Cottage Press or ELTL for 2nd?

[PineFarmMom]

First, CP:  I have looked at samples and looked for reviews for CP.  There aren't many reviews out there.  I love the looks of this for LA and think it would be a good fit for my upcoming 2nd grade son.  He is my 5th of 5, and part of me just wants to do something new and more CMish. We have always done more traditional and classical curricula. I've been classical for a while and feel this or ELTL would be a breath of fresh air.  I do NOT like the price tag, especially compared to ELTL.  It appears to me that it would be $80 for a year of language arts.  The plus is that it would be every aspect of LA with the addition of Nature (which would help me so much), and art study.  Would it be feasible to take the two primer years, all 6 books (autumn, winter, spring x2) and spread them over 3 years instead of 2?  This would take him from 2nd-4th.  It would help my feelings about the price of it all.

 

ELTL:  I like the looks of it but not as much as I do CP.  I at least am finding more reviews of it that CP.  I do think it looks good and if I can't find a lot of reasons to pick CP, the price difference will turn me towards ELTL.

 

I'd like opinions.  FTR, we use TOG for history, lit, geog, and church history/worldview.  I'm willing to drastically reduce the amount of lit we do through TOG.  My 2nd grader would love the CM type literature.  

 

 

[nixpix5]

I have both on my shelf right now because I was planning on using ELTL with my first graders and CPP1 with my second grader. After getting them here and looking through them I decided to do ELTL with everybody next year. My twins who will be in 1st are doing ELTL 1 and my soon to be 2nd grader will do ELTL 2. Once I had them in hand I fell in love with them. I like the pacing, I love the book choices, I love that it is 3 days a week, I love the grammar, narration, art study and copy work. I feel like it is what's good about FLL and WWE but with the wonderful books. I am so excited to get started that I am giddy. I did decide to pick up a few MP lit guides to go along with some of the ELTL 2 books just for deeper discussions but I am thrilled. It doesn't cover spelling though so that would be a separate program.

 

CPP1 looks good too and I think I will use it with my twins next year. I just didn't think my daughter would love it as much as ELTL.

[Insertcreativenamehere]

Have you looked at The Good and the Beautiful? I think it would fit many of your criteria and it's free for the download, although many purchase the printed version because even that is so reasonably priced. 

[PineFarmMom]

Thanks for the responses.  I really like hearing that about ELTL.  It is so much more affordable than CP.  The only thing missing, in my mind, would be nature study.  Does anyone know of a resource for nature study that would offer a simple, once-per-week handholding?  I have attempted nature study for years.  That was my draw to CP, that it would say "Do this."

 

About the Good and the Beautiful, it really does look good.  I have two issues with it, though.  One may not be an issue, but I don't see anywhere that it leads the child through the progym.  That is something that drew me to both of the other two.  I tried CAP with my older boys and liked it to a degree but it just didn't work.  I was thinking ELTL or CP would be all-inclusive as well as take them through the progym, and I like that.  My second issue is that it is LDS.  I feel cautious about using something by someone whose views are so contrary to my own.  I feel it would come out in the text in some manner and I'd rather just not go that route.  Thanks for the idea though.  It really does look good!

[Guest]

ELTL is not a progym program, per se. It includes "progymnasmata style exercises" in upper grades, but not in 2nd.

 

There is absolutely zero LDS doctrine in G&B.

 

The nature study in CP is extremely basic. So is spelling.

 

I've used all three, so I thought I'd throw these comments out there. They are all great programs!

 

 

Edited June 5, 2017 by OKBud

[PineFarmMom]

ELTL is not a progym program, per se. It includes "progymnasmata style exercises" in upper grades, but not in 2nd.

 

There is absolutely zero LDS doctrine in G&B.

 

The nature study in CP is extremely basic. So is spelling.

 

I've used all three, so I thought I'd throw these comments out there. They are all great programs!

Ok.  Thanks for this!!  That is helpful.  My big pull is the mixing of CM and classical.  I definitely like the free part of G&B!!  So is the progym more interwoven in CP?  Even basic nature study is enough to give me the nudge I need right now.  Is the spelling so basic that I would want another program?  We have done SWO for years and years (like I think 16 years, since my almost college graduate started 1st! ha).  I like it because I know it, but sometimes question if it's that helpful.  I have had natural spellers so far who often go along acing the pretests in SWO.  I don't even know if it would help a poor speller.  I just did it to be doing spelling and it was never broke, so I didn't fix it.  So I'm basically liking the light spelling that appears to be in some of these more CM friendly curricula.  

 

My leaning is still more towards doing CP Primers 1 & 2 in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, but I'm not sure.  It may be hard for me.  My older kids always did R&S so they had rigorous grammar from a young age!!  

