*Calling all Veteran Homeschoolers....AP,SAT Subject,& or Clep for Biology???????????

[cshell]

Anyone who has done the college process.....

Please honestly tell me......

 

Which of these tests really matters...or should we do them all?

Do they all just get stored until you send the to a college?

 

Thank you for your help!:001_smile:

Blessings!!

[Faithr]

I'm not an expert at all because we've only dipped our toes into these tests. However, I am under the impression that SAT subject tests get your student into competitive colleges. AP can do this as well and MAY give the student college credit once accepted. CLEP doesn't get you into college, as far as I know but it can help the student get past the basic 101 courses in a subject. However, not all colleges accept all CLEP test scores. So it is prudent to call or find on line the list of CLEP tests they do take and what score they base their decision on. It is wise to call the admission offices of the colleges you are thinking of and ask them about their schools view of these tests.

[amtmcm]

I've read that if you have too many college credits through CLEP (or Community College) that your student can be viewed as a transfer student and may impact scholarships. This evidently isn't an issue with AP or IB (International Baccalaureate) credits. I read this in a homeschooling magazine which wasn't footnoted with a reference, so I'm not sure of the validity, but I've kept the thought in the back of my mind.

 

Here's a good discussion on College Confidential. As the previous poster stated, this discussion says the AP test is considered during admissions, but CLEP isn't.

 

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/home-schooling-college/85311-clep-vs-ap.html

 

Some schools (ie: Harvard) include SAT II Subject Tests for Admissions Requirements. Harvard requires two SAT II tests and I'm sure this varies by college. As far as I know, the public universities in Texas (ie: UT & A&M) do not require SAT IIs.

 

Some colleges specifically recommend not taking AP's or CC classes for an intended major. They don't want students to test out of the introductory classes for their major. This makes sense - it ensures continuity for coursework in the degree they issue. They recommend testing out of other general ed classes required to graduate. My DD wants to major in a life science, so she will take AP's for history, lit, and government.

 

Hope this helps with your research. I've been contemplating this issue too.

[FloridaLisa]

Anyone who has done the college process.....

Please honestly tell me......

 

Which of these tests really matters...or should we do them all?

Do they all just get stored until you send the to a college?

 

Thank you for your help!:001_smile:

Blessings!!

 

cshell,

 

The tests that matter are those that may be required by a university that your dc is interested in or those that fit your dc's educational goals. :001_smile: It's a broad generalization b/c it can look different for different kids. Have you read the older threads on these exams? There have been several really good ones, including a thread that compared the advantages and disadvantages of the tests.

 

Keep in mind, that SATIIs are for admission purposes only. Your dc will earn no college credit for an exam score.

 

AP exams can be used for both admissions and college credit purposes. Your dc might get a bump for grades earned in AP classes (depends on the college). Also, your dc can choose whether to take the AP college credit (again, if the college awards it; most do but some don't).

 

We have very little experience with CLEP. CLEPs are used to earn college credit. I'm not sure whether they make a student standout for admission purposes. I'd be interested in hearing from folks on this.

 

My oldest only did AP testing. I believe it made a huge difference for admissions purposes b/c it made him a competitive student and really weighted his GPA (as did his dual enrollment courses). But this is a cookie cutter state school; small colleges and LACs might be different. His APs also really *mattered* b/c they challenged him in high school. He really learned how to study, how to work hard and through a weekend, and how to study for final exams. <------- a weakness for many homeschooled students.

 

Heading off to give spelling words. The older threads are a wealth of information!

Lisa

 

ETA: Recalling you asked specifically about AP bio.;) While ds got a good score on the AP bio test, he elected not to take the college credit b/c he wanted to earn As in bio I and II to factor into his GPA. AP bio provided an excellent foundation for bio I and II. The classes have in no way been redundant. So you'll want to consider that while your dc can earn college credit through CLEP and AP exams, they will not get a college grade for that class.

Edited January 10, 2011 by FloridaLisa

[creekland]

Besides what others have said, consider your student's goals. My middle son wants to go to med school. Even if the undergrad he chooses to attend accepts AP credit for a class, most med schools won't (that is, not for science - some not for Calc - English and others are ok). They won't accept cc class credit either (again, for science classes). Based on that knowledge we're going to stick with SAT II for Chem and Bio even though he's kinda prepped to have taken the APs for both. He will still take the AP Stats though (assuming I can find a school within 90 minutes of here that offers it).

 

He's already taken a cc 200 level microbio class, but will only use that A (and the professor's LOR) to get admitted to undergrad. He'll be retaking the course at a 4 year school due to med school needs.

 

If graduate school isn't a concern, then a good AP score might get college credit (it depends on the college).

[AngieW in Texas]

My oldest didn't do any SAT-II tests or AP tests. She has done a lot of dual credit courses though and will have 50 college credits when she graduates high school in May. The one and only school that she was interested in attending (and the one and only place she applied) accepted her as a freshman with a great merit scholarship. Since it's a public school and they have a matriculation agreement with the cc, they will take her cc credits.

