What next after NEM Level 2 (8th grade)

[bfw0729]

I have a daughter who is completing SM 6B. I am trying to figure out if I should move her to AoPS Pre Algebra or try New Elementary Mathematics Level 1.  I have both programs, but I am curious which type of math do you move into after NEM Level 2 in 8th grade? Do you move into Algebra I or 2? Is there enough Geometry in NEM 1 and 2 to count as a full credit of Geometry? I  often don't see families using this curriculum. I have it here and am trying to pick between the two. Also, I have an older child using AoPS and is doing well with it. I'm a little concerned with the 6th grader moving on to AoPS because of the amount of reading and problem solving that is required of AoPS.

Edited May 16, 2020 by bfw0729

[Lori D.]

First -- wow that you could even find NEM! That has been out of circulation for over a decade! 

Back when DS#1 was moving into the higher maths -- he went through Singapore Primary up through 6A/B, and then we got through about the first half of NEM I (when he was in 7th grade -- so, older than your student -- and this is my very math-y student).

My observations:

- NEM 1 is a BIG jump up in difficulty
- NEM 1 involves advanced problem-solving (at a higher level than Singapore Primary)
- NEM  is best taken at a slower pace than one level per year -- so NEM 1 may very well take you more like 1.5 years to do at a pace comfortable for your student
- NEM ultimately did not have enough teacher support for ME to help DS#1 successfully get through the program; he was able to do a fair amount on his own, but he would hit spots fairly often where he needed help, and if I hadn't been *doing* the program alongside him, I would not have been able to help him; ultimately, not having enough teaching support is why we left NEM about halfway through NEM 1 -- I knew I was not going to have the time or ability to do a higher math program daily alongside with DS for the 4 years of higher math

NEM integrates the different math topics, so the sequence is different from traditional U.S. higher maths. I managed to pull this up from an OLD WTM thread ("Is NEM high school level work?") , which was quoting an OLD page from the Singapore website, back when they still offered NEM:

Pre-algebra = PM 6 + NEM 1, Ch. 1-4
Algebra I = NEM 1, Ch. 5-8 + NEM 2, Ch. 1-7, 12-14
Geometry = NEM 1, Ch. 9-14 + NEM 2, Ch. 8-11
Algebra II = NEM 3, Ch. 1-6, 14 + some of NEM 4
Advanced Math/Trig = NEM 3: ch. 7-13 + NEM 4, ch. 1-4 (precalculus)


DS#1 loved Singapore Primary, and was enjoying NEM 1, but he totally understood that it was going to get rougher for both of us. So we switched to Jacobs Algebra I, and then Jacobs Geometry (2nd ed.) and never looked back. Both Jacobs programs turned out to be among his top favorite programs in our years of homeschooling. (He had also loved Miquon, and then Singapore Primary). Jacobs is more incremental, with problem sets that build up slowly, and then an optional trickier math puzzler, so there can still be some of the problem solving aspects that are in Singapore, but easier for a younger student as it is more incremental and has more hand-holding for the teacher. Just our experience.  😄 

Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

ETA -- PS, you might find these threads helpful in giving you other options to NEM, if you're thinking it may not be the best fit for your student:
"Where to go after Singapore 6B?"
"Math after Singapore 6B?"
"Not loving AoPS Pre-Algebra -- can anyone compare/contrast Singapore Dimensions vs. NEM?"
"Questions about Singapore, NEM, DM..." (comparison of several of Singapore's higher math programs, plus a few other options)

Edited May 16, 2020 by Lori D.

[Kathy in Richmond]

It’s been a while, but my Math-loving daughter went into NEM 1 & 2 after finishing Singapore 6a&b. 

Like Lori said, NEM was kind of dry and a bit tedious after Singapore primary. There were a few challenge problems, but not as fun as the bar diagrams she’d enjoyed in previous years. We eventually bailed half way through NEM 2. Again, like Lori, we moved to Jacobs algebra and geometry, completing both programs in full, and they were big hits here.

