Beast Academy - upper grammar - a failure for anyone?

[Ting Tang]

I showed my son Beast Academy, and he immediately said he wanted to do it. He’s always loved graphic novels/comics. He’s currently using a Latin curriculum in that style. It works for him. He’s accelerated and likes sudoku puzzles. He does better when it’s something he wants to do, so I wonder if that would counteract the challenge or his typical grumbling about school. Has anyone’s child used it and not been prepared for a different style curriculum? I want him also to be able to complete traditional style math problems.  I’m looking at levels 4-5. He’s doing level 6 math with MLFLE now. We don’t like it. I don’t really have the time to supplement, nor do I want to. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Ting Tang

[El...]

My kids LOVE BA. My DS10 begged for it because his sister was using it, and he reads the textbook comics in bed at night. He's almost done with level 5 and there will be sadness when it runs out.

However, I would point out that the genius of BA is actually in the workbooks. They really lead you to understand. You can't solve the pages unless you understand. 

They're hard, tricky, and difficult. I sit next to Ds10 for every problem, and coach, being very careful not to do the work for him. Have I warned you enough yet? 

Dd14 did BA 2 through 5 and went right into AOPS Prealgebra, which took her 18 months. She's now completed Intro to Algebra and is on the last chapter of Counting and Probability. She gets it; the style works for her. She's excellent at struggling with math, and talks about majoring in math when she gets to college. 

The only thing I've had to add for DD is that I taught her the traditional layout for long division. BA teaches a really good method of understanding division, but doing it their way is slower and she makes occasional errors. We'll see what she uses when she's older. 

[Insertcreativenamehere]

I used BA with two kids. One has great mental math skills but struggled with traditional algorithms in 4th-5th grade. The way BA taught multidigit multiplication and long division was very helpful for him. I did MLFLE alongside as well and found it extremely weak by comparison. I think I ended up using it for summer review. FWIW, he is thriving now in high school math at a private school. 

My other kid was in part-time private school where her teacher raved about how well she was doing in math. I put her in the online BA program after she left that school and stayed home full-time, thinking it would be a good fit because her math skills were so strong (according to her teacher.) As it turned out, her foundation was weak and BA was not a good fit for her. She needs a ton of repetition and review and didn't get that in school or with BA. She's still homeschooled and she continues to struggle in math to the point where I think she may have dyscalculia or at the very least math anxiety. 😞

Edited April 13, 2022 by Insertcreativenamehere

[Ting Tang]

45 minutes ago, elroisees said:

My kids LOVE BA. My DS10 begged for it because his sister was using it, and he reads the textbook comics in bed at night. He's almost done with level 5 and there will be sadness when it runs out.

However, I would point out that the genius of BA is actually in the workbooks. They really lead you to understand. You can't solve the pages unless you understand. 

They're hard, tricky, and difficult. I sit next to Ds10 for every problem, and coach, being very careful not to do the work for him. Have I warned you enough yet? 

Dd14 did BA 2 through 5 and went right into AOPS Prealgebra, which took her 18 months. She's now completed Intro to Algebra and is on the last chapter of Counting and Probability. She gets it; the style works for her. She's excellent at struggling with math, and talks about majoring in math when she gets to college. 

The only thing I've had to add for DD is that I taught her the traditional layout for long division. BA teaches a really good method of understanding division, but doing it their way is slower and she makes occasional errors. We'll see what she uses when she's older. 

Thank you so much for sharing.  I have to sit next to him anyway, so I might as well do it with something he enjoys.  Assuming he'd enjoy it.   I am torn on whether or not to start him on level 4 or 5.  He's covered a lot of the material even in level 5, just not in the same way.  

Edited April 13, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Ting Tang]

29 minutes ago, Insertcreativenamehere said:

I used BA with two kids. One has great mental math skills but struggled with traditional algorithms in 4th-5th grade. The way BA taught multidigit multiplication and long division was very helpful for him. I did MLFLE alongside as well and found it extremely weak by comparison. I think I ended up using it for summer review. FWIW, he is thriving now in high school math at a private school. 

