Questions about reading levels/upper grades

[Country Girl]

In a recent post someone was asking about on-line reading assessments and it got me curious about my ds. I did a reading assessment with him a couple of years ago and he was reading well above grade level so I never thought much more about it. He really seems like he can read about anything but as quickly went through some of the assessments that were linked I see words that are in the upper levels (8 grade to college levels) that he probably would get tripped up on but then there are also many that he could read in these levels. My initial thought is that it seems to me this is more a case of not being familiar with the words rather than actually being able to read them. I'm not sure if I'm making sense..... but I guess I'm wondering if once a kid can read at a 6-8 grade level, is the only thing you do to advance the reading level is to keep reading and exposure to more advanced vocab? This was always my thought but I don't want to be dropping the ball on something so I thought I'd ask if there was something you do to get your kids from that middle school reading level to an adult/college level.

 

Thanks!

[cougarmom4]

I would love to hear what others have to say about this. I also have an advanced reader. I am actually just bringing him home to homeschool starting this coming week! Over the past few months as I've been trying to decide on curriculum & such, I've thought a lot about exactly what you posted about. Once they are fluent readers, what objectives do you focus on?

[ElizabethB]

Webster's Speller!

 

My daughter was reading at a 4th to 5th grade level before using it, is now reading at perhaps the 12th grade level, the only words that trip her up are really crazy things like chemical ingredients in junk food. She can sound out most 3, 4, and 5 syllable words now. My Mom was skeptical about the whole homeschooling thing but now likes to brag that her granddaughter can read "War and Peace." (She actually can't, she gets bored after 2 sentences. I can't blame her, I lasted a bit longer but not much! She can read out of the ESV or NIV for sustained periods, however. She can also read out of the KJV, but, like my husband, claims it is not in English and prefers a more modern translation.)

 

M.K. Henry's Words is also good for upper level teaching, but the accent patterns in Webster are especially useful for a younger student or an ESL student to help them catch on to how to sound out long words they have not seen before.

 

A 5th grader I taught recently improved 4 grade levels after working through my phonics lessons and about half of Webster's Speller, we also did a few pages out of Henry's Words. He was reading at the 4th grade level before testing, but needed a bit more phonics work. We did not have time to finish up Webster's Speller before the class was done, but we sent a copy home for him to work on with his Mom.

[Lori D.]

Short answer

When a student is reading well/above level, then it's time to include literature as part of the schedule, for:

- exposure to good writing

- content

- and to begin analyzing/discussing the literature.

 

 

Long answer

Obviously, as parents we hope reading will always be an enjoyable pasttime in its own right with our children. We also want them to be able to use reading as a tool towards gaining information and instruction (knowledge); and we want them to be apply to apply it (wisdom). Academically, when a student is reading well/above grade level, it's probably time to begin moving into the next level of the trivium:

 

Grammar Level

1. The process of learning the skill of reading -- the "nuts and bolts" and the mechanics of actually learning how to read, to practice the skill of reading, and to become fluent in reading.

 

2. Exposure to a variety of types of writing through hearing works read aloud by another, and through independent reading. Grammar level reading and listening to aloud reading leads to accumulating an internal library of myth and story patterns, grammar (written language patterns), vocabulary, etc.

 

 

Logic Level

1. Reading for content and for learning -- to take in instruction and information in all the other subject areas (math, history, science, etc.). Logic level reading is a tool used to gain more depth, to research, to begin to question and analyze and find the "why" behind the other subjects. (Examples: why did this war in history happen? what was the consequence of that historical leader's policy? what happens when these chemical elements in science are mixed, and why? how is this art movement a reaction to that art movement -- and how do both reflect the political-social movements of their times? etc.)

 

2. Continuing #2 from Grammar Level above. Plus: Specifically, reading connected to the subject of literature, is about exposure to literary elements (metaphor, similie, theme, setting, hyperbole, etc.) and sound elements (rhythm, rhyme, alliteration, etc.) to begin to develop a way of thinking about and discussing literature. (The asking/answering those logic level type of questions, such as: why did that happen; how is this connected to that; what will be future consequences; etc.).

 

 

Rhetoric Level

1. Continuing to read for content, instruction, etc. -- with a move towards "rhetoric", the ability to use the knowledge gained through reading in the art of writing and speaking persuasively.

 

2. Continuing #2 from Grammar and Logic Levels above. Plus: Focus on the Great Books -- enter the "Great Conversation of Literature" by reading/thinking about/analyzing/discussing literature. It's about being exposed to a wide variety of cultures, times, and ideas; seeing connections to the real world; making applications to your own life; and sharing your insights with others.

 

 

How to go about moving to the next level?

- book/program on how to read/discuss (Heart of Dakota; Deconstructing Penguins; Teaching the Classics; How to Read Like A Professor)

- literary analysis resources (Story Elements; Figuratively Speaking; etc.)

- read/discuss together, using lit. guides (Progeny Press; Garlic Press publishers; Glencoe free online guides; etc.; The Great Books)

- literature program (Christian Light Education; Lightning Literature; Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings; etc.)