 

Ok.  Of those three, which one is your favorite and why?

[Insertcreativenamehere]

FYI, there is a fantastic nature study notebook from the G&B ... I'm using it today with my 2nd grader. :)

 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[MDL]

Bah! I used ELTL 1 for my 1st grader this year and it was generally light and fun. His handwriting improvement has blown me away! (I did get him some colored, erasable markers from Japan that sparked him too) I did not enjoy reading The Jungle Book, Just So Stories or Pinocchio...basically half the year. I did use audiobooks for some of those, but it felt like a cheat on my part...

 

I was planning to continue with level 2, but now I'm looking at these other options. Ugh! So many wonderful choices, it's a blessing and a curse!

 

He is reading at 5th grade level, and we use AAS.

 

 

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[Guest]

Ok.  Thanks for this!!  That is helpful.  My big pull is the mixing of CM and classical.  I definitely like the free part of G&B!!  So is the progym more interwoven in CP?  Even basic nature study is enough to give me the nudge I need right now.  Is the spelling so basic that I would want another program?  We have done SWO for years and years (like I think 16 years, since my almost college graduate started 1st! ha).  I like it because I know it, but sometimes question if it's that helpful.  I have had natural spellers so far who often go along acing the pretests in SWO.  I don't even know if it would help a poor speller.  I just did it to be doing spelling and it was never broke, so I didn't fix it.  So I'm basically liking the light spelling that appears to be in some of these more CM friendly curricula.  

 

My leaning is still more towards doing CP Primers 1 & 2 in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, but I'm not sure.  It may be hard for me.  My older kids always did R&S so they had rigorous grammar from a young age!!  

 

Ok.  Of those three, which one is your favorite and why?

 

If you're on board with spelling with dictation you'll be fine any way you go because it literally take ten minutes to turn any passage found anywhere into a dictation exercise! So even if you need more than what is in any given program, it's a moot point.

 

I have the free G&B downloads but they are effectively worthless to me. I bought the paper versions. So convoluted to print and I have ZERO patience for anything that isn't simply "print" and it comes out perfect. I'm sure you're better than me on this point LOL (because ev-er-y-one is) so also probably a moot point.

 

Could I muddle the waters ANY further?!

 

My least favorite if ELTL. The books take so long to get through and I'd just rather hav my kids spend their reading time with the wonderful books *I* picked out for them. It's a lovely wonderful program that will  get you where you want to go, it just isn't for our family.

 

The CP primer series is beautifully done. Leaves lots of time for reading. Lots of drawing pages (related to the reading and poetry presented in the WB) which one of my kids loved. For a student who will learn regardless of what you put in front of them, it's spot-on wonderful perfect. I agree with the pp who wished they'd put in elementary lines for writing, but that wasn't a huge problem here by any stretch. The grammar info was too spread out for my middle kid. He would do the exercises, but not remember any of it. Same problem for him with ELTL. Another kid, it was no problem, two years later he still remembers it.

 

Could I muddy the waters any more?! Salty Tribe on youtube has a long video overview of G&B, it really is wonderfully done. The art and geography is a great boon. Very active facebook group.

 

They are all great. Pick the one you like the best is my advice :laugh:

Edited June 5, 2017 by OKBud

[sarahrb]

I used ELTL 1 with my first grader as well, and I hated Pinocchio :).  Fortunately (?) we read at least half that book when everyone had the flu, so we got it on Librivox with a wonderful narrator and that helped us get through it.  My son loved it (he likes crazy/silly stories) and got the moral lesson of it, so I guess that's good.

 

Bah! I used ELTL 1 for my 1st grader this year and it was generally light and fun. His handwriting improvement has blown me away! (I did get him some colored, erasable markers from Japan that sparked him too) I did not enjoy reading The Jungle Book, Just So Stories or Pinocchio...basically half the year. I did use audiobooks for some of those, but it felt like a cheat on my part...

I was planning to continue with level 2, but now I'm looking at these other options. Ugh! So many wonderful choices, it's a blessing and a curse!

He is reading at 5th grade level, and we use AAS.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Also, OP, for what it's worth, you know the ELTL isn't necessary grade leveled.  I'm sticking with ELTL 2 for next year (although you got me to look at CPP - very pretty!), but am wondering if the grammar will be a lot for my active kiddo.  If it is, I may just slow down and use ELTL for 2 years (author says it's fine that way on her site).  We'll see how it goes.

[sarahrb]

I see what you mean about picking your own readings.  We have skipped some of the poetry and fables in Level 1, tbh.  I've liked the classic readings scheduled in Level 1 (and Level 2 looks good too) because even though I really want to read with my kids, having it scheduled into our curriculum makes it happen at my house.  YMMV.

