Another Logic question

[Amy in CO]

I know there have been alot of logic questions lately, but I would like to add another one.

 

My daughter, 8th grade, just isn't getting logic. She did alright with the warmup, Mind Benders. But we tried Critical Thinking next. She just didn't get it. So I took a short break, letting her mature a bit, then tried again.

 

I just don't know what to do with her. At this age would it be tooo late to try some of the other suggestions. Should we just move to Intoductory Logic? I don't know. I am just lost.

Amy

[Jean in Wisc]

I know there have been alot of logic questions lately, but I would like to add another one.

 

My daughter, 8th grade, just isn't getting logic. She did alright with the warmup, Mind Benders. But we tried Critical Thinking next. She just didn't get it. So I took a short break, letting her mature a bit, then tried again.

 

I just don't know what to do with her. At this age would it be tooo late to try some of the other suggestions. Should we just move to Intoductory Logic? I don't know. I am just lost.

Amy

 

I'd skip Critical Thinking. Really.

 

I've never gotten too excited over Introductory Logic--have it; didn't use it.

 

I wait until 9th grade to do Traditional Logic--my kids have always been 15 or 16 years old, and they have never struggled with the class. It looks nice on their high school transcript. :D

 

TWTM pushes students to do more at a younger age. I'm all for this when the student is able to do it--why make them spin their wheels on simple material if they could be doing more? On the other hand, waiting for them to be ready is a must-do. If they can do algebra in 7th grade, fine. If they must wait until 10th grade, that is fine, too. Logic is the same. Do it when they are ready.

 

HTH,

Jean

[FloridaLisa]

What about using Thinking Toolbox and The Fallacy Detective this year? They would be perfect for 8th grade and make a great pre-logic but getting-those-skills-going study.

 

HTH,

Lisa

[Amy in CO]

Thanks for the suggestions. Do you use Thinking Toolbox first or is Fallacy Detective first, or does it not matter?

[Jackie in NE]

Amy,

 

I think we used "The Fallacy Detective" 1st. Fun book. I just wanted to post that with respect to when to start with Traditional Logic, I think it's important to consider how far you want your student to get with the logic sequence. I hope that my oldest dd will get all the way through Rhetoric II. She kind of blew off logic this year (8th grade), and now I wish I would have pushed her a little harder. I think we might have to do some summer school (which I hate) to keep on track.

 

Just my .02

[Gwen in VA]

I would definitely do an informal approach to logic before I did the formal one. The Fallacy Detective is a great fun book to work through. I highly recommend it.

 

Another book that is similar but takes a slightly more "academic" approach is Art of Argument. It is more workbook-ish than The Fallacy Detective but is also at a slightly more advanced level.

 

My youngest worked through TFD, but I have a feeling that she is not ready for formal logic, so we are spending the rest of this year doing informal logic again with The Art of Argument.

 

We didn't like The Thinking Toolbox. I did it with my third child but won't use it again. We even gave away both copies so we don't even have it in the house! We found it dry and difficult to use.

[mcconnellboys]

I plan on doing informal logic with my sixth grader next year, before beginning formal logic. I find Introductory Logic simpler to use with a younger child than Traditional Logic I. If you'll do a search for logic, I believe you'll find several discussions over the course of the past year that support this.

[FloridaLisa]

Thanks for the suggestions. Do you use Thinking Toolbox first or is Fallacy Detective first, or does it not matter?

 

My olders used FD first because it was the only one published at the time. My 7th grader read through TT this year and will do FD next year, which seems to be a more logical progression. Neither is dependent on the other, so you could use FD without doing TT and vice versa.

 

HTH,

Lisa

[Lori D.]

Agreeing with the others about trying an informal logic -- and Fallacy Detective is very engaging and informative, and geared right for that age. Another suggestion is to go through the "Orbiting With Logic" book from Dandylion publishers. It's a series of fun logic puzzles and pages that introduces some very basic logic terms and puts them to use in more fun puzzle-like setting. In fact, I'd even suggest doing the book that goes before it first for gentle, fun exposure into the types of logic puzzles: "Logic Liftoff".

 

See them at: http://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?sid=1236561464-1839992&subject=12&category=3446

 

 

PS -- I am probably in the minority, and maybe this is just our experience, but... I just don't see very many students really having reached the brain development/maturity level to be doing a full, traditional, structured Logic course in grade 8 -- and not many more are ready in grade 9! Our boys are doing DH's old college Logic textbook with him, and they are ages 15 and almost 17, and the younger one definitely hasn't "clicked" quite as much with those logic portions of the brain yet in the way older brother has.

 

I'm all for Logic programs -- but I personally think that later is better than earlier -- the student doesn't struggle as much, and gets more *benefit* from it by waiting. But that's just my opinion! :D BEST of luck in choosing your Logic journey! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Amy in CO]

Thank you everyone. I think I will try Fallacy Detective, and the Orbiting with Logic book looks great too.

 

I am definitely beginning to see that my daughter just isn't ready for the more formal logic. I guess I was just afraid of "hurting" her if I didn't get it in soon enough. But it is better to wait a few years, than to push it and never understand it at all.

 

Thanks again everyone.