Queen's Language Lessons vs. BJU English

[...................]

OK, so maybe they're apples and oranges but talk to me. I am thinking of Queen's LL supplemented with some quick daily writing prompts, or BJU English.

 

My kids are both verbal kids, so far my son is not allergic to pencils and he enjoys writing for his age, I guess.

 

I like the layout of BJU because I like the writing - it seems really well done. I also like workbooks.

 

BUT I like the gentleness of Queen's and I wonder if all that intensive writing instruction could be put off for later, in favor of some quick daily Evan Moor assignments that just work on sentence clarity.

 

:confused:

[Donna A.]

I like both but for different reasons. Maybe you could get both and alternate them?

[angela&4boys]

I'll bite. We've used both.

 

Queen is wonderful... for a season... literally and figuratively. Some lessons are very gentle and can be doubled or even tripled up. It's also a nice break if you've been doing something rigorous. You could really complete a book over the summer. I regret that I used it through an entire year as I feel my boys were set back some in terms of grammar. If your dc retains information easily and with little practice, you may like it.

 

BJUP has a nice balance. We first used it after my boys came home from a classical school where they used Shurley. I was very pleased with both the grammar and writing portions of BJUP. The writing is very thorough and broken down into very doable steps and the instruction within the student worktext is excellent. It's also very affordable if you order the TM from Christian Liberty Press.

 

I incorporate many CM methods in our homeschool, but found Queen a little too light for my taste. I know that many are pleased with it, but for me it was not enough. I would look at Ambleside Online for guidance if it's the CM method you desire.

 

If I had to do it all over again (and I will with my 2yo ;)), I would stick with something like BJUP or the WWE/FLL combo. My 8yo has done very well with FLL and WWE and I don't plan to change. It incorporates many of the CM ideas I love, but has all the searching and thinking out done for me. As far as upper grammar, my 11yo has done very well with IEW and I don't plan to change it either. I do, however, sometimes wish I would have stuck it out with BJU, but became aware of CM during that year and "fell off the traditional wagon" so-to-speak. :tongue_smilie:

 

My 2 cents,

Edited March 26, 2009 by angela&4boys

[HollyDay]

I'll bite on this one too because I have used both.

 

BJU is excellent for a standard textbook type. I compared it with others of its type (abeka, r/s, etc) and preferred BJU due to content and style. The grammar portion is very good, but the writing portion really left us cold. Dd truly hated BJU writing component and I didnt much care for it either. It tends to "beat to death" various aspects of writing. Okay, that was us. Others like BJU style of writing instruction because it is repetitive and tedious. Also, I questioned the value of some of the topics. Did my 2nd grader really need to know how to write a business letter? THere is much repetition in the grammar units. A lesson is typically 2 pages - one with you, one on their own. There are probably 10 or more examples of the concept to do together and more to do independently. Retention was excellent for us.

 

Language Lessons are very gentle. There is not much repetition. The writing assignments tend to be picture studies with very little formal instruction in writing. I would not use LL as my writing curriculum. Now, I have only used LL for the Elementary Child and LL for the Secondary Child. The other books might offer more writing instruction, I cant address that. There is a fair amount of copywork in LL that can get a bit tedious after a while. The dc might have 5 or more lessons solely devoted to copywork. The poetry and quotation copywork I found very helpful. I thought others were more like busywork. The lessons are very short and you could easily do 2, 3 or more a day. There examples are often thought provoking, which is good, because there are so few of them. I have not seen any diagramming or parsing.

 

We did LL elementary child vol 2 along with GWG 4 this year for my 4th grader. It was plenty. I skipped a fair number of GWG lessons as they were very repetitive and review of skills dd already knew. In fact, that is why I added LL in the first place - to give dd more challenge. I would do GWG lessons on the days dd had copywork in LL. It is ending up very smoothly this year. She will finish both books about the same time without feeling like she is doing double. I plan on LL Secondary Child vol 1 for her next year in 5th grade. I will supplement with Winston Basic as I already have that program left over from older sister.

