Going to a large curriculum expo next Friday...

[mlktwins]

We are heading into 9th grade and I have everything decided for next year except for history and LA.  This is the last curriculum expo I plan to go to and the boys are coming with me so they can look and have input too.

There will be a lot of vendors there (HEAV convention in Richmond).  What do I want to make sure I look at for these 2 subjects (and anything else you think I might find interesting)?  I like looking at curriculum in person if I can :-). 

[Mbelle]

Do you want to somewhat combine the age periods for those two subjects?    Or do European History and British/European Lit.  American History/American Lit Ancient History with Classic LIt.  MP does great Ancient history and Classical Lit.    

[Mbelle]

Ok, I took a look at the vendors.  I would check out Circe, Essentials in Writing, IEW, Memoria Press, Veritas Press, CAP, 

These are the only ones I know about and I'm sure there are other great ones.  I did do CLE history one year and I do like CLE but not particularly for history. It just wasn't very engaging and I think I like them better in the younger years.   My kids have mostly outsourced for high school.  They did do some MP Classical Comp, Latin and Lit, as well as some IEW.

[Lori D.]

Quick side note: I thought you were considering doing Literary Lessons From the Lord of the Rings (due to DSs' interest in the trilogy) + Windows to the World or a writing program for next year??

 

re: LA
The Language Arts of elementary/middle school years becomes the English credit for high school. And the high school English credit is typically composed of 1/2 Literature and 1/2 Writing. (Some people also include a little light Grammar review, and/or some Vocabulary, and/or remedial Spelling, if any of these are needed or desired.) Since most programs do not include both the literary elements/literary analysis and info on literature topics for the Literature, AND the guided instruction, exercises, assignments, and grading rubrics for the Writing, most homeschoolers go with separate programs to cover the Writing and the Literature.

Long way of saying: you'll probably want to look at both Literature and Writing programs. (:D Here is the "usual line-up of suspects":

Writing
- Essentials in Writing - 1 year, video-based lessons, additional grading option for a fee
- Power in Your Hands - 1 year, written to the student, covers a broad range of types of writing
- IEW - 1 year
- Elegant Essay + Writing Research Papers the Essential Tools (or other) - each is 1 semester
- outsource to an online course provider

Literature
- Windows to the World -- 1 semester, 6 short stories, major literary elements/beginning analysis, how to write a literary analysis essay (add Jill Pike syllabus for a full year)
- Excellence in Literature:
   Introduction to Literature -- 1 year; 9 units -- 5 novels, 6 short stories, 2 plays, 1 novella; writing assignment heavy
   OR Literature and Composition -- 1 year; 9 units -- 5 novels, 1 nonfiction/essay, 3 plays
- Bob Jones: Fundamentals of Literature -- 6 units grouped around literary elements; uses short works & excerpts of longer works; very thorough; requires more parent time
- Essentials in Literature: grade 9 -- 1 novel, 7 short stories, 16 poems, 5 non-fiction (1 biography, 2 letters, 2 articles/reviews)


re: History
What have you been using, and has it been a good fit? If so, I'd just go with the next level of that.

Otherwise, homeschoolers tend to go with one of these options:
- textbook -- Spielvogel, etc.
- living book-based program -- Sonlight, My Father's World, Biblioplan, Pandia Press History Odyssey, etc.
- classical program -- Tapestry of Grace, Veritas Omnibus, Roman Roads Media, etc.
- DIY -- often using many resources: documentaries/videos, Teaching Company Great Course, non-fiction books, etc.

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Lori D.

[Lori D.]

Also, have you mapped out your Social Studies credits for high school? Usually these are required by many colleges for admission:
- 1 credit = American History
- 1 credit = World History/Geography
- 0.5 credit each = Economics and Government

That's 3 credits right there. And if your DSs get interested in doing some other Social Studies topic -- Philosophy, Religious Studies, Anthropology, Archeology, Sociology, Political Science, etc. -- that can be another credit, bringing you up to 4 credits of Social Studies, with 2 being History credits.

And if you all really WANT 4 years of History, then you'll want to plan for at least a 5th credit to cover the Econ + Gov't.

Or, if your students aren't that "into" History, then perhaps rather than a 4 year classical History study + 1 year of American History + 1 year of Econ & Gov't, knowing in advance that they don't want/need more than 2 History credits can help you pick the specific World History program that is a better fit -- maybe a 1 year overview of World History + 1 year of American History. Or a 2-year World History program + 1 year of American History --

Edited June 1, 2019 by Lori D.

[mlktwins]

5 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Quick side note: I thought you were considering doing Literary Lessons From the Lord of the Rings (due to DSs' interest in the trilogy) + Windows to the World or a writing program for next year??