I would not recommend skipping to algebra 2 directly out of NEM. I compared scope & sequence at the time, and some standard topics were missing from NEM, such as graphing linear equations (that’s what I remember but there were more). As a lifelong math educator,  I’m a big believer in having a very firm foundation in algebra and geometry before moving on to higher maths. 🙂

[bfw0729]

This is the copy I have... lookig at the inside cover, it states it was first published in 1991 - new edition 1996 - reprinted from 1997 almost every year until the final date of 2013.

https://www.amazon.com/New-Elementary-Mathematics-Syllabus-Level/dp/9812714111

Edited May 20, 2020 by bfw0729

[bfw0729]

My daughter is a young sixth grader. She doesn't turn 12 until the end of the summer. I expect if we went ahead with either NEM 1 or AoPS Prealgebra, that it would take her (us) 1.5 to 2 years. I have made some mistakes with my older kids - they are currently in 7th grade-, transitioning them into prealgebra programs that they both disliked. This "held them back" a bit, whereas before they were 1-2 years "ahead". I know it doesn't really matter to be ahead or at level, but my older twins enjoyed being a bit ahead. They see their cousins and friends at certain levels and they wanted the same. I had no problem with it as long as they understood the material. They are math minded kids, but the program I had chosen for them (videotext) was not a good fit. One twin then went into AoPS prealgebra and the other into Doliciani prealgebra. Both are much happier and learning more. 

I DON'T want to waste time again. I feel I messed up a bit with the others and want to try to pick the right program for her.  She too does well in math. I would prefer NEM or AoPS with her. 

I know with AoPs, it moves predictably and sequentially into their other books, but what about NEM 1? What book comes next if we don't continue with NEM 2? I am looking at Jacobs for her as well. Maybe Jacobs Algebra 1?  I see Lori D's breakdown of the chapters and corresponding lessons. Wow, it does seem pretty advanced when it's broken down that way. Would you say it's more advnaced than AoPS or just different because of what each book covers?

Edited May 20, 2020 by bfw0729

[Lori D.]

19 hours ago, bfw0729 said:

My daughter is a young sixth grader. She doesn't turn 12 until the end of the summer. I expect if we went ahead with either NEM 1 or AoPS Prealgebra, that it would take her (us) 1.5 to 2 years. I have made some mistakes with my older kids - they are currently in 7th grade-, transitioning them into prealgebra programs that they both disliked. This "held them back" a bit, whereas before they were 1-2 years "ahead". I know it doesn't really matter to be ahead or at level, but my older twins enjoyed being a bit ahead. They see their cousins and friends at certain levels and they wanted the same. I had no problem with it as long as they understood the material. They are math minded kids, but the program I had chosen for them (videotext) was not a good fit. One twin then went into AoPS prealgebra and the other into Doliciani prealgebra. Both are much happier and learning more. 

I DON'T want to waste time again. I feel I messed up a bit with the others and want to try to pick the right program for her.  She too does well in math. I would prefer NEM or AoPS with her. 

I know with AoPs, it moves predictably and sequentially into their other books, but what about NEM 1? What book comes next if we don't continue with NEM 2? I am looking at Jacobs for her as well. Maybe Jacobs Algebra 1?  I see Lori D's breakdown of the chapters and corresponding lessons. Wow, it does seem pretty advanced when it's broken down that way. Would you say it's more advnaced than AoPS or just different because of what each book covers?

No personal experience with AoPS, so I can't compare in with NEM.

But compared to Singapore Primary, yes, I thought NEM 1 was a very big jump up from Singapore 6A/B and we slowed way down -- and DS was an older 7th grader, and is naturally very math-minded. We did the first half of NEM1, and then did all of Jacobs Algebra 1; they seemed so very different that doing Jacobs after NEM1 did not seem like repeat.

If you do switch to something else after NEM1, you will probably just want to do "skim review" over sections in the new program that overlap -- to make sure you didn't miss any concepts, but also to review concepts and to get used to the new program's way of doing things.

Another thought: Algebra 1 is so foundational that even if you do NEM 1 and then switch to something else, getting such a solid foundation for the higher maths with a young student is never a bad idea, and since she's young, you've got plenty of time to take your time.

Also: colleges want to see 3-4 math credits progressing in level during high school (as they sometimes don't count high school math credits completed before 9th grade). So if she completes Alg. II by 8th or 9th grade, will she WANT to do another 3-4 math credits above Alg. II during her high school years?

What about taking your time and going "broad" for 6th grade and exploring other topics using a variety of resources, to allow the abstract thinking and logic portions of the brain needed for the higher maths to mature? For the average student, that brain maturity starts to develop along about age 13-14. Even if your DD is an earlier bloomer, she will *just* be turning 12yo, so delaying starting AoPS or NEM1 until halfway through next year, would give her more time to develop those brain areas that will make it easier for her to move into Algebra 1 topics.

Just some rambling thoughts... 😉 Warmest regards, Lori D.