 

We did LL for secondary child vol 1 along with Winston Advanced and Jump In for my 7th grader. She completed Winston Advanced by Christmas. I wanted something else to keep the concepts fresh. LL fit that bill nicely. She enjoyed it and learned a fair amount. Again, LL makes you think and look at things differently than standard worktexts. All the writing in LL was creative picture studies - so Jump In was a nice fit to teach the other genres. I plan on LL for the Secondary Child vol 2 for 8th grade next year. Right now, I am planning on supplementing with Weaver's High Way to English Grammar. I like what little I have seen of that curriculum, but I need to actually get it in hand and take a closer look.

 

BJU is a great well rounded program. LL you might need to supplement with something else. I have also added resources for punctuation (Punctuation Power, et al) since I find that has gotten lost in the mix somewhere along the line. HTH!!

[...................]

I am glad to go with BJU then, and maybe I can use LL over the summer or something.

 

I definitely don't want to spend tons of time supplementing, and my son needs lots of repetition, so I don't think the LL alone would work for grammar for us.

 

This was very helpful thanks.

 

And I'm excited about the BJU. I might skip the business letter though. :D

[Guest aquiverfull]

I've also used both. In my opinion they are apples and oranges..lol.

BJU will be much more. We did BJU in 2nd and 3rd grade. We liked it, I made the switch because it didn't seem like my dd was retaining the parts of speech etc. She could do well on all the lessons but when it came to the test, she couldn't remember much. The main reason we decided to try Queen's was because we were trying to embrace a more CM approach. I have found that a CM approach is not really what I want. Queen's Language Lessons for the Elementary Child has been much too easy for my 4th grader. I chose that specific one, because that is what Sandi Queen suggested to me. We have not supplemented, although I feel we should be. Often we do multiple lessons at a time. One thing I have appreciated is the copywork but I could have just bought some of the Queen's copywork books to get that.

 

This is all just my opinion. If you want at CM approach you will probably be happier with Queen's as you may feel that BJU is too much, or busywork, etc. Also you will not find any writing instruction in Queen's. BJU is very specific about the writing steps, etc. In the LLFEC workbook, it will have a picture study and then the next lesson will be writing about the picture. It will just say something like, " Write a story about what the bunnies are doing in the picture.", etc. I don't have a teacher's manual for Queens. I'm not sure if they have one or not, so maybe that's why I'm not seeing any writing instruction?

 

I also wanted to add that I agree with Hollyday on the writing in BJU, we felt exactly the same way. We despised the writing instruction because to us it did feel "beat to death". This might not be exactly how it is, since I'm just going from memory but it's basically like this...You right out a first draft, the next day you correct spelling and rewrite, then the next day you correct grammar, add in things and then rewrite. Finally you publish a final draft. To us it felt like overkill.

Edited March 30, 2009 by aquiverfull

[Melissa in CA]

I like BJU and I have used several different grammar programs over the years. BJU is what I plan to continue with. We don't do all of the writing lessons because I have other things I like/use for writing instruction. I use what I like, and skip the rest. I do not skip any of the grammar though.

 

BJU's grammar builds upon itself yearly. Each year your child will cover the same topics, but at a deeper level each year, so it is advisable to stick with BJU for the long haul for the best retention. My 6th grader has been using it since 4th grade and does well with it. He seems to be retaining it very well.

 

I started my older boys with BJUs 9th grade English when one was in 9th and the other in 11th (oldest has some LDs). They BOMBED IT! Over the years, they had previously used a variety of programs: Abeka, Winston Grammar, Rod & Staff, SL, and had completed the entire Easy Grammar (red book) the year prior to BJU. BJUs English was extremely difficult for them! They did NOT have a good foundation in English Grammar. I don't foresee my youngest having those same difficulties because he is basically growing up with BJUs grammar. As it gets harder and harder he is able to keep up because of the reteaching and consistency year after year.

 

My advice. Pick something for the long haul and stick with it...that will make all the difference in the world. If you like BJU this year, but dislike some of the writing assignments...don't do all the writing assignments! ;) If you think your child is not retaining the grammar, use some of the extra worksheets BJU gives you in the TE's CD-Rom and know that your child will have each and every year of BJU's English to cement in that troublesome concept. They will get it eventually. :D Also, be SURE you are TEACHING BJU! It is not a program made for independent learning, it is made to be taught. If you are just handing your child the worktext and expecting them to learn from it without your teaching from the TE, you will do your child a disservice. Be sure to get the TE. Be sure to use it. ;) I don't know what is different about the TE from Christian Liberty and the one from BJU, but I personally would want the one from BJU. Their newest editions are very user friendly and the extra pages included in the CD-Rom are great for any extra practice needed.