 

If you're on board with spelling with dictation you'll be fine any way you go because it literally take ten minutes to turn any passage found anywhere into a dictation exercise! So even if you need more than what is in any given program, it's a moot point.

 

I have the free G&B downloads but they are effectively worthless to me. I bought the paper versions. So convoluted to print and I have ZERO patience for anything that isn't simply "print" and it comes out perfect. I'm sure you're better than me on this point LOL (because ev-er-y-one is) so also probably a moot point.

 

Could I muddle the waters ANY further?!

 

My least favorite if ELTL. The books take so long to get through and I'd just rather hav my kids spend their reading time with the wonderful books *I* picked out for them. It's a lovely wonderful program that will  get you where you want to go, it just isn't for our family.

 

The CP primer series is beautifully done. Leaves lots of time for reading. Lots of drawing pages (related to the reading and poetry presented in the WB) which one of my kids loved. For a student who will learn regardless of what you put in front of them, it's spot-on wonderful perfect. I agree with the pp who wished they'd put in elementary lines for writing, but that wasn't a huge problem here by any stretch. The grammar info was too spread out for my middle kid. He would do the exercises, but not remember any of it. Same problem for him with ELTL. Another kid, it was no problem, two years later he still remembers it.

 

Could I muddy the waters any more?! Salty Tribe on youtube has a long video overview of G&B, it really is wonderfully done. The art and geography is a great boon. Very active facebook group.

 

They are all great. Pick the one you like the best is my advice :laugh:

 

[ExcitedMama]

I only know ELTL but we love it here. It has been slower than I thought it would be since there are scheduled readings but I think that's actually been good. I am not a CM type at all and had never heard of slow readings before but that's what the author recommends. The lit for 1 is definitely choices I wouldn't have made but I think that's good because we never would have read it otherwise. DS loved Beatrix Potter, Just So Stories and is loving Pinocchio now. He enjoys the Aesop's Fable and retelling me the moral. I don't think either of us are poetry people and he has hated every impressionist painting but they make for good discussions and exposure I would not have been good about providing. The copywork is great about punctuations and exposure to commas and quotation marks. For some reason his handwriting is always his best in the copybook. I ordered 2 and was thumbing through it and I'm excited about reading more classic books that I've never read. I highly recommend it.

[nixpix5]

I only know ELTL but we love it here. It has been slower than I thought it would be since there are scheduled readings but I think that's actually been good. I am not a CM type at all and had never heard of slow readings before but that's what the author recommends. The lit for 1 is definitely choices I wouldn't have made but I think that's good because we never would have read it otherwise. DS loved Beatrix Potter, Just So Stories and is loving Pinocchio now. He enjoys the Aesop's Fable and retelling me the moral. I don't think either of us are poetry people and he has hated every impressionist painting but they make for good discussions and exposure I would not have been good about providing. The copywork is great about punctuations and exposure to commas and quotation marks. For some reason his handwriting is always his best in the copybook. I ordered 2 and was thumbing through it and I'm excited about reading more classic books that I've never read. I highly recommend it.

This is great info! I am hoping for the same experience when we do ELTL next year.

 

CPP1 looks nice but for us, we were Abeka language 1 users for phonics and all of CPP1 just goes back over Abeka 1 stuff. There really isn't much grammar per se to it. Just alot of making things plural, adding basic suffixes etc. Which is great for those who haven't used Abeka but if someone has I wouldn't recommend CPP.

[beka87]

I haven't used ELTL, though I've looked at a lot of samples.  I am a big fan of CP, however, so I can tell you about that :).  I have used Primer One, Primer Two, and will be starting Fable and Song in August.  I think that

1)additional spelling may or may not be necessary depending on the child

2)while the grammar is basic, it is plenty for the age of the children each course is recommended for - it reviews the concepts taught and allows for practice both within the copy book selections and in original sentences and is something easily reinforced by the teacher in other subjects

3)the nature study is lovely and really breaks up the week of solid LA

4)picture study is well done and easy to implement

5)you can definitely spread out the primer series if you desire to do so 

6)it's worth the price.:)

 

Really, though, I don't think you can do much better than CP for a happy medium between classical and CM, covering all your LA, in a program that is easy to pace out the way you wish, with literature and poetry selections that are both beautiful and age appropriate, full of resources that one can find online for free in many instances, and is pretty to look at to boot. ;)  The program is logically laid out and arranged and easy to use.  I'm very, very happy I decided to give it a try.

[kesmom]

CP Primer One was kind of a flop for us this year. My 2nd grader hadn't had prior spelling instruction and definitely couldn't manage the spelling in the book. (I know they recommend using a separate spelling program - I just think the spelling in the first book was way above a beginner level.)

 

I really wanted to like CP but it just wasn't a great fit for this child.