Phonics overkill? (LOE)

[homeschoolwarrior]

Can you all help me get a handle on phonics and learning to read/spell? I don't have a good overall understanding of phonics and language arts in general. I am not a great speller but fairly good reader. Before teaching my kids, I had no clue about phonograms and rules. So, my lack of knowledge and skill is making this tricky for me. I have been doing Logic of English Foundations with our kiddos and it is starting to seem overwhelming. We are nearing the end of level C and we are both having trouble remembering all the rules and phonograms, and we still have a lot left to learn. I am beginning to wonder how this works long term. What good is learning all of this if in ten years he won't remember any of it? I know a lot of programs teach less phonograms/rules and more sight words. I'm starting to wonder if that approach is better. Yet, I've always struggled with spelling and that is definitely not what I want for my kids. Any thoughts? How does the in depth phonics programs work long term with forgetting rules and phonograms as they get older? Is there risk of it overwhelming the kids and backfiring?

 

Thanks for any thoughts!

[Little Blue House]

I assume you completed LOE A-B before C, correct? Book D is a helpful follow up to A-C because it reviews the content from A-C and focuses on reading fluency.

 

It's natural to wonder if all the info will sink in and be useful someday. By the end of book C all phonograms have been introduced and quite a few spelling rules. It's a lot to keep track of. They learn so much in these three books. I think the key to LOE is to not expect mastery or deep understanding at the grammar stage. With spelling, if you are teaching your child to spell with phonograms and spelling rules, there will be logic stage thinking required to synthesize the "what" and the "why." Don't take the "why" too far with your young student. I took the lead of my child and pulled back when it seemed he was getting overwhelmed. I didn't expect my child to remember everything or master all of the concepts. I gave prompts and help as often as needed. Does that make sense? Taking the "why" too far with grammar stage students can lead to overkill  or frustration because the student doesn't have the logic level skills necessary to make all of the connections on their own. This takes time, practice, and readiness. The mastery chart in each review section is very helpful in setting right expectations of which concepts should be mastered before moving on to the next lesson. 

 

I think where LOE really shines is with the spelling analysis. Most spelling programs don't adequately cover studying words and their spelling. Spelling analysis is where you see all the parts work together as you break down a word by syllable and phonogram, and then study its spelling and apply the rules. Spelling analysis is also a great visual tool as you see phonograms underlined and sounds marked. I liked using tiles with my child so he could see and feel chunks of the words. I catch myself doing spelling analysis in my head on tough words I encounter in my reading. It's such a great tool! In fact, this is what we are working towards -- equipping our kids with skills and tools for a lifetime of reading and writing. If you continue spelling analysis your student won't get to a point where they forget the phonograms and rules because they are consistently using them to analyze words. 

 

I think phonics and spelling overkill happens when parents don't meet the needs of their student by slowing down, speeding up, or providing help. Depending on your child, it may be a good time for a break after book C?? You could take time to read together and review the phonograms until you're ready for book D. Or, skip book D and begin spelling dictation. You might want to call the LOE office. They are very helpful and may have some ideas for you. Hope this is helpful! 

 

[Ellie]

Can you all help me get a handle on phonics and learning to read/spell? I don't have a good overall understanding of phonics and language arts in general. I am not a great speller but fairly good reader. Before teaching my kids, I had no clue about phonograms and rules. So, my lack of knowledge and skill is making this tricky for me. I have been doing Logic of English Foundations with our kiddos and it is starting to seem overwhelming. We are nearing the end of level C and we are both having trouble remembering all the rules and phonograms, and we still have a lot left to learn. I am beginning to wonder how this works long term. What good is learning all of this if in ten years he won't remember any of it? I know a lot of programs teach less phonograms/rules and more sight words. I'm starting to wonder if that approach is better. Yet, I've always struggled with spelling and that is definitely not what I want for my kids. Any thoughts? How does the in depth phonics programs work long term with forgetting rules and phonograms as they get older? Is there risk of it overwhelming the kids and backfiring?

 

Thanks for any thoughts!

