BJU LA placement or other recommendations

[MidwestFam]

Hi all- I've been using Ambleside/CM methods for my 2nd & 5th graders up to this point and some of it has been great but it is not working for us for writing/grammar- we need a more structured approach.  My 5th grader has learning challenges (was considered dyslexic, although no longer meets the criteria, and ADHD) and has struggled with the informal writing we've done.  He is caught up with reading and what we are doing for spelling is working well.  We did MCT Grammar Island this year and he has a good grasp of the parts of speech.  We started MCT Sentence Island (the writing portion), but it basically just felt like a rehash of Grammar Island and didn't provide practical writing help/assignments.  Also, there are many grammar topics that MCT doesn't cover like punctuation.  We need something straight forward with logical, step-by-step instruction for the writing process.  Also, I'm realizing that my kids don't know things like how to use a dictionary, address a letter, etc- I'm tired of trying to piece things together and just want a traditional LA curriculum.  BJU appealed to me when I looked at it because it seems to adequately cover everything but isn't overkill.  My son really can't focus long so I have to be super efficient with his school time and he does catch on fast as long as things are taught well.  At this point, he has done almost no writing outside of copywork (including in other subjects).  Should I still start him at the 5th grade book or should we go back?  Or, is there another curriculum that anyone would recommend?  TIA!

[Green Bean]

BJU has so much review that you can confidently place him at grade level. Be aware the worktexts are not meant to stand alone! They are the practice from the teacher teaching the lesson. The program does not encourage memorizing which is one reason there is so much review each year. Not a thing wrong with that approach for a school that takes summers off. Kids have leaky heads. But it sure wastes an enormous amount of time to have to re-teach everything from scratch each year.

My experience has been with my 6 that if I want them to actually know something, I have to directly teach it and require they memorize it. I used FLL when mine were younger, and my kids KNOW those definitions now even years later. It pays off drilling daily, no matter how boring it seems at the time. Start at FLL 3.

https://welltrainedmind.com/c/subject/grammar/

R&S is another excellent option for gram/writ, if you can take the religiousness. But once again, it is not a hand it off to the kid and hope for the best. You need to teach it, review daily, etc..

https://www.milestonebooks.com/list/Building_Christian_English_Series/

Loyola Press has Voyages in English as an alternate to R&S. It is by far the most expensive TM because it is meant for a school. My understanding is you can skip it as it is mostly a huge answer key.

https://www.voyagesinenglish.com/grades-3-8-overview

One last is Jr Analytical Grammar. I have no experience with it, but it is a great option. Say it one more time with me, You need to teach it for the kids to get it. AG is for older kids. This only covers grammar, usage, and mechanics, though.

https://www.analyticalgrammar.com/our-products/junior-analytical-grammar/

We are liking The Good and The Beautiful for this short season. I would start at Level 4 for your guy. Nice, short lessons each day. Very bite sized writing. My easily overwhelmed autistic guy is doing so well with this now.

https://www.goodandbeautiful.com/pre-k-8-curriculum/language-arts/

Of course, ABeka is an option.

https://www.abeka.com/Search.aspx#stq=&roles=MAGENTOATHOME&subject=LANGGRAM&waysteach=SUBJECTKIT

ADDING:

You could do a Classical Academic Press mix of Well-Ordered Language and Writing & Rhetoric. Start both at the beginning.

https://classicalacademicpress.com/collections/well-ordered-language

https://classicalacademicpress.com/collections/writing-rhetoric

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Green Bean

[MidwestFam]

12 hours ago, Green Bean said:

BJU has so much review that you can confidently place him at grade level. Be aware the worktexts are not meant to stand alone! They are the practice from the teacher teaching the lesson. The program does not encourage memorizing which is one reason there is so much review each year. Not a thing wrong with that approach for a school that takes summers off. Kids have leaky heads. But it sure wastes an enormous amount of time to have to re-teach everything from scratch each year.