Lori D. - LLLOTR is very much on the table for next year along with Windows to the World.  I do want to look at the IEW table though and look through their stuff in person.  I also have WWS already, but they don't love the program.  They don't love writing though and I don't think it will matter what I pick 😞.  They can write; they just don't like to do it.  They do know that will be a major focus for the next 4 years though!  I need to add writing if we do Lord of the Rings + Windows to the World, correct?

re: LA
The Language Arts of elementary/middle school years becomes the English credit for high school. And the high school English credit is typically composed of 1/2 Literature and 1/2 Writing. (Some people also include a little light Grammar review, and/or some Vocabulary, and/or remedial Spelling, if any of these are needed or desired.) Since most programs do not include both the literary elements/literary analysis and info on literature topics for the Literature, AND the guided instruction, exercises, assignments, and grading rubrics for the Writing, most homeschoolers go with separate programs to cover the Writing and the Literature.

Long way of saying: you'll probably want to look at both Literature and Writing programs. (:D Here is the "usual line-up of suspects":

Writing
- Essentials in Writing - 1 year, video-based lessons, additional grading option for a fee
- Power in Your Hands - 1 year, written to the student, covers a broad range of types of writing
- IEW - 1 year
- Elegant Essay;  - 1 semester,
- outsource to an online course provider

We are almost done with Analytical Grammar and then no more formal grammar.  We will finish the Vocab from Classical Roots D & E (we already have them).  Both are natural spellers and we are done with any formal work there too.

We do need to work more on literary elements/literary analysis and literature topics.  I had Figuratively Speaking with the short stories lined up for this past year, but we didn't get to it.  We school through summer thought so I'm hoping to start working our way through that now. 

We did a year of EIW in elementary.  It was fine, but we didn't like the videos.  Maybe they are better now.  I have a used (brand new) older version of Elegant Essay.  I have seen mixed reviews on here.  I know they don't like WWS, but it gets done?!?!?  In addition to EIW, we've done one year of IEW (Bible Stories), WWE (all 4), and WWS.

We are set for outsourced classes for the year (Spanish and Honors Biology + lab).  The rest will be done at home.  After the year I've had with my dad, I want to get back to what we all loved about homeschooling in the first place and that was being home doing school.  I would like to do writing at home for 9th and will probably outsource the rest of the years.

Literature
- Windows to the World -- 1 semester, 6 short stories, major literary elements/beginning analysis, how to write a literary analysis essay (add Jill Pike syllabus for a full year)
- Excellence in Literature: Introduction to Literature -- 1 year; 9 units -- 5 novels, 6 short stories, 2 plays, 1 novella; writing assignment heavy
- Bob Jones: Fundamentals of Literature -- 6 units grouped around literary elements; uses short works & excerpts of longer works; very thorough; requires more parent time
- Essentials in Literature: grade 9 -- 1 novel, 7 short stories, 16 poems, 5 non-fiction (1 biography, 2 letters, 2 articles/reviews)


re: History
What have you been using, and has it been a good fit? If so, I'd just go with the next level of that.

We've done all 4 years of SOTW with activity guide and extra reading.  They did US history for middle school - Hakim's History of US with Hewitt's junior high syllabus with tests, both CTC US History Detective Books (they liked those), and extra reading.  We are all tired of US History -- LOL.  We also did some unit studies on elections, justice, etc.

Otherwise, homeschoolers tend to go with one of these options:
- textbook -- Spielvogel, etc.
- living book-based program -- Sonlight, My Father's World, Biblioplan, Pandia Press History Odyssey, etc.
- classical program -- Tapestry of Grace, Veritas Omnibus, Roman Roads Media, etc.
- DIY -- often using many resources: documentaries/videos, Teaching Company Great Course, non-fiction books, etc.

I have been looking at threads and have seen the Spielvogel book mentioned a lot.  I brought home HOTMW and HOTRW from the library for them to look through to see if maybe HOTAW was an option (it has been a long time since we've done ancients).  They both liked the format and one is almost done reading HOTMW for fun.  I'm hoping to look at the activity guide at the expo.  I do like the idea of doing something with Great Courses because they look interesting and they have liked watching documentaries, etc.  If they had their choice, they would prefer Modern World History.  They enjoyed that time period most in SOTW and when doing US History.  They would do any of the time periods though.  I think I need to be doing something that involves more writing at this level?!?!?  I am hoping to do an AP/Honors Human Geography class locally next year.  We will follow with US/Virginia History, Government, and Economics to round it off.  They are not interested in doing a History of Science, Psychology, etc. year for a Social Studies credit.

 

 

Responded to your questions in red above :-).

