Preparing for Omnibus?

[Elohcin]

Those of you who use Omnibus or are planning on it what would you recommend for preparation?

 

I have a 5th grader and we are a year and a half away from using it. She is a strong reader and becoming a better writer, but we still need some work.

 

Do any of you who are there have any prep recommendations or wish you had done such and such or any words of advice?

 

I haven't decided whether we are going to do it at home or the online class yet. From what I have read in the old posts it seems many think it takes a lot of time to accomplish in a homeschool setting and I have 4 younger children. I am wondering if those of you who are in the trenches think it is doable with younger kids. I'd like to believe that I could, but it would also be nice to have her in a class where she was accountable to another and to have the discussions with the whole class.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks.

[SonshineLearner]

I'm excited to see if you receive any replies;-) I have a 5th grader, too, and am thinking of the Omnibus or Challenge (Classical Conversations). I'm really excited to see how others prepare for the Omnibus. If we do it, we'll do it in a group setting. (hopefully!)

[momee]

I'm guessing you all are asking about the kids prep? As a mom of a 9th grader with a poor education - it would have helped our hs experience if I'd prepped myself :D

 

here's a thread you might want to spend some time looking at

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67742&highlight=omnibus

[Cedarmom]

Kid prep: I would have them read some of the great book readings in abridged form. The more familiar they are with the story, the easier it will be to understand. I would use the questions provided in WTM. After reading the book, we would discuss the questions. This helped prepare my son for great book discussions more than anythig. If you follow WTM, your child will be prepared for any great book study you choose to do.

 

Mom prep: begin reading some of the books now. It sounds like you are very busy, so you may not get a bunch read. But any reading you do, will help you be better prepared. Set a goal of reading 15 min. -30 mins a day.

[Michelle in MO]

reader and a good writer. My recommendation would be to continue to have her read a lot, challenging her with more difficult reading material, and also have her continue writing a lot.

 

We opted not to do the online class (for Omnibus I, with a 7th and 9th grader, and then for Omnibus II when they were in 8th and 10th, respectively) because then you are committed to doing all of the readings, and I wasn't sure we wanted to do all of that! We did much more readings from Omnibus II, however, and it was a very successful year.

 

It might be easier on you to have her enroll in the online course, but make sure that both you and she are up to the time commitment that will be involved. I never did all of Omnibus, but I would think that if you did all of the readings and work involved that you should easily schedule in 2+ hours a day. But---having someone else keep her accountable might make it easier for you, with little ones around.

 

Also, Omnibus begins to implement many of the progymnasmata writing exercises that are found in classical writing programs. I would have your daughter start some of those, either with Classical Writing by Lene Mahler Jaqua and Tracy Gustilo, or else possibly with Cindy Marsch of Writing Assessment Services. Under "Courses" (click on it) you will find the page for "Progymnasmata" . As a caveat, however, Cindy Marsch generally recommends that children younger than about age 12 do lots of dictation, copywork, etc. I think she generally prefers parents to wait until that age before enrolling their kids in her tutorials. However, I would certainly send her an e-mail and ask her further about this. If you decided to enroll your daughter in her tutorials, you would need to schedule in at least an hour into your school day for a daily writing time, and you would start her out on the first level of the progymnasmata, which is Narrative, Fable, and Proverb, I believe. Also, the progym. tutorials last for approximately one month, so we found that month to be pretty writing-intensive---although it was good intensive, if you know what I mean. I believe the word "progym" means "workout". They are writing exercises, but of course they have a point and they do teach a child writing techniques that are applicable to modern-day writing. In fact, some of the best examples of modern-day writing available really do hearken back to these ancient Greek writing exercises. Also, in my opinion, it would be best to have some experience with the progymnasmata on your own with your daughter before enrolling in one of Cindy's tutorials---but again, I would ask her about that and just explain your daughter's writing background to her.

