On the AHL sample week, my son was probably editing his writing assignment in those slots.

 

In WHL, there are far fewer slots for optional extra reading (although of course each family can read as much as they like). There is a nice list of videos that relate to the historical time periods. The sample of WHL, though, is from one of the 8 week where a research paper is the main focus, so the reading is optional during those weeks. Some kids will automatically have things to jot down in those slots, and others might cross them off. My son did a lot of outside interviews for his research paper, plus again he has book club, so I didn't assign anything extra myself.

 

HTH,

Julie

Ah OK. So it's simply optional then? Not required in order to count as a credit or fully comprehend the material?

 

Thanks!

[Julie in MN]

Ah OK. So it's simply optional then? Not required in order to count as a credit or fully comprehend the material?

 

Thanks!

Yes, you won't see it on the grading rubric.

 

Julie

[Melissa in CA]

I'm pondering something similar for #2. I wonder how difficult it would be to combine 100 and 400.:confused:

My oldest already has a 1/2 credit in govt., so we've gotten that taken care of. I'd like him to get a 1/2 credit of economics at some point, so I'm pondering SL's Economics course alongside Core 530 (for the British lit).

 

I think that's something else I really liked about the MFW - it included the standard 1/2 credit of govt. and 1/2 credit of econ that most kids need. I just wish they had done their usual thing for American history instead of using a straight textbook!:glare:

 

Oh my word! Don't even THINK about combining SL Core 100 and Core 400. In fact, if you want my opinion, don't even think about Core 400 at all! It's awful. The WORST SL Core we ever used, and except for the preschool cores, Core 7 (not sure what it's called now) and Core 200, I've used them all. If you want to torture your child though, then by all means...:lol:

 

As for BJU's History. I don't know, perhaps it's my ds, but he loves BJU's History texts. One of the very reason's I even looked at MFW for high school was because I heard/read that they were using BJU for US History. The BJU Activity Guide brings it all together with fun, and oftentimes challenging, exercises, mapping assignments, etc. We are actually looking forward to it, and quite honestly, I'll take a BJU History text over Notgrass any day. ;) Not that Notgrass has been bad used with MFW, but, I don't know, I just feel kinda....meh...about it. I would never use JUST Notgrass for history but I would most definitely use just BJU. It is more meaty. More high school level. And I have honestly never seen any anti-catholic teaching in their books. I have always found them very balanced. :confused: I've not used them all though.

 

Have you thought about just using SL Core 100 for your high school US history? You could easily adjust the Literature to make it a high school level American Lit credit. Core 100 was probably our favorite of all the SL Cores. Then next year you could go back to Ancient with MFW, followed by MFW's WHL. I can't recall what grade your student it going into. If 9th then you could save 12th grade for your government and econ. If 10th then you could add in a government text with Core 100, or add it in to your 12th grade. Or skip Ancients...most high school's don't require it...and just do a year of WHL and then a year of Government/Econ.

 

Adjusting/tweaking a SL Core kind of takes some of the ease of use away from it because you'll be freaking out the whole schedule, but it can be done.

 

Personally, I am happy to be using MFW. It's been such a nice relaxing year for me and my ds has yet to complain. He is currently listening/reading Odyssey and loves it! He got burnt out on historical fiction years ago with SL, but he's really loving the Great Books scheduled in AHL. Good stuff.

[razorbackmama]

Oh my word! Don't even THINK about combining SL Core 100 and Core 400. In fact, if you want my opinion, don't even think about Core 400 at all! It's awful. The WORST SL Core we ever used, and except for the preschool cores, Core 7 (not sure what it's called now) and Core 200, I've used them all. If you want to torture your child though, then by all means...:lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Have you thought about just using SL Core 100 for your high school US history? You could easily adjust the Literature to make it a high school level American Lit credit. Core 100 was probably our favorite of all the SL Cores. Then next year you could go back to Ancient with MFW, followed by MFW's WHL. I can't recall what grade your student it going into. If 9th then you could save 12th grade for your government and econ. If 10th then you could add in a government text with Core 100, or add it in to your 12th grade. Or skip Ancients...most high school's don't require it...and just do a year of WHL and then a year of Government/Econ.

Drat, that's another option I hadn't considered!:lol:

 

My oldest is going into 10th and has a 1/2 credit of govt. already. But I have a whole slew of others behind him, and I want to try to use the same thing for everyone. Hmmmmm I'll give this idea some serious thought!

 

Adjusting/tweaking a SL Core kind of takes some of the ease of use away from it because you'll be freaking out the whole schedule, but it can be done.

Exactly. Part of the reason I am loving SL (that's what we are using now) is because I DON'T HAVE TO TWEAK.