 

I honestly don't think you can go wrong with BJU's English (or Abeka, or R&S, or...). But I do think you can go wrong if you change programs year after year like I did. Learn from my mistakes...don't do that. :D Pick one and stick with it. In the end you'll be glad that you did.

[Catwoman]

My advice. Pick something for the long haul and stick with it...that will make all the difference in the world. If you like BJU this year, but dislike some of the writing assignments...don't do all the writing assignments! ;) If you think your child is not retaining the grammar, use some of the extra worksheets BJU gives you in the TE's CD-Rom and know that your child will have each and every year of BJU's English to cement in that troublesome concept. They will get it eventually. :D Also, be SURE you are TEACHING BJU! It is not a program made for independent learning, it is made to be taught. If you are just handing your child the worktext and expecting them to learn from it without your teaching from the TE, you will do your child a disservice. Be sure to get the TE. Be sure to use it. ;)

 

I agree completely!

 

Cat

[Caroline4kids]

I emailed the Queen's about LA for my new 6th grader and basically it is asssumed that a child is also writing in other areas on a daily basis in addition to the LL.

 

If you are an avid CMer then oral narration is taking a great deal of your compostion time. Daily dictation taken from readers also encourages correct grammar. With years of practice a child should be able to narrate and then write a complete summary of whatever they have just read. I believe that the Queen's Lessons cover the formal essay in the second HS level book that is coming out in the near future.

 

 

I believe that Secondary 2 covers grammar more thoroughly, but I could be wrong about that. CM tends to delay grammar or gradually stretch a typical text over a much longer period of time. Correct grammar is practiced during oral and written narrations.

 

I am sticking with Queen's for the duration. I may add in Analytical Grammar for a season or two, but for the most part I adore the gentle nature of the Queen's books.

Edited March 30, 2009 by Caroline4kids

[Guest aquiverfull]

I honestly don't think you can go wrong with BJU's English (or Abeka, or R&S, or...). But I do think you can go wrong if you change programs year after year like I did. Learn from my mistakes...don't do that. :D Pick one and stick with it. In the end you'll be glad that you did.

 

Melissa's advice is very wise. I wish I hadn't done so much jumping around, and still don't know what I want to use for grammar/writing. :tongue_smilie:

[...................]

Your advice was very helpful, and I plan to listen to it. I'm learning that consistency is so important.

 

I am going to be using CLASS next year (big gasp, but it's a long story don't ask) and so I will have CLP's manual, not BJU's. But I will have extra money to buy BJU's. How will I know if it's worth it?? I guess I can look at samples online if necessary...

 

Thanks Quiverful too..and all others. It's so nice to get pointed information and advice.

[Donna A.]

Your advice was very helpful, and I plan to listen to it. I'm learning that consistency is so important.

 

I am going to be using CLASS next year (big gasp, but it's a long story don't ask) and so I will have CLP's manual, not BJU's. But I will have extra money to buy BJU's. How will I know if it's worth it?? I guess I can look at samples online if necessary...

 

Thanks Quiverful too..and all others. It's so nice to get pointed information and advice.

 

I wouldn't spend the money on the BJU manual until after you get the stuff from CLP... you may find that you don't need it. I know there are several gals on HSR who've been pleased with the TM from CLP all by itself. ;)

[Melissa in CA]

I used CLASS when I began homeschooling...many, many moons ago! My oldest was in K...and now he's 20 yrs old. Yikes...feeling quite old today! :lol:

CLASS was great for me, I used it for about three years. It helped me get my feet wet in homeschooling, provided the testing and accountability I felt I needed, etc. They did not offer BJU or any type of BJU TM then, so I cannot say what the difference is. I would say that as long as it gives you teaching prompts, suggestions, and examples, it'll be fine. If you find you need extra practice pages though, and CLP doesn't provide them, you may need to purchase BJU's toolkit CD-ROM. ;)

 

Happy schooling! :D