My other kid was in part-time private school where her teacher raved about how well she was doing in math. I put her in the online BA program after she left that school and stayed home full-time, thinking it would be a good fit because her math skills were so strong (according to her teacher.) As it turned out, her foundation was weak and BA was not a good fit for her. She needs a ton of repetition and review and didn't get that in school or with BA. She's still homeschooled and she continues to struggle in math to the point where I think she may have dyscalculia or at the very least math anxiety. 😞

Thank you so much for sharing.  I can see why it wouldn't work for some kids, but I definitely don't want to get through a year or two of it, switch to a traditional curriculum, and have him be lost.  MLFLE is quite weak--especially in the earlier grades. Level 6 is ok, but I just don't care for the style of it. The stories are super cheesy.  Super cheesy, lol.  I wondered if we should get both books and the online materials, but I am not sure if that would be redundant.  My son has covered a lot of what is even in level 5 in a traditional way, but I wonder if we should start level 4 since it is so different. 

[El...]

2 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Thank you so much for sharing.  I have to sit next to him anyway, so I might as well do it with something he enjoys.  Assuming he'd enjoy it.   I am torn on whether or not to start him on level 4 or 5.  He's covered a lot of the material even in level 5, just not in the same way.  

I'd start low, because it's fun! It would be better i think to learn to work puzzles when they're easy than to start hard. 

[El...]

One more thought... BA has no real lesson length, when you're using the books. We just do it until he's on the edge of frustrated, which is about an hour. That might mean 6 pages or just 1. So if you start low, you will probably go fast. I haven't figured out how to plan for it, myself. 

[Ting Tang]

35 minutes ago, elroisees said:

One more thought... BA has no real lesson length, when you're using the books. We just do it until he's on the edge of frustrated, which is about an hour. That might mean 6 pages or just 1. So if you start low, you will probably go fast. I haven't figured out how to plan for it, myself. 

Oh thank you! I’ll have to do some looking for a plan. That does concern me a bit because I’m a liker of teacher manuals, and I know BA doesn’t have that resource. I’ve thought about using BA to supplement CLE but then I have to line things up and I’m not sure that’s in the cards. Math Manmoth math looks good, but the kids do not seem to like how it looks. I just hope I could do a good job because I am more traditional with math. 

[Insertcreativenamehere]

I think BA helps improve problem-solving skills and encourages flexible thinking. I did find it necessary to supplement math facts, but YMMV. 

We used CLE for a few years and that was a good fit for kid #1 until he hit 4th grade and struggled with the standard algorithms for long division and multidigit multiplication. That's where BA was very helpful! MM was a no-go for all three of my kids and believe me, I tried! The format and lack of white space just didn't work for us even though I know it is very solid. If I had to do it again with these particular kids, I would stick with CLE as a primary math curriculum and supplement as needed with BA to reinforce concepts or introduce different ways of doing things. I might also require 15-20 minutes a day free use of BA online in addition to our normal math. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Insertcreativenamehere

[8filltheheart]

28 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Oh thank you! I’ll have to do some looking for a plan. That does concern me a bit because I’m a liker of teacher manuals, and I know BA doesn’t have that resource. I’ve thought about using BA to supplement CLE but then I have to line things up and I’m not sure that’s in the cards. Math Manmoth math looks good, but the kids do not seem to like how it looks. I just hope I could do a good job because I am more traditional with math. 

If you want to do more than 1 math program, I would not worry how they align.  I'd just work through them independent of each other.  I had one child who worked through Horizons and Math in Focus.  They don't align bc one is spiral and one is mastery.  Each taught their own topics, so each was "self-contained."  It didn't matter if they aligned.

[Xahm]

BA does have some teacher resources online that give an idea of how to break things into lessons as well as explain the methodology for each chapter. These are free on their website, but somehow many people overlook them. They also have free placement tests, but the placement tests tend to be easier than the level they place you into, so if your child is on the border with the test, go lower rather than higher.