My experience has been with my 6 that if I want them to actually know something, I have to directly teach it and require they memorize it. I used FLL when mine were younger, and my kids KNOW those definitions now even years later. It pays off drilling daily, no matter how boring it seems at the time. Start at FLL 3.

https://welltrainedmind.com/c/subject/grammar/

R&S is another excellent option for gram/writ, if you can take the religiousness. But once again, it is not a hand it off to the kid and hope for the best. You need to teach it, review daily, etc..

https://www.milestonebooks.com/list/Building_Christian_English_Series/

Loyola Press has Voyages in English as an alternate to R&S. It is by far the most expensive TM because it is meant for a school. My understanding is you can skip it as it is mostly a huge answer key.

https://www.voyagesinenglish.com/grades-3-8-overview

One last is Jr Analytical Grammar. I have no experience with it, but it is a great option. Say it one more time with me, You need to teach it for the kids to get it. AG is for older kids. This only covers grammar, usage, and mechanics, though.

https://www.analyticalgrammar.com/our-products/junior-analytical-grammar/

We are liking The Good and The Beautiful for this short season. I would start at Level 4 for your guy. Nice, short lessons each day. Very bite sized writing. My easily overwhelmed autistic guy is doing so well with this now.

https://www.goodandbeautiful.com/pre-k-8-curriculum/language-arts/

Of course, ABeka is an option.

https://www.abeka.com/Search.aspx#stq=&roles=MAGENTOATHOME&subject=LANGGRAM&waysteach=SUBJECTKIT

ADDING:

You could do a Classical Academic Press mix of Well-Ordered Language and Writing & Rhetoric. Start both at the beginning.

https://classicalacademicpress.com/collections/well-ordered-language

https://classicalacademicpress.com/collections/writing-rhetoric

 

Thank you so much for the helpful reply!  If we go with BJU, I will definitely get the TM.  My son gets very frustrated when he feels like I don't "teach" the material to him.  He really liked how well MCT explained the concepts.  It's good to know I could start him at grade level.

Do you feel like The Good and The Beautiful is enough?  Since we only have a month left of this school year, I like the idea of being able to try something out for free right now.  Also, when I showed my son a sample of BJU, his first comment was "it looks cartoony."  I think he'd appreciate the aesthetic of G&B.  But I guess now whenever I see that something is "CM inspired" I worry that it will be fluffy.

I had considered R&S and ABeka, but thought BJU seemed like a better option.  Will check out your other suggestions.  Really appreciate the help!   

 

[Servant4Christ]

We've used R&S English grades 3-5 so far and love it. My Oldest is a reluctant writer but prefers this to the CLE that we used previously. I have learned so much, too, as the teacher. We go over the new material, do the oral exercises together, then I assign a couple at a time from the written practice section to see if he understands it. I've learned by only assigning a couple at a time and then immediately checking them before assigning a couple more, he doesn't get overwhelmed nor does he repeat mistakes because I catch them sooner. Writing assignments are regularly scheduled and are very well layed out. I've learned to modify them a bit by allowing my son to type his writing assignments so he can easily go back and edit his work in steps. You can call R&S directly and they will send you a sample book of any grade level 1-6 and you can view what a lesson looks like with your child to see if it's a good fit.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Servant4Christ

[Green Bean]

2 hours ago, MidwestFam said:

Thank you so much for the helpful reply!  If we go with BJU, I will definitely get the TM.  My son gets very frustrated when he feels like I don't "teach" the material to him.  He really liked how well MCT explained the concepts.  It's good to know I could start him at grade level.

Do you feel like The Good and The Beautiful is enough?  Since we only have a month left of this school year, I like the idea of being able to try something out for free right now.  Also, when I showed my son a sample of BJU, his first comment was "it looks cartoony."  I think he'd appreciate the aesthetic of G&B.  But I guess now whenever I see that something is "CM inspired" I worry that it will be fluffy.

I had considered R&S and ABeka, but thought BJU seemed like a better option.  Will check out your other suggestions.  Really appreciate the help!   

 

BJU is in the process of rewriting their English series. If you look at www.bjupress.com, their school site, you can see the newer editions. If you do go the BJU route, order from a HomeWorks consultant to get a discount.

TGTB is deceptively gentle but not fluffy. It is written to the student, though. seemesew is an awesome person to talk to about TGTB. Below is a thread I started about TGTB when I was deciding. Her comments are at the end. Her kids have done K to high school with TGTB. Yes, the stories are overly wholesome, but I use MP for that. For a month and free, see what your guy thinks.

And I think I mis-spoke about the Loyola Press TM. Thankfully, they have good samples for you to check it out. I was also told the practice wkbk isn’t necessary. Loyola’s Exercises in English is just the grammar part of Voyages, btw.

HTH!

Edited May 3, 2022 by Green Bean

[Servant4Christ]

Also, I just reread your initial post. I have looked into both BJU and Abeka many times over the years because they are so pretty and well made. I love the content of both, though I do favor the layout of the Abeka TMs. I'm sure both are top quality Christian programs that work for a lot of families, but not us. That much color is just too distracting for my boys. My Oldest once pointed out that I can dress it up any way I want and it will still be school, so there's that.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Servant4Christ

[Green Bean]

Servie- Oldest and my DD need to get together. She feels the same way about school.

