Narrative in conversations

[PeterPan]

https://www.amazon.com/Talk-Step-Step-Conversation-Conversational/dp/1942197322/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=talk+with+me+mataya&qid=1632581442&sr=8-2  This book by Mataya/Aspy has a section in narratives in conversation. They break them into three categories (sequential, informational, emotional) and then two situations for use (beginning a conversation, relating to something in the conversation). 

It seems like there's this gap between what we're teaching with our narrative language programs (include an emotion word, let an emotion drive the problem solving) and the emotion FOCUS of what occurs in NT conversation. 

I'm just pondering it, but I think I need to up my game on how I work with narrative with ds. I think we could take the same narrative model and tell it three ways, making the focus (for conversational purposes) more obvious. Right now he does a lot of informational, doesn't care about sequential, and doesn't know why he'd do emotional. And I don't notice anyone working with him approaching it that analytically. 

I haven't found a lot by Mataya for workshops, etc. https://autismawarenesscentre.com/shop/webinar/past-webinars/helpful-tips-and-resources-for-teaching-conversation-skills-to-high-functioning-students-with-autism-spectrum-disorder/  The book just needs more fleshing out to fill the gap on how to DO it, how to teach it. It's more just a framework of what the issues are. And the framework helps, but there's a lot more to be done. 

This kind of generic list https://autismawarenesscentre.com/small-talk-can-loom-large-teaching-child-flow-conversation/  is more the type of stuff the SLPs try to do with my ds, and it really doesn't get into his head the issues of why his conversation is off. The Mataya framework makes a lot more sense. There's just this massive gap between the low goal (passably conversant) and actually functional hanging with NT people level conversation. 

 

[Lecka]

I have that book and should look through it again!

The workshop looks great!  I hope to have time to look at it this week!  
 

The last time I looked at the book, I thought it looked great but slightly too advanced.  Maybe now that some time has gone by it will be a better fit.  

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

I thought it looked great but slightly too advanced.

I thought that too, but what I'm realizing now is she has 5 years of intervention put into a tight framework. She's not fleshing out everything, so it LOOKS like oh one year shazam, and it's not. There's no way, lol.

So the better question is how we make our current interventions more consistent with where they can go. I want my narrative approach and conversation to merge better, just like we look for consistent methodologies between our reading and spelling instructions.

And frankly, I see NOBODY in the SLP/intervention community talking about this. They're only oh this program, or that program or oh my TPT file. And yet every single time you like at the data, for EVERY SINGLE one of these programs (advanced grammar, narrative, any program) they struggle, struggle, struggle to get the skills APPLIED. Well isn't CONVERSATION the logical application? 

I got Story Champs, and while the models are helpful and the graphics terrific, reality he STILL doesn't know why he's giving the narrative or what the context is or who the audience is. It's completely devoid of POINT. ie. it was removed from a conversational flow. And I'm seeing that it's not just that they removed it. They assumed that retelling a PICTURE BOOK would somehow magically turn into being able to give appropriate narrative IN CONVERSATION. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

I think the more telling thing would be to ponder what those narrative components in conversation would look like at different ages. What does it look like to give a sequential or informational narrative when you're 3 or 6 or 10? My ds functions closer to a 10 year old, and what would their narratives look like? And emotional, those would surely mature and become more sophisticated with time too (with more implied, etc.). So I think we could ponder what it looks like to give an emotional narrative for their developmental level. 

Nuts, just realizing he was being all informational would be a total lightbulb moment for my ds. I don't know if you noticed it, but Mataya likes the book Thinking in Threes and mentions it in her stuff. It has a workbook component, but it's also just a concept. So I think she's applying it there with the 3 types of narratives in conversation and wanting them to become *flexible*, pondering how they could tell the same story three ways. It would change their mindset to be more flexible.

[PeterPan]

Ok, that was kind of fun! I tried today for the first time having ds telling the Story Champs model 3 ways (sequential, informational, emotional). It really stretched him to think about audience and language. He would speed up and go into funny voices, which probably reflects that it's hard for him and not something he's used to doing naturally. 

The Story Champs kit was crazy $$, but it's nice having so many basic models to work with. 

Maybe tomorrow we can flip it, with me giving a narrative and him determining which it was. Then we could play with audience and situation (beginning or midconversation, etc.) and deciding which to use. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by PeterPan