 

Back to Omnibus. One of my complaints about the writing in Omnibus was that, although they have the very best intentions in having students work through the progymnasmata throughout the Omnibus series, nevertheless I believe that VP falls short of how the progym. were originally intended to be used. They are very sequential, methodical writing exercises. I found that both Omnibus I and Omnibus II did not introduce the progym. in any sequential, logical order, nor was there any of what I would consider the very necessary build-up to tackling that type of writing. The progym. have a very specific order. The progym. in Omnibus does not follow that order at all. Now, please understand, all users of VP materials and Omnibus, that I'm not stating that the writing in Omnibus is completely impractical. Perhaps students who have used VP materials all along, or students at Veritas Academy, have had much more extensive experience in the progymnasmata than my girls did---so you need to keep that thought in mind too.

 

Bear in mind as well that the readings for Omnibus I (Ancients) are generally more difficult than the readings in Omnibus II or III (which I don't own, but would love to!). The ancient readings can be very difficult, but they can also be extremely rewarding. Your daughter will encounter huge books like Herodotus Histories that look completely daunting, but in reality we found quite enjoyable to read! So, the size of the book doesn't necessarily indicate the difficulty of the readings, but I would say in general that reading ancient literature is more difficult than reading modern literature.

 

Also, there are some pretty explicit s*xual references in Omnibus I. Most of these don't bother me, but be aware that Omnibus I does tackle Suetonius' work The Twelve Caesars, which we completely avoided. I was actually quite surprised that they chose that work, because there are some references to Tiberius Caesar's s*xual preferences that I don't think most 7th graders need to be thinking about. All that aside, however, the online courses have an excellent way of handling this, I believe, because they do give parents full disclosure and I believe also the option to "opt out" of certain portions. So---I would contact VP about that via e-mail or by phone and talk to them further about that. Bruce Etter is the online teacher for the Omnibus courses, and I've heard nothing but good things about him as a teacher.

 

So---with that deluge of information, I hope I've helped and not muddied the issue for you further!

[Elohcin]

Thanks to you all.

 

Michelle we are using Classical Writing. It is a teriffic writing program. I think that I am learning as much as she is. Your idea to really challenge her in her reading is a great idea. She is really eager to read Shakespeare and Plutarch ala Ambleside Online. Would you suggest any particular kind of reading? Or just any more challenging reading.

 

I don't know what to do about the online class vs home. I would really like to go through this with her. Maybe I will outsource another subject.

 

Did you find that despite the progym problems with Omni that you were able to work through them?

 

Thank You Momee for the thread-more food for thought!

 

Cedarmom, I am reading them and going through them. I think it will really help the both of us.

[Michelle in MO]

Thanks to you all.

 

Michelle we are using Classical Writing. It is a teriffic writing program. I think that I am learning as much as she is. Your idea to really challenge her in her reading is a great idea. She is really eager to read Shakespeare and Plutarch ala Ambleside Online. Would you suggest any particular kind of reading? Or just any more challenging reading.

 

I don't know what to do about the online class vs home. I would really like to go through this with her. Maybe I will outsource another subject.

 

Did you find that despite the progym problems with Omni that you were able to work through them?

 

Thank You Momee for the thread-more food for thought!

 

Cedarmom, I am reading them and going through them. I think it will really help the both of us.

 

you will already have that familiarity with the progymnasmata. I used CW up through Diogenes, and then I realized that we needed to step up the pace of our writing a bit in order to prepare my girls (who were then in 7th and 9th grades) for high school and beyond. Since the publishing schedule of the CW series was a little slower than what my girls needed, I signed them up for Cindy Marsch's progym. tutorials. We went through the Beginning and Intermediate levels of her progym. tutorials, and I did find that CW helped to prepare them for the tutorials, which were more intense (for us, anyway! :) ).

 

I think any kind of challenging reading would be good; Shakespeare is always nice, but any "meatier" type of book would be good. My older two naturally gravitated towards more difficult reading materials. For example, by the time my oldest was in 8th grade, she had already read The Scarlet Letter, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Les Miserables, The Grapes of Wrath, and some other more challenging books, plus several Shakespeare plays on her own. She was well-prepared for Omnibus, but there still were some challenges with reading Omnibus, particularly the ancients.

