What to do?

[Kissy]

I have a million different posts about grammar..I am going back and forth with ideas..My son is not on the same level within language arts. He reads well as far as comprehension well above his grade level (enought to be eligible for application into the CTY programs but we can't afford it). His vocabulary is very well too. His grammar is pretty good, he retains everything I teach..but his writing really lacks. I feel like it is my fault because he so good in different areas that maybe I am not teaching it well. Since he hates writing we are using Wordsmith apprentice and he loves it. He loves the concept of journalism. Anyway, I was going to use Analytical grammar next year because I thought diagramming sentences would help him to learn grammar a little better and through that his writing would also improve. I thought analytical grammar is bit too much as far as money so I looked at Easy Grammar and thought it would be a good fit. Then someone told me it was very repetitive..He is not good with repetitive, he gets very bored and then starts to act out..So I thought I would try MCT Grammar Voyage. I thought since it uses reading as in a story format to understand grammar better it might work to his advantage in that way and we could use the practice voyage the rest of the year to drill it in but not be totally repetitive. After looking at that I thought it might work good to add the writing in too for the same reason. Here is my dilemma, I think he would need to read the paragraph town book before he can do the essay voyage. Looking at the information on the samples it seems to have some very good info. So would it be overkill for him to do both next year? Something like doing grammar voyage first quarter, then starting paragraph town for quarters 2 (and if needed until mastery) then after that is down to continue on with essay voyage. I am not sure he will need to spend the whole year on paragraph town but I would be flexible if he did. Does anyone here have a child that is not gifted in all areas but rather uneven in a few things? Is this how you get them to catch up? Sorry this got so long but I have no one to talk to about this, that truly gets it. I hope some of you do.

[Nan in Mass]

How old is he?

[Kissy]

He is 10 getting ready to be 11 very soon and this year he is in 5th grade. I think I have decided (as in I already bought MCT grammar voyage and I will start with paragraph town because I want him to have a stronger foundation in paragraphs) to go with MCT. I think when I wrote this I was frustrated. My son is suffering from underachievement and we are trying our best to correct it. I have been to counselors although we have none that specialize in this area for that. Now I am reading a book called Bright kids, poor grades and it is really helping me to understand the issues. All this is just so frustrating to go through with him.

[Wildiris]

What kind of writing do want him to do?

 

I am always recommending this book The 6+1 Traits of Writing. what I like about this book are the samples. I use the samples as a way of getting the student to read, hear and see the difference between mediocre writing and good writing by kids just like them. I've found this to be effective. Most of the time we all read very polished, edited pieces of writing, but to see an unedited version instills the possibility that writing can evolve into something better.

 

I also have, and you can look them upon amazon, Unjournaling and The power of three in writing, Thinking in Threes.

[Matryoshka]

Heck, did you read my post farther down on MCT, because I feel like I just asked all the same questions. I have two 10yos in 5th. We're using Easy Grammar 6 this year (and I think it may be repetetive year to year, but it doesn't seem to be within the year - we're liking it), but I was looking at what to do next for writing, and also came upon MCT.

 

I felt exactly like you - according to the grades on the books they should be in Voyage but I really feel like they should do Paragraph Town first - then I looked at the poetry and vocabulary books, and really felt like they could use the foundation from those before the Voyage level too. So I just went and bought the whole Town level.

 

My kids are actually very strong in grammar, but in writing they've been doing a ps curriculum (in a class with my ex-ps-teacher mom), and it covered a lot about ideas to write about but not a lot of structure. And the only poetry we've done is recitation and memorization - nothing on structure there either (which Building Poems seems to be strong on). For vocab we've been using Word Roots, but wow, Caesar's English is so much richer!

 

I'm kind of figuring maybe we'll go through the Town level a little more quickly than normal. Or if we don't, I'm not going to sweat it. The first Magic Lens level says for grades 6, 7, 8, or 9, so if we end up getting to Voyage in 7th instead of 6th, that still gets us to Advanced Academic Writing in 8th, which is fine.

[JennW in SoCal]

Have you read these articles by SWB? They are on the main Well Trained Mind site (in the section titled "site resources") and explain her philosophy about teaching writing.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/elementary.php

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/copywork.php

 

I'm about to graduate a son who did very little writing before he was 12 years old. We did most of our work orally, and I didn't push the writing because he has some learning challenges and ADHD. I mention this because he sometimes seemed to me like an "underachiever", a word you used to describe your ds. Lots of bright kids develop unevenly so that, for instance, their reading and comprehension far outstrip their writing. It isn't that they are underachievers, they just develop or think or process differently than we'd like them to. Standard curricula doesn't always work with kids like these.

 

When we did start getting serious with writing, I followed SWB's suggestions. At first, we ONLY did dictations and narrations, even at age 12. In high school we worked up to essays and research papers and other practical writing as the need arose (casual and formal letters). And you know what? He writes really well.

 

The best part of using the dictation and narration approach is that it integrates writing into any and every subject. It isn't a separate subject we have to make time for each day -- it is naturally a part of every subject.

 

We never did any formal grammar programs. This wasn't by design, I just never found the right one and any that I tried he would breeze through without any problem. I've always used the editing process as a tool for working on structure or for fixing spelling, punctuation and grammar errors. He scores high on the language arts sections of standardized tests, though.

 

Another thing that helped him was to let him type every written assignment. His typing can keep up with his thoughts much better than his handwriting can.

 

I realize my advice isn't at all what you were asking for, but perhaps something in there will be helpful.

[Colleen in SEVA]

As for MCT levels...

 

He explained in a workshop I attended that the grade levels he lists are the gifted classes he hand in mind when writing the program, but that it should be used at whatever level best fits each situation. So, Essay Voyage was written with a class full of gifted 5 & 6th graders in mind.

 

I went page by page through Grammar Town and Grammar Voyage this morning (RFWP had an exhibit at a conference nearby), and I think it would be harder to jump into the Voyage level without the exposure to the Town level.

 

The books in the second tier (after the Voyage level) are easily high school level work.

 

I think your plan to do Town before Voyage is good, but don't set out to get through one quickly -- there is quite a lot of material covered. If I recall correctly, there are 20 Paragraph Labs in the teacher's section, and each one could be spread over a few days.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Colleen in SEVA

[SunshineMom]

I have been thinking alot about grammer these days. Next year I will have a 1st/2nd grader. They have done a little dictation with science, a couple of sentences each week, written out poems memorized and on their own they have copied beginner reader books. I read the tagged links above and like the idea of doing copywork from Charlotte's Web but I do not think they are up for dictation. So my question, how much copywork (sentences) and how often? Would it be better to have them copy from the blackboard famous quotes? Or is this too limiting? I have left writing for them to explore. They write little notes to me and lists of holiday gifts. I know that they will need to write more as they get older however I am a little concerned that the "fun" will be left out. Ideas?