Resources for right-brained HIGH SCHOOLERS?

[AimeeM]

If you've read Unicorns Are Real, Right Brain Children in a Left Brain World, or anything similar, AND you have a very visual, very right-brained, 2E high schooler, how did you apply (if at all) any of the techniques from those books to their high school studies? I took a lot away from the books with regards to my two younger children and their special needs -- but I'm having a harder time figuring out how to apply them to much more content-focuses, more difficult studies at the high school level. 

 

 

[Guest]

AimeeM, your kids, your right to try any methods you feel are right for them. I just want to point out to you that the left brain/ right brain theories have been debunked via studies. I won't link to any as this was not the purpose of your thread. Just mentioning it in case you want to look at what research says before you set your hopes on specific methods and approaches.

 

Not looking to debate, just cautioning you to perhaps research this topic more deeply.

 

And now I am walking away...

[PeterPan]

Ok, my dd is not technically 2E, only bright with ADHD, but I have read books in that vein and get what you mean. Also I worked in a college admissions dept evaluating transcripts, so I have some of that "other side" perspective on it. I can tell you what I've done, and you can see what you think. I think what you want to do is back up and think about what your goals are, where you're trying to go with this, where you want to be four years from now, and work backward. That sounds really obvious once you say it, but it's essential.

 

The next thing to remember is that homeschooling is already, by nature, a foreign beast to them. Your goal is to *translate* to the prospective employer or college or whomever, so that what you did makes sense to them in their lingo. You can do things that are really creative, out of the box, different, etc., so long as you TRANSLATE them into what the transcript reader understands.

 

Next thing is to question all your assumptions. For instance, you just said must be content-focused, must be difficult. I would question that. Really step back and go ok, is that NECESSARY? 

 

MOST people going into homeschooling high school get really intimidated. They think about transcripts and flip out and think they have to TOSS everything that had been working for them BEFORE. 

 

There's a difference between *stepping things up to help them grow to achieve their goals* and tossing entirely what had been working to change to another system that might not be a good fit.

 

There's also a really big tendency to "rat race" in high school, to do more, be faster, etc. to be more competitive. I decided my dd was not likely to win at a race like that. She's just not, not with her 30-something percentile processing speed and her DOER profile and difficulty with word retrieval and memorization. She's just not. She's the type who's fine in a 300 level class and struggles in a 100-level class with lots of memorization. She just is. 

 

So I had to be really, really honest about the rat race and the pressure to compete (on the hs boards, in life, for univ applications) and go ok, what things are necessary, what are not, what can be done differently. 

 

So, then we tell the truth. We want to be ethical and truthful in how we create our transcripts, yes. Absolutely. Lee Binz has done some terrific, spot-on workshops that you can sign up for for FREE, where she explains this stuff. She's exactly right! It fits what I saw as a transcript clerk and it helps you translate it well into homeschooling. You need to use the FLEXIBILITY of homeschooling to make an authentic approach that really fits your child.

 

Basically you're going to keep doing your thing, whatever has always worked, but you're going to step it up slightly. You're going to see where you want to be four years from now, see the progression, and step it up. And you're going to keep track of hours of everything they do, tally, and mark units.

 

You're going to be honest about what holes are acceptable and what holes are not. You might decide to leave some holes that you tackle with DE when they're at their senior year. This is not unheard of! I've got someone working with my dd on really right-brained, visual ways of studying memorization-driven material. That was a HOLE my dd had. It wouldn't have mattered a flip if I had made her struggle for 4 years with it, because I didn't happen to have that skill to teach her. Now, her senior year, she's spending time with someone with a phd in curriculum design, and that person HAS that skill and can show her how. It's brilliant and simple, all at the same time. Wish I had known! :)

 

And that's sort of your hindsight from me, that if you *find* people like that to connect them with who have those other tools and strategies, that can be good. Sometimes you'll come across a teacher or tutor or EF coach. That could be really good!

 

Just to be in the rat race, I wouldn't. I think they're better served having time to do something WELL, something they're passionate about and really into. I don't know what your dc is into, but make sure they get to do it.

 

Don't be afraid to do things in unusual ways. The first psych we used with dd told me to take things out of the box, WAY out of the box, like the farther out of the box the better. So if your dc's thing is cooking or art or whatever, then use that as a way to approach stuff. If they have a better modality, do it more. 