I'm still trying to figure all of this out so I am open to any/all suggestions :-).

 

[mlktwins]

18 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Also, have you mapped out your Social Studies credits for high school? Usually these are required by many colleges for admission:
- 1 credit = American History
- 1 credit = World History/Geography
- 0.5 credit each = Economics and Government

That's 3 credits right there. And if your DSs get interested in doing some other Social Studies topic -- Philosophy, Religious Studies, Anthropology, Archeology, Sociology, Political Science, etc. -- that can be another credit, bringing you up to 4 credits of Social Studies, with 2 being History credits.

And if you all really WANT 4 years of History, then you'll want to plan for at least a 5th credit to cover the Econ + Gov't.

Or, if your students aren't that "into" History, then perhaps rather than a 4 year classical History study + 1 year of American History + 1 year of Econ & Gov't, knowing in advance that they don't want/need more than 2 History credits can help you pick the specific World History program that is a better fit -- maybe a 1 year overview of World History + 1 year of American History. Or a 2-year World History program + 1 year of American History --

Lori D. - see my response above.  We will be doing the history progression required by many colleges :-).  They were going to be doing IB so I am actually following a lot of that for our choices, including science.  

I hadn't thought about Political Science?!?!

Am I able to spend time during a summer doing Economics or Government and just making sure we do all the work and spend the allotted number of hours for a credit?  Or...can I start classes this summer and spread them out through the year?  We are homebodies by nature, but they will be out 3 days a week for 2 classes, 1 day a week for regular volunteering at the library, and swim practice 6 days a week for 2 hours a day.  They are also hoping to join the homeschool National Honor Society so that will take time too.  They are both capable, but I don't want to overwhelm them anymore this first year :-).

 

[Mbelle]

13 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

  I am hoping to do an AP/Honors Human Geography class locally next year.

Dd did this in 9th grade.  It was her one local class that year.  I don't know that she loved everything about the class itself, but the course was fascinating and perfect for her and we got to have lots of home conversations about it.  

[mlktwins]

Just now, Mbelle said:

Dd did this in 9th grade.  It was her one local class that year.  I don't know that she loved everything about the class itself, but the course was fascinating and perfect for her and we got to have lots of home conversations about it.  

The teacher for the Human Geography class is awesome.  She is teaching AP/Honors Modern History this year, but we are already doing Honors Biology and they were a little freaked about the work load with both of those (if we did the history too) plus Spanish.  I don't blame them.  I was hoping to do the Modern History next year, but she will be teaching the Human Geography.  

[Lori D.]

5 hours ago, mlktwins said:

Responded to your questions in red above :-).

Lori D. - LLLOTR is very much on the table for next year along with Windows to the World.  I do want to look at the IEW table though and look through their stuff in person.  I also have WWS already, but they don't love the program.  They don't love writing though and I don't think it will matter what I pick 😞.  They can write; they just don't like to do it.  They do know that will be a major focus for the next 4 years though!  I need to add writing if we do Lord of the Rings + Windows to the World, correct?

LLftLotR only has writing assignment ideas -- no teaching of writing, no exercises, no grading rubrics. Windows to the World is mostly about literary analysis & literary elements, with a good unit on how to write a literary analysis essay, and then some exercises that involve writing, plus some writing assignments for writing about the short stories studied.

If you don't need a ton of direct writing instruction, that would give you plenty of writing assignments to cover the year for the Writing portion of the credit. If you DO need/want more writing instruction and guidance than that, then consider doing WWS, since that has worked for you. Or, possibly consider doing some of the 1-year program of The Power In Your Hands while doing LLftLotR -- it covers all kinds of types of writing, is written to the student, and can be done as units plugged in here and there over more than 1 year.

5 hours ago, mlktwins said:

We do need to work more on literary elements/literary analysis and literature topics.  I had Figuratively Speaking with the short stories lined up for this past year, but we didn't get to it.  We school through summer thought so I'm hoping to start working our way through that now...

Windows to the World will help with that. But yes, if you can do Figuratively Speaking casually this summer, that will help with familiarity of literary elements and discussing literature for next year. (:D

5 hours ago, mlktwins said:

We did a year of EIW in elementary.  It was fine, but we didn't like the videos... I have... Elegant Essay... I know they don't like WWS, but it gets done?!?!?...
...I would like to do writing at home for 9th and will probably outsource the rest of the years.

Maybe look at The Power in Your Hands? Or, just go with WWS since it's what gets done? And either would work as an at-home program

5 hours ago, mlktwins said:

...I hadn't thought about Political Science?!?!