[El...]

26 minutes ago, Xahm said:

BA does have some teacher resources online that give an idea of how to break things into lessons as well as explain the methodology for each chapter. These are free on their website, but somehow many people overlook them. They also have free placement tests, but the placement tests tend to be easier than the level they place you into, so if your child is on the border with the test, go lower rather than higher.

Wow, very cool! I'll go look! Though at this point we're just going forward as fast as we can without losing our minds. 😆

[Ting Tang]

4 hours ago, Insertcreativenamehere said:

I think BA helps improve problem-solving skills and encourages flexible thinking. I did find it necessary to supplement math facts, but YMMV. 

We used CLE for a few years and that was a good fit for kid #1 until he hit 4th grade and struggled with the standard algorithms for long division and multidigit multiplication. That's where BA was very helpful! MM was a no-go for all three of my kids and believe me, I tried! The format and lack of white space just didn't work for us even though I know it is very solid. If I had to do it again with these particular kids, I would stick with CLE as a primary math curriculum and supplement as needed with BA to reinforce concepts or introduce different ways of doing things. I might also require 15-20 minutes a day free use of BA online in addition to our normal math. 

Thank you so much for sharing!  My next in line struggles, and I do wonder if BA would be good for him, too.  I agree---the content in MM is so good.  But I really do not like the appearance of it. It reminds me of a word processed document, and I guess that is how it is kept pretty affordable.  I'm wondering if maybe we should get BA online for the rest of this school year to try it out.  

 

[Ting Tang]

4 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

If you want to do more than 1 math program, I would not worry how they align.  I'd just work through them independent of each other.  I had one child who worked through Horizons and Math in Focus.  They don't align bc one is spiral and one is mastery.  Each taught their own topics, so each was "self-contained."  It didn't matter if they aligned.

That is an idea, too!  Thank you.  I could see him grumbling about doing two, though, lol. 

[Ting Tang]

2 hours ago, Xahm said:

BA does have some teacher resources online that give an idea of how to break things into lessons as well as explain the methodology for each chapter. These are free on their website, but somehow many people overlook them. They also have free placement tests, but the placement tests tend to be easier than the level they place you into, so if your child is on the border with the test, go lower rather than higher.

Thank you!  Ok, I did see something about planning.  I'll have to see about placement. I absolutely hate the idea of dropping down and then pushing off pre-algebra---but I also wonder if this might be what he needs.  I am considering maybe purchasing the online version for the rest of the school year if there is a pay-monthly option.  From posts I've read, it might not even be terrible to drop down to level 3A.  He will be in 5th grade next year.

[SilverMoon]

My youngest has used Beast since level 3 and he's now on the top side of 5. We primarily used the online version, which has the same guidebooks and type of problem sets as the workbooks. 

The only "negative" impact I can see is he now gets rather angry at math books that do not thoroughly explain the why. Just knowing how to do the problem is not enough for him. 

His math skills are rock solid and have carried over to other math approaches. His shown work may not look like a traditional method but he is consistently doing well. 

No regrets. 🙂

Edited April 13, 2022 by SilverMoon

[8filltheheart]

2 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

Thank you!  Ok, I did see something about planning.  I'll have to see about placement. I absolutely hate the idea of dropping down and then pushing off pre-algebra---but I also wonder if this might be what he needs.  I am considering maybe purchasing the online version for the rest of the school year if there is a pay-monthly option.  From posts I've read, it might not even be terrible to drop down to level 3A.  He will be in 5th grade next year.

Just as a heads up, I bought level 2 when my dd was in 2nd grade.  At that pt she was mostly finished with 3rd grade level math.  She thought BA was dumb.  She already knew the content and the monster/comic books were not a pull in.  I was going to go ahead and order level 3, but she resisted, so I didn't bother.  Anyway, I wouldn't go back too far bc it might ruin his attitude toward it.  