 

For us, it seemed to work well to have some cover your butt things and some things that were really interest-driven and sort of let it all merge. Like if they eventually get through some acceptable history spines and they do interest-driven things that connect to time periods, then you look back on it, tally those hours, and boom course. They don't have to be done all at the same time like oh, now we're doing US history. Kwim? You can collect hours across all four years. You're marking units= time spent, NOT credits=material covered. So spend time doing things, tally the hours, create courses that show how unique and interesting your dc is.

 

If you want to talk specifics, like what has worked in the past, what your dc's strengths or interests are, etc., feel free. Maybe we can give you ideas or help you ally your fears. Really, I think the more you lay aside the thought that you have to change and the more you keep going but maybe step it up, the better you'll be. Their brains didn't change just because the number changed. They are who they are. I think social skills (the ability to use your passion in a context) are important. Working on that will get you those recommendations you need for college entrance or job applications. Having structure is important so things that aren't preferred get done and don't get dropped. That's thinking with the end in mind. You know you'll want recs, so you've got to get out there in the community. You know you'll need a transcript that say math, that says history, so anything non-preferred has to have a path to make sure it gets done. You might have a list of goals specific to what fits them (ability to write, math scores, whatever). But beyond that, be flexible, be CREATIVE, and keep doing whatever was working.

Edited March 8, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[OneStepAtATime]

My daughter is very visually/graphically oriented.  She does much better in pictures than in words.  She is very articulate but when you involve words it is like she has to translate.  I found that if I could tap into the picture side then the word side functioned better.  She also struggles terribly with the concept of time.  She does not really feel the passage of time.  It took quite a while for me to realize that was one of the big reasons history was awful for her.  It never made much sense because she couldn't grasp time.  What she did discover she loves is art.  And when I signed her up for an Art History class, just basically shooting in the dark, she found she really liked history.  It just had to be tied to art.  Otherwise it had little meaning to her.  This semester is her 3rd semester taking an art history course.  It has helped so much to tie these two areas together.   She works hard for this class.

 

She also started taking a course that pairs art with geometry.  She loved geometry but the terms were confusing.  Those silly words again.  Then she has a class where the teacher ties those words to ART as they create all these geometric constructions.  Suddenly bisecting a triangle makes sense.  Now she can do more amazing abstract art while also getting a much stronger grasp of Euclidean Geometry.  She didn't need to simply work harder for High School classes, she needed to tackle the subjects from an angle that made more sense to her brain.

 

Does that make sense?  Gotta run but I will check in later... :)

[almondbutterandjelly]

Aimee,

 

My right brained, vsl dd is in 10th grade.  We use highlighters.  A lot.  I have every color they make (which sadly is not many), plus we have sharpies in every color of the rainbow.  

 

We have ended up doubling up on math, which works well for us.  So far, that has looked like this:

9th grade:  Algebra 1 (get partway through) (the result of switching textbooks at the semester and starting over with the new book)

10th grade:  Algebra 1 (finish the rest of Algebra.  Take the whole year to do it.)  Also do Geometry concurrently.  Plan on Geometry taking two years.

11th grade will include Geometry (last half, taking all year to do it) and Algebra 2 (first half, taking all year to do it).

12th grade will include Algebra 2 and PreCalculus (may only get halfway through PreCal)

 

I highlight every problem on her Mathusee worksheet before handing it to her to complete.  (Mathusee is the only math that doesn't make her cry, by the way.)  

 

I also have bought some cool manipulatives from Lakeshore Learning to bring a hands on component to stuff like area, perimeter, volume, angles, unit conversions, etc.

 

For history, she really like it when I read to her and she colors in one of the Dover books.  I'm a bit tired of that this year, so we've been taking turns reading aloud, every other paragraph.  I own the Horrible Histories DVDs, and she watches all the ones associated with our readings.  I make up tests occasionally (multiple choice, true/false, fill in the blank). For the tests, she gets a study sheet which contains everything I want her to know for the test.  She memorizes that.  

 

I typically allow two days of study before giving any test.  More if the test will be long.

 

For spelling/vocab, we use Abeka, heavily highlighted.  For the vocab, she has to do an index card for every word where she draws a picture for it, and also writes the word and definition on there.