I wouldn't worry about Pol.Sci. -- or any of the other less common Soc. Studies courses -- unless DSs express a high interest, or if it looks like it will be a good support for what one of your DSs wants to do in college and for a career. And you probably won't see that until later in high school. 😉

5 hours ago, mlktwins said:

...Am I able to spend time during a summer doing Economics or Government and just making sure we do all the work and spend the allotted number of hours for a credit?  Or...can I start classes this summer and spread them out through the year? 

Sure! Nothing requires that a credit has to be done only in the year you start it. Some people accumulate a 1 credit course (say, an Elective, or Fine Arts, or other subject) by doing 1/2 in each of 2 years. Or 1/4 credit in each of 4 years. I had a non-STEM DS#2, so we spread out 3.5 Science credits over 4 years to work at his pace.

One way to get another REALLY fantastic extracurricular in there that can also cover the legislative part of a Gov't credit is to do YMCA Youth in Gov't (SUPER for public speaking and debate practice as well!), or Teen Pact. Then you could do the remaining topics for a 0.5 credit of Gov't whenever you like.

5 hours ago, mlktwins said:

...We will be doing the history progression required by many colleges :-).

 

5 hours ago, mlktwins said:

We've done all 4 years of SOTW... They did US history for middle school... We are all tired of US History -- LOL.  We also did some unit studies on elections, justice, etc.

So, it looks like this is your line-up for this year?

credits
1 credit = English: ? -- at home
1 credit = Math: Geometry -- at home
1 credit = Science: Honors Biology -- outsourced/co-op
1 credit = Social Studies: ? -- at home
1 credit = Foreign Language: Spanish -- outsourced/co-op
1 credit = Elective: PE: Swimming -- outsourced
6 credits = total

extracurriculars
- library volunteering
- swimming
- National Honors Society

And it sounds like you are considering these as your Social Studies credits?
1 credit = History at home
1 credit = AP/Honors Human Geography
1 credit = American History + Virginia History
1 credit = 0.5 credit Gov't + 0.5 credit Econ

Since you're all burned out on History, or at least American History right now, and since you really like the teacher who does the Honors Human Geography and Honors Modern History, you might consider the following for 9th grade:

- entirely skip Social Studies (for 9th grade) and jump in later in high school with that teacher for her Geography and Modern History classes -- and double up on Social Studies credits in a later year of high school to get all 4 credits done
- OR -- do Gov't and Econ (so not doing History for a year) in 9th grade, and jump in later in high school with that teacher for her Geography and Modern History classes, and fit in American History + Virginia History in the remaining year of high school when that teacher is doing one of the classes you've already done, or after you've already done both of her classes

I will just note that Econ can be a bit abstract and it touches on both nat'l and internat'l policies, so it can be more comprehensible to an older student, and to the student who has some World and US history under their belt... But nothing saying you can't use the 0.5 credit of Econ as a "preview of coming attractions" for later Soc. Studies credits...

You might look at the Notgrass materials for American History, Economics, and Government while you're at the conference -- Christian worldview, and uses primary source documents with each. Or, the Great Courses: Economics lecture series by Timothy Taylor is 36 30-minute lectures (so, 18 hours total); we did that and added in a short book or two on Economics topics, plus a personal finance resource and called that our 0.5 credit of Econ. We did the Econ lectures 2x/week -- day 1, we used the GC as practice for note-taking while listening to a lecture, and then on day 2, I had DSs study their notes and take a quick quiz I created on that previous lecture.

Just rambling now... ENJOY browsing the vendors, and hope you find everything that's a perfect fit for your family for next year! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Lori D.

[CAtoVA]

Following as I will be at the HEAV  convention as well and I am doing my research now.......

[CAtoVA]

Fwiw, my ninth grade DS (now rising 10th) did the second half of World History at our co-op using the Spielvogel text. (In 8th he took the high school 9th grade Ancient/Medieval World History also with Spielvogel; he's ahead in high school credits for social studies/history). For writing he took Open Tent's online All About Essays class which is very close to IEW levels B Continuation and IEW Level C. The class focused on writing/practicing lots of different types of essays —expository, persuasive, comparison/contrast, analytical and narrative. (In 8th grade, with me, my DS did IEW SWI B and some of IEW B Continuation.)

For literature (with me) we did a combination of things: BJU 9th grade Fundamentals of Literature book, as a "spine",  short stories using various resources including Figuratively Speaking, and novel studies using Progeny Press guides and/or guides from teacherspayteachers as "jumping off" points. I am still hoping to get to a poetry study this month after testing is over. I plan to use teacherspayteachers resources for that.

For vocabulary this year my DS used Sadlier's 9th grade workbook (Level D). Grammar was CLE and also diagramming/grammar exercises in Latin I.

Edited June 3, 2019 by CAtoVA