 

Spalding. I am sure that LOE has its roots in Spalding. But Spalding has separate lessons: the spelling lesson, the grammar lesson, the writing lesson, the reading lesson. Children learn to read and spell (and penmanship) in the spelling lesson. You can teach grammar and writing and reading (which is different from learning to read) if you want to; most people like to break up the day, though, by using different materials for those. There's one manual--the Writing Road to Reading--used for all ages and levels and everything. Rules taught when they are needed, in context.

[Bluegoat]

I haven't used LOE, but I did find with teaching reading sometimes it was very helpful to take a bit of a break.  We would keep practicing with appropriate level books, but no new lessons.  It always seemd like the break gave things a chance to percolate a little, and just the change of pace was nice.  I think for kids, it can start to seem like "reading" is all these lessons, with no actual reading - as if you are learning about colour theory and brush-strokes without painting any pictures just for the sake of it.

 

I've found it works well for me to incorporate these breaks into times when there are other things going on - summer, lead up to Christmas, and so on.  I often don't have as regular a schedule then, anyway, so lessons are harder to be consistent with.  Kind of kills two birds with one stone.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Bluegoat

[Pistachio mom]

One thing about phonics, is that you do not have to learn all of it. A student proceeds from letter sounds, to a vowel plus a consonant, then onto some easy 3 and 4 letter words until the maturity of blending kicks in. Learning phonograms at this point is super helpful.  Then you add in long vowel words -- while all along teaching appropriate sight words.

 

I am not familiar with LOE, I have heard good things about Barton for struggling learners.  Honestly, I do think you can "overkill" the phonics if you spend more time on teaching the systematic phonics than you do on real reading. Fluency starts happening towards the end of 1st and 2nd grade for some, others need another year. One of my children could not remember the phonics rules, so I had to teach the phonogram sounds written overtop of pictures or other visual clues that helped her "get it."

 

You might consider looking at BJ Press Phonics review which is a workbook tailored for this stage of building fluency. If you break up your reading time with 1/3 time systematic phonics + sight work review and then the other 2/3 of your time developing a love of reading this might work.  I have also used Alpha Phonics to drill particular spelling patterns. We even made construction paper books about family members and pets to give practice to these words from the systematic practice time.  The reading sets from Memoria Press have also been a help to me. Their first grade set was books like Little Bear, Blueberries for Sal, and other classic books. The Arnold Lobel Frog and Toad series was also fun. Even board books from earlier years, to practice reading helped in this fluency stage. For one of  my children who needed extra practice at 2nd grade, I opted for the BF history through literature to allow for extra time.

 

The point?  As parents, we want to teach a love for reading by teaching well. But , if the teaching is so much phonics drilling that the joy is lost, then you might need to adapt your approach. Mem Fox, the Australian author, also has some books about teaching reading. I forget the title, but my library had it on audio which I listened to in the car several years ago. I just pasted it in below, even thought the title is about reading aloud, it still was a help.

 

http://www.bjupress.com/product/228296

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=alpha-phonics&tag=geminimobiles-20&index=aps&hvadid=22379090&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_51uthm63cg_e

https://www.memoriapress.com/curriculum/literature-and-poetry/storytime-treasures/

https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Magic-Children-Change-Forever/dp/0156035103/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1499552014&sr=8-6&keywords=mem+fox

http://bfbooks.com/Literature-Packs/Early-American-History-Packs

Edited July 8, 2017 by Pistachio mom

[Pistachio mom]

I agree with the post above about breaks. Sometimes even reading easy books was helpful in building confidence. Then, when I was least expecting it, a quantum leap in learning would happen. Learning to read is not always linear in progress, but progress will happen with diligence.

 

The right brain teaching information on Dianne Craft's website also helped me adapt reading for some of my children who could not remember the rules. Not all of the link below will apply to you, but it is a lot of information that might be a help to skim through.

 

http://www.diannecraft.org/language-arts-reading-program/

 

Spelling programs that are organized by phonogram patterns can support what you are doing with reading. I use BJ Press Spelling because of the incremental approach. (This is Christian perspective) Even in 5th and 6th grades, the spelling continues to reinforce very useful patterns that we see in words all the time. I'm sure many programs so this. I just have experience with this particular one.

 

Best of luck as you think through this. :)

Edited July 9, 2017 by Pistachio mom