SAT Subject Tests Pointless?

[creekland]

Creekland, I have no idea why or even if most homeschoolers teach to the test or care about testing. We never did tests in our homeschooling journey until we started focusing on college not chapter tests or even math tests. I saw they knew something and moved on or tackled the same info a different way if they weren't getting it, in subjects like math. Honestly though we have ZERO options in our state (Alaska) so everything is going to be $$$$$$$$$ which is something my son has little of. Also undergraduate nuclear engineering degrees are at a smaller number of schools than your average degree so between that and money his options seem to be narrowing fast. I'm concerned not about testing in itself except in regards to it not limiting his options. Money will do a good job of that anyway.

 

Put all of my posts together though.  We didn't totally eschew testing.  My guys had high ACTs (and they prepped for them) and middle son added two AP tests in different areas.  Then he also had two DE As in respectable + different courses. (He also had a third in English prior to being accepted.)  He showed that he had an overall great foundation, plus more specifics in different areas.

 

What we didn't do was have him take AP tests in every area he could have (Calc, Bio, Chem, both English exams, American History) and he didn't need any SAT Subject tests.  According to admissions folks (not Hive folks) he didn't need any with what he had.  They were correct.  ;)

 

We also didn't do any course descriptions or listings of textbooks, etc.  I was told course descriptions were only needed if we had done any course that wasn't self-explanatory from the title.  This means Pre-Calc was fine, but if I had said 10th Grade Math I should have explained it.

 

We've always marched to our own drummer, but part of that was looking at what my kid wanted to do, some places he might want to do it, and e-mailing their admissions (as his Guidance Counselor) asking for their advice when given specifics, then following it.

 

If you're from Alaska and looking at middle or eastern US schools, you'll have a nice hook for both admissions and finances (many schools want to attract students from all 50 states).  Even so, if you have ideas of places he might like, you can do just what any guidance counselor can do and contact admissions to see the best way to "guide" your student.

 

Hive advice is broad, but like statistics, it doesn't apply 100% to any individual (as was pointed out with CA residents needing the test results to show their state their education was fine - PA doesn't require that at all).

 

The time my guys didn't spend prepping for other tests we spent on getting cool ECs in.  ;)  (Travel, scuba, their Graduation Projects, work with hubby, chess, etc.)

 

Overall, there's nothing wrong with SAT Subject tests - and some schools require them if one has opted for the SAT vs the ACT - but for many students they just aren't needed IME.  I feel absolutely no wishful thinking that my kids had done more testing in their high school years*, but I also don't feel we did too little.  I'm quite pleased with how things worked out.

 

* Should note that the first couple of years I wished my guy had taken the AP Bio test because I know he would have easily gotten a 5 and there was a freshman course at his school he could only get into (his year) with a 5 on the test.  I felt badly that I messed up his chances.  However, since then he's told me he's glad he didn't get in that class as they really didn't do anything more than his own class did except read more papers.  He could read those papers on his own without deadlines and extra pressure from it, so really, even that worked out nigh onto perfect for him.  (PHEW!)

[frogger]

I wasn't saying you were anti-testing completely just answering the question though I think it was not really directed at me. I like your balance.

 

It's of course easier to know if you struck the right balance after the fact. Hopefully, I'll say the same. 🙂

[Grantmom]

 

 He did take the Chem test and probably didn't study for it near enough.  He did ok on his Chem test (720) but not for an ultra competitive school. He might do better on a physics test but that won't change where he applies to anyway. Besides he wants to take physics his Senior year so he can take it at the college as a calc. based course so he won't have even finished his class before he needs to start turning in college applications anyway. The only other ones I'm sure that engineering departments would care about is perhaps the Physics or Math 2. I guess he would be ready for Math 2 in time so that is an option though the curve on that is crazy.

 

 

 

I was also going to say that I thought a 720 on the Chem SAT was a really good score!

 

Honestly, I think it's hard to know.  My main goal was that I didn't want to close any doors.  I didn't want anything I had done, or neglected to do, be the reason that a door was no longer open for him.  We were late to the game when it comes to being in that testing mindset, but once DS started talking about schools he would like to attend, and once we started looking at them closely, I felt like testing was one of those things that did show outside validation for homeschool transcripts.  Even if you aren't applying to the tippy top Ivies.  A lot of schools in our region of the East Coast recommend SAT 2s or require them for homeschoolers, and I wouldn't call those the tippy top.

 

Now, what that actually means, I still don't know.  I haven't been able to find statistics on how many or score range of SAT2 scores on most schools.  Is there a place where those are published?  I don't see them in the Common Data Sets.  Most of these more selective schools all seem to say some variation of the sentiment that your scores are not the only part of the picture that counts, that they look at more than that, and that every year they turn down students with perfect or near-perfect scores.  However, they also say that they want you to succeed at their school, and so they do look at test scores and grades to be sure you are capable of handling the level of rigor at their school.  They may think you are awesome, but they don't want you to fail out first semester of your freshman year.  So if they don't think you are ready for that, and don't have a certain base level of knowledge, they are not going to offer you a spot.  So, what does that mean?  They all say they don't have a cutoff point, but clearly at some point they do.  There is going to be some level below which your application won't make it out of that first pile. 

 

Now, I firmly, 100% believe that fit is more important than the brand name of a school, and that your education is what you make of it, and that there are a lot of really amazing schools at which you can get a terrific education.  But, if there is something specific you want, like a great engineering school, or a great music program, then those spots are going to be more competitive.  A lot of schools require or recommend them, so for us, we are doing them, so that we have them if we need them.

 

So it could be useless but it may be important.   :001_smile: I guess the " just in case" wins out. 

 

From everything I looked at it, it seemed mostly super selective schools were looking at it and the average score they accepted was really high anyway so it is interesting to know these other details. 

 

I don't know what "really high" means, to be honest, because I thought 720 on Chem was high!  But maybe I am wrong!  :) 

[catz]

 

I think perhaps for some schools, it might make homeschool transcripts look stronger, providing verification of sorts, in addition to or instead of AP or DE.

 

:iagree: This is what I think.  As a homeschooler, it's nice to have some verification of a strong ACT or SAT score whether it be dual enrollment classes, AP testing, or SAT subject tests.  I think it can be either/or and the configuration you chose doesn't matter so much. 

 

I know someone accepted into Harvard the last few years and she just did a number of AP classes.  Don't get me wrong, she's an amazing student and very self motivated.  She just didn't jump through a bunch of testing hoops.  She had a qualifying ACT score and a number of strong AP scores.  (and no doubt a beautiful essay and a boat load of focused EC activities/leadership).

[Guest2]

A few of the flagship schools in Texas do award credit for certain SAT subject scores. https://learningsciences.utexas.edu/studenttesting/exams?field_subject_area_tid=All&field_exam_type_tid=5&combine=

 

This isn't helpful for OP as the physics credit is for two algebra based classes,which are not the physics classes required for engineering. If I had really prepped my daughter(Psychology major )having 8 credits of science would have been wonderful ( Psych majors need 21 science credits). I haven't heard of other schools doing this.

[Liza Q]

Two of the colleges we considered wanted SAT Subject Tests. SUNY Stonybrook strongly recommends some for homeschoolers and Cooper Union requires two from all applicants. We are still open to my son transferring to one of these after 2 years, though, and apparently they would still be needed even if he were to transfer. So we are considering the subject tests fora "just maybe future application".....very annoying. Still not sure what we will do.