[amtmcm]

cshell,

Keep in mind, that SATIIs are for admission purposes only. Your dc will earn no college credit for an exam score.

 

I think this is generally true, but some colleges do give college credit for SAT IIs. Here's a link from Texas A&M for the SAT II scores needed for credit:

 

http://mars.tamu.edu/testingsite/PDFfiles/SATIISubjectTests.pdf

[MomsintheGarden]

You have gotten great advice so far. Here are what I think are the most important things to consider about these tests, after going through the AP & CLEP process with my oldest two. We didn't do SAT II tests, but I will probably do them with some of my younger dc.

 

1. As Creekland said above, plan according to your student's goals. You should look at potential college websites for admission criteria (note any special homeschool requirements). Also search for "AP Credit" and "CLEP Credit." Most colleges should have credit equivalencies on their websites along with the maximum Credit by Exam (CBE) given.

 

2. If you want your dc to have CBE and are undecided on which college(s) they will attend, I recommend going the AP route. From what I've seen, more B&M 4-year colleges award credit for AP than for CLEP. That said, both of my two oldest have received CLEP credit.

 

3. Become familiar with the tests by reading about them on the CB website. Read about the tests on places like the WTM board and College Confidential, but keep in mind that a lot of the advice is opinion-based.

 

4. I disagree with the opinion that AP is not robust enough for in-major courses or recognized by medical schools. Our family attended a medical school open house, and I asked if they would accept AP credit for the sciences. The admissions staff said yes, absolutely. Many medical school applicants have received AP credit. It would be impractical for medical schools to not allow it. Grades in upper-level courses must be stellar, of course, but there is no guarantee that a student will receive high grades in retakes of intro courses. Dd (biochem major) earned a 5 on the AP Chemistry exam. She felt well-prepared for organic chemistry I, is taking organic II as honors (a rare allowance by the prof), and has been asked to be a TA for organic next year.

 

5. Just do the best you can, and try not to stress about what to do. This is the most difficult piece of advice to follow. It is often impossible to predict where your dc will actually attend, and a lot of planning depends on that.

 

HTH.

 

GardenMom

[creekland]

 

4. I disagree with the opinion that AP is not robust enough for in-major courses or recognized by medical schools. Our family attended a medical school open house, and I asked if they would accept AP credit for the sciences. The admissions staff said yes, absolutely. Many medical school applicants have received AP credit. It would be impractical for medical schools to not allow it. Grades in upper-level courses must be stellar, of course, but there is no guarantee that a student will receive high grades in retakes of intro courses. Dd (biochem major) earned a 5 on the AP Chemistry exam. She felt well-prepared for organic chemistry I, is taking organic II as honors (a rare allowance by the prof), and has been asked to be a TA for organic next year.

 

GardenMom

 

There are two things that come to mind that I should clarify with my advice vs this.

 

The first is that my son really is hoping to get into a top med school, and like all other schools, they can vary quite a bit.

 

The second is that the vast majority of my info comes from the Pre-Med section of College Confidential (advice on there ranges from pre-med students to admissions folks at med schools as well as parents, etc - it varies). I do NOT (yet) have practical experience myself. I'm just using the advice of others to try to avoid making the mistakes ourselves as much as we can (see my sig ;)). Take relayed advice for what it's worth (or check out college confidential itself for a first hand viewing).

 

The majority advice on there has been to not use AP credit in college for the sciences (and in some cases, Calc) as the majority of med schools do not like to see them (or cc classes) for the science credits. Considering half of all med school applicants never make it in to any med school (top or otherwise) and the top med schools have acceptance rates of 15% or less, well, we're going with the majority advice. I do NOT absolutely KNOW that the majority advice is correct.

 

That said, if AP were more available in our neck of the woods, I'd love for my guy to have more on his transcript just to be more competitive overall. We just won't use the science credits personally - just in case the majority advice is indeed true and it could/would make my guy less competitive down the road. (Better safe than sorry I suppose.)

[MomsintheGarden]

There are two things that come to mind that I should clarify with my advice vs this.

 

The first is that my son really is hoping to get into a top med school, and like all other schools, they can vary quite a bit.

 

The second is that the vast majority of my info comes from the Pre-Med section of College Confidential (advice on there ranges from pre-med students to admissions folks at med schools as well as parents, etc - it varies). I do NOT (yet) have practical experience myself. I'm just using the advice of others to try to avoid making the mistakes ourselves as much as we can (see my sig ;)). Take relayed advice for what it's worth (or check out college confidential itself for a first hand viewing).

 

The majority advice on there has been to not use AP credit in college for the sciences (and in some cases, Calc) as the majority of med schools do not like to see them (or cc classes) for the science credits. Considering half of all med school applicants never make it in to any med school (top or otherwise) and the top med schools have acceptance rates of 15% or less, well, we're going with the majority advice. I do NOT absolutely KNOW that the majority advice is correct.

 

That said, if AP were more available in our neck of the woods, I'd love for my guy to have more on his transcript just to be more competitive overall. We just won't use the science credits personally - just in case the majority advice is indeed true and it could/would make my guy less competitive down the road. (Better safe than sorry I suppose.)