 

Literature is lots of reading together.  Sometimes she reads to herself if I'm not really interested.  Sometimes I read and she colors.  I usually get the children's version of the tough stories by the way.  I'm of the opinion that understanding the plot is more important than reading the really hard words.  Sometimes we read together, every other paragraph.  As a for instance, I got the Real Reads version of Scarlet Letter, and we took turns.  (I had actually started having us read the "original" but the first were pages were so hard and boring, I couldn't stand it.  I know the plot is really interesting, so I bought the kids version.)

 

I also use a Globe Fearon Literature Book (Silver level) to cover some stuff and hit some literary terms.  Plus remind me of stuff I like.  We did a semester of American Lit, and I had forgotten how I adore Washington Irving.  So we read Rip Van Winkle and Sleepy Hollow in picture book versions illustrated by Will Moses.  We also watched the Disney Sleepy Hollow movie (the cartoon one).

 

I always watch movies first if we're going to do that, before reading the books, by the way.  It gives my dd a library of visual images in her head to associate with the books.  Last year during Ancients, we watched Troy with Brad Pitt before reading The Trojan War.  It was really helpful.  And, see, again, I used a younger version.  We did not read the adult translated version of the Iliad.

 

Plus she has to read 30 minutes from a book out of a tub of books.  I select books for the tub based on reading level or history association or just books I like.  She read the entire Laura Ingalls Wilder series this year, which I LOVE.  Now she loves it, too.  She didn't love it when she read it in 4th grade.

 

Science is highly visual.  Labs every week or two.  With her dad.  Biology was Hoagland's Science of Biology.  Paleontology (one semester) used Usborne Book of Prehistoric World.  Now she's doing chemistry with Singapore's Chemistry Matters.  Her dad gives her a test after every chapter, but gives her a study sheet beforehand.

 

HTH!  Best of Luck!

 

Kim

 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2017 by perkybunch

[AimeeM]

Thank you so much for this!!!

 

I'm not really concerned about the rat race. Maybe I am. I don't know :(

What I'm worried about is that the materials that will get content subjects retained, are ones markedly below grade level. At least, they are on the sites I order them from. For example, Memoria Press' American History for 7th grade looks interesting, readable, and something that would actually WORK for her -- but then I worry that it will look bad on her transcript, kwim? Because -- well, it's listed as 7th grade on the MP site. Or the Bookshark 100. Looks like it could actually work, but then I read on the boards that most do not consider the Hakim books "high school level." Build You Own Library's 9th grade looks amazing for her, but how is prehistory and geology going to look, when I have specific courses that appear to be needed for graduation in my state?

 

It's stressful. I know you know that. 

 

Her interests are art, cooking, politics, and law. She very much enjoyed physics, but she becomes very upset by the math necessary for highschool-level physics. Upset isn't the right word--she's intimidated. She hasn't enjoyed art since her grandfather died, and has dropped art several times since then. (Her grandfather was her "art buddy.") I hope that I can talk her into some cooking classes this summer -- we have a local cooking school that has camps for teenagers and they look really fun!

 

She loves reading--but "below grade level." In order to really take information from anything, she has to read it several times over, and that is obviously frustrating and tiring. 

 

 

 

She is very, very resistant to doing any classes (for highschool) outside the home. We've tried it several times over the years, and every time it's bombed in a big way. We just have found "that teacher" or "that tutor" for her. 

 

 

Ok, my dd is not technically 2E, only bright with ADHD, but I have read books in that vein and get what you mean. Also I worked in a college admissions dept evaluating transcripts, so I have some of that "other side" perspective on it. I can tell you what I've done, and you can see what you think. I think what you want to do is back up and think about what your goals are, where you're trying to go with this, where you want to be four years from now, and work backward. That sounds really obvious once you say it, but it's essential.

 

The next thing to remember is that homeschooling is already, by nature, a foreign beast to them. Your goal is to *translate* to the prospective employer or college or whomever, so that what you did makes sense to them in their lingo. You can do things that are really creative, out of the box, different, etc., so long as you TRANSLATE them into what the transcript reader understands.

 

Next thing is to question all your assumptions. For instance, you just said must be content-focused, must be difficult. I would question that. Really step back and go ok, is that NECESSARY? 

 

MOST people going into homeschooling high school get really intimidated. They think about transcripts and flip out and think they have to TOSS everything that had been working for them BEFORE. 