Edited April 13, 2022 by 8filltheheart

[Ting Tang]

12 minutes ago, SilverMoon said:

My youngest has used Beast since level 3 and he's now on the top side of 5. We primarily used the online version, which has the same guidebooks and type of problem sets as the workbooks. 

The only "negative" impact I can see is he now gets rather angry at math books that do not thoroughly explain the why. Just knowing how to do the problem is not enough for him. 

His math skills are rock solid and have carried over to other math approaches. His shown work may not look like a traditional method but he is consistently doing well. 

No regrets. 🙂

Thank you! This what I like to read.  I just want to make sure doing traditional math wouldn't look foreign to him or that he wouldn't try to overcomplicate a simpler problem, if that makes sense.  If I purchase a month's worth of online service, do you know if we get access to all the material for each level?  

[Ting Tang]

13 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

Just as a heads up, I bought level 2 when my dd was in 2nd grade.  At that pt she was mostly finished with 3rd grade level math.  She thought BA was dumb.  She already knew the content and the monster/comic books to here were not a pull in.  I was going to go ahead and order level 3, but she resisted, so I didn't bother.  Anyway, I wouldn't go back to far bc it might ruin his attitude toward it.  

Oh thank you!  Yes, looking at the contents/scope and sequence, he has certainly had a lot of it already---just not in this depth.  

[SilverMoon]

19 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Thank you! This what I like to read.  I just want to make sure doing traditional math wouldn't look foreign to him or that he wouldn't try to overcomplicate a simpler problem, if that makes sense.  If I purchase a month's worth of online service, do you know if we get access to all the material for each level?  

Yes, paying for one month gives you full access for that month. You can adjust the levels in parent settings. I had my son's set so that he had to earn the next level opening by passing the previous, rather than giving him full access. 

[Insertcreativenamehere]

Look for group buys for BA online. I got in on one a couple of years ago that made it much more affordable. I think there used to be group buy FB pages. It's possible they no longer offer that option but it's worth looking into!

[Ting Tang]

57 minutes ago, SilverMoon said:

Yes, paying for one month gives you full access for that month. You can adjust the levels in parent settings. I had my son's set so that he had to earn the next level opening by passing the previous, rather than giving him full access. 

Great! Thank you. This is super helpful. It’d be nice to see what his working level is before we buy a level of books.

[Ting Tang]

34 minutes ago, Insertcreativenamehere said:

Look for group buys for BA online. I got in on one a couple of years ago that made it much more affordable. I think there used to be group buy FB pages. It's possible they no longer offer that option but it's worth looking into!

Oh thank you! I think we will try online (after a demo try) and go from there. 😊

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, Ting Tang said:

Oh thank you!  Yes, looking at the contents/scope and sequence, he has certainly had a lot of it already---just not in this depth.  

I think this is a topic that should really be evaluated.  I think the question of whether or not a student fully comprehends a concept is what needs to be considered.  Can they take what they are doing, explain it, apply it to unique situations, draw conclusions about it, etc?  No all topics need to explored in-depth in order for depth to be mastered.  It is a topic that matters to me, quite a bit actually.  When AoPS first became a popular on these forums, the impression was that without AoPS a student would never fully grasp complex math theory or be able to apply it.  AoPS is superb at helping big picture thinkers make the leaps to achieve those goals.  It is superb at what it does.  But, equally, AoPS does not work well for a whole host of learners, especially those who do better at understanding concepts through being taught step by step how to think about the big picture and then move toward implementing the concepts as a whole or students who can catch a glimmer of the big picture but who are too frustrated by trying to figure it out without being taught.  Some students can take what they are taught and can see the big picture clearly.