I've taken a look at College Confidential and some med school websites, and it looks like AP will work for a student if he/she takes upper level science classes and gets great grades in them (except if you want to go to med school at a CA state school). It will be interesting to see how things work out. Dd did not do the Biology AP, and found the first two college bio classes (general bio for majors and zoology) fairly easy. She is leaning more toward research, so we might not find out about med school admissions in her case. Please keep posting, because I for one am very interested in how these bright, motivated homeschool graduates do!

 

GardenMom

[Laurie4b]

Here's a good discussion on College Confidential. As the previous poster stated, this discussion says the AP test is considered during admissions, but CLEP isn't.

 

[Hope this helps with your research. I've been contemplating this issue too.

 

It really depends on the college. Some colleges look at how many AP courses you took and don't look at the actual scores until after admission. They look at AP tests to determine the rigor of the high school experience.

 

As always, check the colleges your student is interested in.

[creekland]

I've taken a look at College Confidential and some med school websites, and it looks like AP will work for a student if he/she takes upper level science classes and gets great grades in them (except if you want to go to med school at a CA state school). It will be interesting to see how things work out. Dd did not do the Biology AP, and found the first two college bio classes (general bio for majors and zoology) fairly easy. She is leaning more toward research, so we might not find out about med school admissions in her case. Please keep posting, because I for one am very interested in how these bright, motivated homeschool graduates do!

 

GardenMom

 

I, personally, think my guy will end up going into research as well once he sees the opportunities and gets involved in research in undergrad, but, for now, he says med school, so that's what I'm going off of as his high school guidance counselor. I'm actually hoping all the advanced science he's doing now in high school will make his science classes easy in college, so I'm glad to hear it's worked for your daughter!

[cshell]

:001_smile:

[Karen in CO]

Take a look at some of the colleges that might be in your future to see what they require and accept from homeschoolers. Most of the schools my ds applied to required that homeschoolers take 2 SAT Subject test - one of which had to be a math in addition to his SAT or ACT scores. He took the literature exam and a math.

[MomsintheGarden]

Take a look at some of the colleges that might be in your future to see what they require and accept from homeschoolers. Most of the schools my ds applied to required that homeschoolers take 2 SAT Subject test - one of which had to be a math in addition to his SAT or ACT scores. He took the literature exam and a math.

:iagree:

While neither of our two oldest needed to take SAT IIs for college, I highly recommend that you have your dc do this if it is all practical. The best time to schedule one of these is directly after finishing a subject, but before the 12th grade college application season.

 

GardenMom

[moki4]

GardenMom,

Just wondering about the exception with CA schools? I am following the HS boards very closely now, as Dd will be entering 9th soon!

Thanks in advance:)

[flyingiguana]

There are a lot of colleges that don't care about SAT II's. It might be nice to take them as insurance if your student has no idea what colleges they want to apply to, but they might not be necessary.

 

There are some colleges that look at AP scores for admission but don't accept them for AP credit (and it will vary by the test and the score). If you can research colleges now, you really might want to do that. The AP tests take a lot of prep time. If the intent is to get college credit but your student ends up at a school that doesn't accept them for credit, will it have been a waste of time? Will they make it so you don't get other things done that you'd wished you'd gotten done? (I think a couple AP tests, even if not accepted for credit, are a valuable way for a student to learn. But more than a couple, if there's no college credit, might eat up time that might be better spent.)

 

There's not much rhyme or reason to which colleges accept AP and which don't.

 

CLEP is supposed to be an easier test than either of the other 2. People I've known who used CLEP took the test once they were in college and already knew that it would count for something. Most of them didn't even study. I don't know if most people could get away with that, but they did.

 

As far as getting college credit is concerned, you may end up finding out that your student will get lots of credit for AP/CLEP etc, but it might be credits they don't need. My daughter will get credit for the US History AP, but it won't do her any good because of the sequence of classes she has to take otherwise. The history and some other requirement are bundled into one class. She could only get out of that class if she had an AP for the other requirement (which I can't remember what it is, and there may not even be an AP option for). So the history AP turned out not to do her any good except for admissions.

 

So in my daughter's case, she's really only getting AP credit for the AP test she took within her major (calculus) and not for the one she took outside her major (history). So much for the advice to only go for AP credit outside the intended major.

 

The bottom line is, you're just not going to know until it's too late to change what you did. I wouldn't obsess too much about planning college credits because things won't work out the way you planned -- and probably not the way they worked out for anyone else either. There are just too many variables.

 

I'd work on a solid education and let things sort themselves out later. If AP fits into your educational goals, then go ahead and do it. If you're only doing it for college credit and your student is not very happy about doing them, you might want to reconsider.

[moki4]

F.I. thank you for your insight!

Boy, you are certainly correct. You are the first to report (that I have heard) an example of an AP class/test credit within a major!

I am off to scan a few college admissions criteria for HS's.

Again, thank you so very much! I have been fretting trying to plan HS with so many options. I will choose (Dd also) wisely and will not forget that best made plans will be broken!:)