 

Don't let me caveats sway you away, necessarily, from taking the online course. I would recommend that you e-mail Veritas Press and ask if you can send an e-mail directly to Bruce Etter. It's perfectly fine to be honest in explaining where your daughter is at now, the ages of your children, your desires for having your daughter tackle Omnibus, etc. The online class may or may not be a perfect fit for her and you together. I would also ask how much time you would need to schedule into her day to complete the Omnibus readings and written assignments.

 

Since I didn't personally care for the way Omnibus tackled the progymnasmata (like I mentioned previously, it seemed a bit haphazard for my tastes; on the other hand, I hadn't used all of VP's materials so perhaps we as a family were less prepared), what I ended up doing was using the Omnibus Summa (Questions) for essays rather than for discussions. After we had completed about half of the reading for a particular book, I would look through all of the Summa questions and usually give the girls two or possibly three of the questions that they could write about. They would choose just one topic, of course, and then I would type up my specific requirements for their papers: length, number of words, font, spacing, margins, minimum number of references, what form those references had to take, etc. Then, I would have the girl submit their written assignments to Cindy Marsch (mentioned in my previous post) for a grade; I would also e-mail Cindy the topic they had chosen and the requirements I had set for their papers. This was an evaluation, which was separate from the progym. tutorials, and therefore I paid a separate fee. (What actually ended up happening is that I had purchased one of Cindy's larger "word count" packages of approximately 10,000 words, I believe, and used up a portion thereof to prepare for my GRE last March. When I was done, Cindy gladly allowed me to use the remainder of that word count for the girls' evaluations on the Summa essays). With one of the Shakespeare plays, A Midsummer Night's Dream, I didn't like either the progym. exercise or the Summa questions, so I gave them my own assignment. Overall, though, it all worked out fine.

 

Again, if you're considering the online course, ask Mr. Etter what would be their recommendations for preparing for the progym. writing assignments. It's not that they're bad assignments, necessarily; it's probably more that I thought the progym. were better handled sequentially. Does that make sense?

 

If you have any more questions, please let me know!

Edited November 24, 2008 by Michelle in MO

[Elohcin]

Thanks Michelle. I did email Veritas. It will be interesting to see their reply.

[Beth in SW WA]

Yes, thanks Michelle for that thorough response. I need to decide what ds will do for writing next year while we do Omni 1.

 

I see Kathy Weitz is offering an online class for older beginners in January. I always swore that CW would not ever be anything I would attempt. Never say never, I guess :)

 

Michelle, what would a ballpark $$ figure be for Cindy Marsch's assistance? Do you remember how much you budgeted for her?

 

And Cedarmom & momee, great advice.

[Beth in SW WA]

Nevermind Michelle,

 

We are taking a class w/ Kathy Weitz at CW. It is wonderful! CW is tough, though. My kids are doing remedial grammar work to get to where they can actually do the work in CW. I have never seen a writing program quite like this.

[laughing lioness]

I agree with getting your kids up to speed with meatier reading. I think reading un-abridged classics out-loud with the kids is also a great way to go. I read outloud from Greenleaf's Ancient Lit this summer (partly because we were starting with Omni II and wanted a brief overview on the ancients), so we read Epic of Gilgamesh, etc together (which all of my kids were "invited" to attend- my 9 yo wants to do Beowulf for drama camp!) and discussed.

My 14 yo hasn't had a problem with the reading, has actually said they are pretty basic, though he is really dragging his feet on the questions. I am doing ALL questions outloud, including summa. I don't see that there is actual writing instruction and the mechanics of writing still trouble my left handed, upside down and backwards very bright young man. So, I don't want to hang him up from the reading/discussion based on how quickly he can churn out the writing. All of that being said, I am currently re-thinking his writing for the year.

Wonderful response Michelle in MO- thank-you!