IOW, don't choose BA/AoPS bc of cartoons or bc it is supposedly the best.  It is only the best for those students who learn via its methodology.  There are other solid math programs that teach concepts thoroughly and in-depth with interesting application problems stretching their understanding and without the frustration factor that AoPS causes in some students.  The appeal to "fabulous" needs to be tempered by the real kid in front of you.  What are his specific needs?  Does he need to go backward in order to go forward more solidly?  Would using a more traditional program with more challenging word problems fill the gap that you are seeing?  

I am DEFINITELY NOT trying to talk you out of using BA, but nothing you have posted about your ds has led me to believe that you see him as behind conceptually.  I would just really recommend having clear objectives about the decision you make.  There are a lot options between CLE and BA that might allow you to feel confident in your teaching while allowing progression and challenge.

[Ting Tang]

49 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

I think this is a topic that should really be evaluated.  I think the question of whether or not a student fully comprehends a concept is what needs to be considered.  Can they take what they are doing, explain it, apply it to unique situations, draw conclusions about it, etc?  No all topics need to explored in-depth in order for depth to be mastered.  It is a topic that matters to me, quite a bit actually.  When AoPS first became a popular on these forums, the impression was that without AoPS a student would never fully grasp complex math theory or be able to apply it.  AoPS is superb at helping big picture thinkers make the leaps to achieve those goals.  It is superb at what it does.  But, equally, AoPS does not work well for a whole host of learners, especially those who do better at understanding concepts through being taught step by step how to think about the big picture and then move toward implementing the concepts as a whole or students who can catch a glimmer of the big picture but who are too frustrated by trying to figure it out without being taught.  Some students can take what they are taught and can see the big picture clearly.

IOW, don't choose BA/AoPS bc of cartoons or bc it is supposedly the best.  It is only the best for those students who learn via its methodology.  There are other solid math programs that teach concepts thoroughly and in-depth with interesting application problems stretching their understanding and without the frustration factor that AoPS causes in some students.  The appeal to "fabulous" needs to be tempered by the real kid in front of you.  What are his specific needs?  Does he need to go backward in order to go forward more solidly?  Would using a more traditional program with more challenging word problems fill the gap that you are seeing?  

I am DEFINITELY NOT trying to talk you out of using BA, but nothing you have posted about your ds has led me to believe that you see him as behind conceptually.  I would just really recommend having clear objectives about the decision you make.  There are a lot options between CLE and BA that might allow you to feel confident in your teaching while allowing progression and challenge.

Thank you so much! Yes, that’s my concern is that my son is drawn to the cartoons—- but the day in/day out, I wouldn’t want it to lose its appeal. I’m going to have him go through a demo lesson. We just did a couple from level 2 with my daughter, who is in 1st. She enjoyed it. Chapter 12 lost me, though, lol. Maybe online as a supplement could be a good option. My son is pretty bright, but he didn’t enjoy some of the drier materials we used this year. 

[UHP]

I find it to be completely inadequate as a curriculum (though I stuck with it for 2A-2D, and 3A). But my daughter loves the drawings and the characters. They are good as fictional "role models," who take things in stride when they are confused and who are part of a community of kids and adults who love talking about ideas. 

When I was using it, I found it more effective to use it "backwards": first present problems from the workbook along with my own ad hoc explanations. Once she seemed to catch on, let her read the comic where the characters learn the topic. "See, here they are jumping around on a number line just like you have been." The other direction (first pay very close attention to this enthusiastic but kind of inarticulate comic book math lesson, then work some hard problems) was bad for morale.

[Ting Tang]

24 minutes ago, UHP said:

I find it to be completely inadequate as a curriculum (though I stuck with it for 2A-2D, and 3A). But my daughter loves the drawings and the characters. They are good as fictional "role models," who take things in stride when they are confused and who are part of a community of kids and adults who love talking about ideas. 

When I was using it, I found it more effective to use it "backwards": first present problems from the workbook along with my own ad hoc explanations. Once she seemed to catch on, let her read the comic where the characters learn the topic. "See, here they are jumping around on a number line just like you have been." The other direction (first pay very close attention to this enthusiastic but kind of inarticulate comic book math lesson, then work some hard problems) was bad for morale.

