Extreme Defiance in gifted kids

[babygemma]

Has anyone experienced extreme defiance (mainly verbally) with your

children at home? My son is almost 7 and it seems he just becomes more

defiant and smart-mouthed as he ages. It seems he is unwilling to

accept mistakes, has a very high sense of pride, and is unwilling to

accept that his parents have the ultimate say in things.

 

What sort of support system have you found in dealing with this

because it seems nothing works in our household. We try not to raise

our voices (although that's very difficult) and meet him with calmness

but that doesn't seem to work very well either.

 

Thanks.

[lionfamily1999]

I finally had Andrew write the definition of contradict, three times. Since then, when he decides he knows more than I do, he has to look up the answer himself, and write it down. It's all I could think to do. See my sig, Andrew, arguer of semantics.

[Heather in Neverland]

:banghead:

 

I am fond of saying that I don't know why they call it "gifted" when it doesn't feel like much of a "present". And I personally believe that gifted is the technical term for sassy-mouthed-thinks-he-is-an-adult-know-it-all. :D

 

Seriously though, my ds has the compassion and empathy and mercy and sensitivity that most ADULTS can't compare with BUT if you are one of those parents who wants immediate obedience the first time you ask...look elsewhere.

 

I don't know that I would call him "defiant" necessarily but he definitely wants a reason for everything and "Because I told you so" doesn't work so well. I often have to remind him who is the adult and who is the child. And I call him "Monty Hall" because it seems like we play "Let's make a deal" all the time:

 

me- I want you to do these 25 math problems

him- that's too many! how about 15?

me-no 25.

him-how about I do 15 and get them all correct and then I can stop?

 

Here is my favorite from his early years. The kid would not sleep in his own bed and we tried everything! He was about 4yo and I told him he would HAVE to sleep in his own bed now and he said "Mom, I don't think that is fair. You have Daddy to keep you company at night and you are an adult. I am just a kid and I have to sleep alone? If anyone should have to sleep alone it should be adults, not kids!"

 

My response? "Hop in" I can't argue with that logic.:D

 

So is he "defiant"? Sometimes. Does he question pretty much everything I say? You betcha.

[Pamela H in Texas]

JMO, but I think parents of gifted children often make the mistake of making excuses for them. My sil was THE world's worst when her son was your son's age and it drove me batty. A kid can behave bratty regardless of intelligence. And a kid can learn to behave well regardless of intelligence! Of course, ALL children have their own personalities. I was naturally an easier child and my brother was naturally tougher. My daughter is THE easiest child on earth (though highly gifted, btw) and my son was much more challenging (and twice exceptional).

 

For me, it was important to not make excuses for my son's issues. He may have had more obstacles but I still had only the same 16-21 years everyone has in order to help him become a happy, healthy contributing member of family and community.

 

I tend to think longer term, but by doing so, I've also managed to nip things in the bud, so to speak.

 

The very first thing I tell other parents is to teach their kids when and how to "argue" appropriately. It is NOT okay to be defiant and mouthy. Usually, if something is out of control, it's best to go to the basics first. "I will entertain respectful discussion AFTER you comply." So he takes the trash out to the outside garbage can and THEN says, "mom, next time may I finish reading the chapter?" Now ideally, I would have offered that as a choice in the first place but I'm not perfect so I tell him he has a good point. Next time, I say, "when you get to the next chapter, please take out the garbage." After he has down "comply then broach subject," you can allow him to appeal before compliance if done appropriately. This takes time for a child to learn. One way some families find works with more challenging kids is to have them ASK to state their case. That way, mom can simply give them the chance only if its appropriate right then.

 

I mentioned my brother above. He's really worked at, even recently, learning how to do this appropriately in a group setting, including work. It took a little time and effort. He decided to start with his 6yo, having her ask to state her case, realizing it may take awhile for her to learn when it's okay and when it's not (which will never be learned 100% btw). But we came from a "when I say jump" home and didn't want to raise our kids THAT way, but didn't want mouthy defiant children either.

 

So that is the when. The how may take a little coaching. Asking questions is a great way to start. "Mom, may I take out the trash after I finish the chapter next time?" sounds extremely polite. In time, they'll learn to do more advanced arguments. One way to teach that is using the methods in the book Raising a Thinking Child by Myrna Shure. It gets them thinking of their options and the consequences so they can make better choices. However, a side effect is that they can handle more reasoning type discussions also. This can sound scary when the kiddo hasn't yet learned when to discuss things, but they won't be using these advanced arguments until they've gotten the when at least mostly down.

 

This just sets up a natural authority in the home. No need to holler, "I am your mother, Mister!" No need to prove, "I'm the parent." It just is naturally so.

 

Anyway, I hope this helps a little. Make sure you don't use giftedness as an excuse and teach kiddo to discuss things respectfully.

 

ETA: I also like Julie's looking things up. My ds sometimes argues things (like how many states there are in the U.S. Grrrrr) and I just tell him to find the answer. He'll chacha, google, whatever. Also, I have told my kids they can write out their proposal or do research (and a paper) on a topic; I'd be glad to read about it later. Sometimes that shuts them up and other times they feel strongly enough to go write it up. :) That gives ME time to ask the hive, talk to hubby and mother, look up my supporting thoughts, whatever about the topic too :)

Edited December 17, 2008 by 2J5M9K

[cin]

Mine is the same way. She is the drama queen, works us on semantics and uses absolutes...I NEVER get to do this. Or Mom ALWAYS makes me.... and of course, she knows everything. My heart goes out to her little sister, who just happens to be 'normal'. I just hope we both survive until she either changes her ways or leaves home.

 

ETA: I totally agree with Pamela. That is what we are trying to do. Unfortunately, there is alot of estrogen involved and it doens't always go as smoothly as I would like.

Edited December 17, 2008 by cin