 

 

Enjoy your reading journey as a family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Lori D.
added info

[cougarmom4]

Thank you for such a helpful reply, Lori D. It helps me feel like I'm on the right track here. As I mentioned, I am just starting homeschooling my ds11, so I've been trying to figure out what my goals are & find ways to accomplish them.

 

For the first little while, I think we are just going to have fun reading classics--letting him choose from a list of ones I think he's ready for/think he needs to read. Someone here recently posted a link with various online sources for literature guides, so my plan was to use those to help in our discussions of the books...to help me find points to bring out and discover more than just reading comprehension.

 

I did order Figuratively Speaking and another book, Teaching Literary Elements, hoping they would provide me with some direction to take this from here. As I haven't yet seen Figuratively Speaking I was glad to hear you recommend it! (Waiting for all of these books to arrive is driving me crazy! I just can't wait to dig into them & get going!) I'm going to look into some of your suggestions for how to read/discuss--

 

Thanks for the advice!

[Lori D.]

Welcome aboard, Cougarmom! : )

 

Also, check out the great questions to get you started discussing literature, listed on this website as part of the workshops and handouts page, under academic excellence for grades 5-8:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/susan5-8.html

 

(Scroll down about halfway down the page to the heading of: "IV. LANGUAGE ARTS: READING, WRITING AND GRAMMAR" and the subheading of: "A. READING")

 

Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Country Girl]

Webster's Speller!

 

My daughter was reading at a 4th to 5th grade level before using it, is now reading at perhaps the 12th grade level, the only words that trip her up are really crazy things like chemical ingredients in junk food. She can sound out most 3, 4, and 5 syllable words now. My Mom was skeptical about the whole homeschooling thing but now likes to brag that her granddaughter can read "War and Peace." (She actually can't, she gets bored after 2 sentences. I can't blame her, I lasted a bit longer but not much! She can read out of the ESV or NIV for sustained periods, however. She can also read out of the KJV, but, like my husband, claims it is not in English and prefers a more modern translation.)

 

M.K. Henry's Words is also good for upper level teaching, but the accent patterns in Webster are especially useful for a younger student or an ESL student to help them catch on to how to sound out long words they have not seen before.

 

A 5th grader I taught recently improved 4 grade levels after working through my phonics lessons and about half of Webster's Speller, we also did a few pages out of Henry's Words. He was reading at the 4th grade level before testing, but needed a bit more phonics work. We did not have time to finish up Webster's Speller before the class was done, but we sent a copy home for him to work on with his Mom.

 

Elizabeth,

 

Thanks for these links. I've only had a chance to quickly scan through them but I am saving this thread so I can go back and spend some time really reading through them. My son really does read well (like your dd, he can read the NIV, KJV, college science books, etc.) so I'm thinking a lot of it is really just exposure to new words. I'm thinking the Webster list might be a good way to easily expose him to words he normally doesn't encounter. Do you just have your child read through the words?

 

Thanks!

[Country Girl]

Lori,

 

Thank you for the long and short answer;). I really love to read but don't have much background in "literature". You have given me some good insight on how to advance my son in this area and make sure that he is getting the most out of the things he reads. I have Teaching the Classics, and really like it. I know I'm not using it to its full potential but I think that is partly because my ds is still pretty young. However, when I look at it and all that is included, I feel a little bit of pressure that I should be doing more. However, I have to remember where my son is at and use it for him, not the way I'd use it for an older child. Also, thanks for the link to literature questions from SWB. I don't know how I missed those before but they are great.

[Lovedtodeath]

Webster's Speller!

 

All right! I am looking at it already!!:auto:

[Lori D.]

... the great thing about moving into the next level of reading/thinking about/analyzing/discussing/writing about literature -- is that you'll grow right along with your children as you do it with them!

 

I know that is a *huge* time commitment, but I just can't emphasize enough just *how much* we get out of doing some of the Great Books together -- the conversations it sparks are some of the best times we've ever had with our sons -- opportunities to reaffirm our faith; to express family values; to discuss hard social issues; to really hear their hearts and thoughts; to have them see we both trust them and value them as people and truly want to hear their opinions; to work out tough issues together; to make connections with history, art, film, TV shows, science, culture, etc.... It's been an awesome privilege!

 

Caveat: Of course that doesn't happen everyday -- lol! But, just putting in a little labor/weeding/water each day in your garden suddenly one day yields fantastic blooms, and a day or a week later some wonderful produce, the same holds with the literature. Spend a little time several times a week, and you'll have those wonderful moments, too! : )

 

Enjoy your own reading/literature/Great Books journey with your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[ElizabethB]

Elizabeth,

 

Thanks for these links. I've only had a chance to quickly scan through them but I am saving this thread so I can go back and spend some time really reading through them. My son really does read well (like your dd, he can read the NIV, KJV, college science books, etc.) so I'm thinking a lot of it is really just exposure to new words. I'm thinking the Webster list might be a good way to easily expose him to words he normally doesn't encounter. Do you just have your child read through the words?

 

Thanks!

 

Yes, she mainly just reads through the words at the 2+ syllable level, although I'll have her try to spell a few of the easier words with help. She had to spell all of the syllables and most of the 1 syllable words.