[Servant4Christ]

9 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

Servie- Oldest and my DD need to get together. She feels the same way about school.

Oldest is only that way about skills subjects. He loves history, geography, science, and reading. I can't keep enough books in the house to quench his thirst for books!

[MidwestFam]

59 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

BJU is in the process of rewriting their English series. If you look at www.bjupress.com, their school site, you can see the newer editions. If you do go the BJU route, order from a HomeWorks consultant to get a discount.

TGTB is deceptively gentle but not fluffy. It is written to the student, though. seemesew is an awesome person to talk to about TGTB. Below is a thread I started about TGTB when I was deciding. Her comments are at the end. Her kids have done K to high school with TGTB. Yes, the stories are overly wholesome, but I use MP for that. For a month and free, see what your guy thinks.

And I think I mis-spoke about the Loyola Press TM. Thankfully, they have good samples for you to check it out. I was also told the practice wkbk isn’t necessary. Loyola’s Exercises in English is just the grammar part of Voyages, btw.

HTH!

I just gave both my boys the placement tests and they both tested at 3rd grade so I think we'll just do that this month.  If it seems too easy for my 5th grader, I can adjust.  And I should've clarified, it's fine if it teaches TO the student, my son just needs direct teaching of some kind.  Is MP Memoria Press?  So are you saying you do some additional books along with the program?  Because from what I'm understanding, you have to read TGTB books in order to do their curriculum?  In other words, they are integral to the lessons?  I checked out the other thread you linked and it was very reassuring! 

[MidwestFam]

1 hour ago, Servant4Christ said:

Also, I just reread your initial post. I have looked into both BJU and Abeka many times over the years because they are so pretty and well made. I love the content of both, though I do favor the layout of the Abeka TMs. I'm sure both are top quality Christian programs that work for a lot of families, but not us. That much color is just too distracting for my boys. My Oldest once pointed out that I can dress it up any way I want and it will still be school, so there's that.

I do think that any of these- R&S, BJU, Abeka- would work out fine in the end, especially for my 2nd grader who can roll with most things.  All of them would provide the structured, thorough teaching we are lacking.  Thanks for your responses! 

[Green Bean]

5 hours ago, MidwestFam said:

I just gave both my boys the placement tests and they both tested at 3rd grade so I think we'll just do that this month.  If it seems too easy for my 5th grader, I can adjust.  And I should've clarified, it's fine if it teaches TO the student, my son just needs direct teaching of some kind.  Is MP Memoria Press?  So are you saying you do some additional books along with the program?  Because from what I'm understanding, you have to read TGTB books in order to do their curriculum?  In other words, they are integral to the lessons?  I checked out the other thread you linked and it was very reassuring! 

The books listed in the kits are integral to the program. Their other book list is not. Have fun!

MP is Memoria Press. We love them. We use all their gravy subjects, but none of the skills subjects or Latin. Take what works, leave the rest.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Green Bean

[Green Bean]

5 hours ago, MidwestFam said:

I do think that any of these- R&S, BJU, Abeka- would work out fine in the end, especially for my 2nd grader who can roll with most things.  All of them would provide the structured, thorough teaching we are lacking.  Thanks for your responses! 

One other thought about BJU- the books change drastically from 7th on up. I’m guessing 6th is being redone to match. Anyway, just fyi.

[Ellie]

15 hours ago, MidwestFam said:

I had considered R&S and ABeka, but thought BJU seemed like a better option.  Will check out your other suggestions.  Really appreciate the help!   

 

I prefer R&S over either BJUP or ABeka. It's so very comprehensive, for one thing. I think having to write on actual paper instead of in workbooks is better. Also, everything the dc need to know is right there in their textbooks. The scripted lessons in the TM don't add anything except some face time between parent and child. 🙂

[MidwestFam]

On 5/2/2022 at 7:16 PM, Green Bean said:

We are liking The Good and The Beautiful for this short season. I would start at Level 4 for your guy. Nice, short lessons each day. Very bite sized writing. My easily overwhelmed autistic guy is doing so well with this now.

 

 

Just wanted to say thanks again for this recommendation- we are about 10 lessons in to Good and Beautiful and it is just what my son needs at the moment!  It feels very manageable and is solid and filling in gaps.  The placement test was spot on for him.  I can definitely see working through a few levels of this to get caught up before moving on to other things.  I was turned off from even considering this curriculum based on her philosophy of what books are acceptable, but I'm certainly willing to work around that now after experiencing it.

[Green Bean]

I’m so glad you found a great solution!