Aww, I am sorry you didn't have a great experience with it.  I now have done demos with my rising 2nd and 5th graders.  My daughter seems interested, but after my eldest trying it, he now says he wants to think about it.  So the comics might not be enough!  What I am so afraid of is hopping around in math curriculums too much.  😞  I see with homeschool math curriculums that many teach different things at different times.  I am so afraid of making a wrong decision again.

[8filltheheart]

29 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Aww, I am sorry you didn't have a great experience with it.  I now have done demos with my rising 2nd and 5th graders.  My daughter seems interested, but after my eldest trying it, he now says he wants to think about it.  So the comics might not be enough!  What I am so afraid of is hopping around in math curriculums too much.  😞  I see with homeschool math curriculums that many teach different things at different times.  I am so afraid of making a wrong decision again.

That is a valid concern. I would recommend finding a curriculum you can teach confidently and add supplements to fill any concerns. I really like Hands On Equations Verbal Problems Book. They have a fraction bk, too, but I have not used it. You could look at MM topic bks, too, to shore up areas of concern.

[JennyD]

I have used BA with three kids, although it was just coming out (verrryyyyy slowwwwwllllly) when my oldest was elementary aged so he just used bits and pieces.  I love the program and have never been interested in switching, so I can't compare it to anything except maybe Singapore, which I used with my oldest before BA came out. 

FWIW, though, I am not a fan of the online version.  I wound up using it with my youngest when we were living abroad and suddenly had to revert to homeschooling when the kids' schools shut down in March 2020.  He really enjoyed it but I felt as though it was not nearly as effective as the books, and ultimately we had to backtrack and go over some topics again.  In large part I think this was because he really wanted to do the online program independently (and in fact it's designed to be done that way) instead of working together with me, as we do when using the books.  But even when I insisted that we do the online program together, it just wasn't as effective as the books. Maybe it's just that I myself am now accustomed to teaching with the books?  Don't know.  Anyway, big BA booster here, but for me the online and print programs are not interchangeable.

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by JennyD

[Ting Tang]

10 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

That is a valid concern. I would recommend finding a curriculum you can teach confidently and add supplements to fill any concerns. I really like Hands On Equations Verbal Problems Book. They have a fraction bk, too, but I have not used it. You could look at MM topic bks, too, to shore up areas of concern.

Thank you! I’ll have to take a look at that one. I have looked at Math Mammoth grade level and topics books quite a bit. My daughter just found The BA demo on the computer this morning. I think she is still drawn to color at age 7, lol. 

[Ting Tang]

9 hours ago, JennyD said:

I have used BA with three kids, although it was just coming out (verrryyyyy slowwwwwllllly) when my oldest was elementary aged so he just used bits and pieces.  I love the program and have never been interested in switching, so I can't compare it to anything except maybe Singapore, which I used with my oldest before BA came out. 

FWIW, though, I am not a fan of the online version.  I wound up using it with my youngest when we were living abroad and suddenly had to revert to homeschooling when the kids' schools shut down in March 2020.  He really enjoyed it but I felt as though it was not nearly as effective as the books, and ultimately we had to backtrack and go over some topics again.  In large part I think this was because he really wanted to do the online program independently (and in fact it's designed to be done that way) instead of working together with me, as we do when using the books.  But even when I insisted that we do the online program together, it just wasn't as effective as the books. Maybe it's just that I myself am now accustomed to teaching with the books?  Don't know.  Anyway, big BA booster here, but for me the online and print programs are not interchangeable.

 

Thank you for sharing. I’m sorry it didn’t work out. We always try our best— this year was a fail with master books math for us. Very little growth. I think we’d likely get the books if we used it as a complete curriculum, but we could use the computer version as a supplement. I’m still not overly confident— mainly for my oldest, I know he is bright, but he also likes easy. He doesn’t want to be grade levels ahead in math, even with a gentler curriculum.