 

There's a difference between *stepping things up to help them grow to achieve their goals* and tossing entirely what had been working to change to another system that might not be a good fit.

 

There's also a really big tendency to "rat race" in high school, to do more, be faster, etc. to be more competitive. I decided my dd was not likely to win at a race like that. She's just not, not with her 30-something percentile processing speed and her DOER profile and difficulty with word retrieval and memorization. She's just not. She's the type who's fine in a 300 level class and struggles in a 100-level class with lots of memorization. She just is. 

 

So I had to be really, really honest about the rat race and the pressure to compete (on the hs boards, in life, for univ applications) and go ok, what things are necessary, what are not, what can be done differently. 

 

So, then we tell the truth. We want to be ethical and truthful in how we create our transcripts, yes. Absolutely. Lee Binz has done some terrific, spot-on workshops that you can sign up for for FREE, where she explains this stuff. She's exactly right! It fits what I saw as a transcript clerk and it helps you translate it well into homeschooling. You need to use the FLEXIBILITY of homeschooling to make an authentic approach that really fits your child.

 

Basically you're going to keep doing your thing, whatever has always worked, but you're going to step it up slightly. You're going to see where you want to be four years from now, see the progression, and step it up. And you're going to keep track of hours of everything they do, tally, and mark units.

 

You're going to be honest about what holes are acceptable and what holes are not. You might decide to leave some holes that you tackle with DE when they're at their senior year. This is not unheard of! I've got someone working with my dd on really right-brained, visual ways of studying memorization-driven material. That was a HOLE my dd had. It wouldn't have mattered a flip if I had made her struggle for 4 years with it, because I didn't happen to have that skill to teach her. Now, her senior year, she's spending time with someone with a phd in curriculum design, and that person HAS that skill and can show her how. It's brilliant and simple, all at the same time. Wish I had known! :)

 

And that's sort of your hindsight from me, that if you *find* people like that to connect them with who have those other tools and strategies, that can be good. Sometimes you'll come across a teacher or tutor or EF coach. That could be really good!

 

Just to be in the rat race, I wouldn't. I think they're better served having time to do something WELL, something they're passionate about and really into. I don't know what your dc is into, but make sure they get to do it.

 

Don't be afraid to do things in unusual ways. The first psych we used with dd told me to take things out of the box, WAY out of the box, like the farther out of the box the better. So if your dc's thing is cooking or art or whatever, then use that as a way to approach stuff. If they have a better modality, do it more. 

 

For us, it seemed to work well to have some cover your butt things and some things that were really interest-driven and sort of let it all merge. Like if they eventually get through some acceptable history spines and they do interest-driven things that connect to time periods, then you look back on it, tally those hours, and boom course. They don't have to be done all at the same time like oh, now we're doing US history. Kwim? You can collect hours across all four years. You're marking units= time spent, NOT credits=material covered. So spend time doing things, tally the hours, create courses that show how unique and interesting your dc is.

 

If you want to talk specifics, like what has worked in the past, what your dc's strengths or interests are, etc., feel free. Maybe we can give you ideas or help you ally your fears. Really, I think the more you lay aside the thought that you have to change and the more you keep going but maybe step it up, the better you'll be. Their brains didn't change just because the number changed. They are who they are. I think social skills (the ability to use your passion in a context) are important. Working on that will get you those recommendations you need for college entrance or job applications. Having structure is important so things that aren't preferred get done and don't get dropped. That's thinking with the end in mind. You know you'll want recs, so you've got to get out there in the community. You know you'll need a transcript that say math, that says history, so anything non-preferred has to have a path to make sure it gets done. You might have a list of goals specific to what fits them (ability to write, math scores, whatever). But beyond that, be flexible, be CREATIVE, and keep doing whatever was working.

 

[AimeeM]

It makes absolute sense. Please tell me that geometry class is online, lol. 

 

 

My daughter is very visually/graphically oriented.  She does much better in pictures than in words.  She is very articulate but when you involve words it is like she has to translate.  I found that if I could tap into the picture side then the word side functioned better.  She also struggles terribly with the concept of time.  She does not really feel the passage of time.  It took quite a while for me to realize that was one of the big reasons history was awful for her.  It never made much sense because she couldn't grasp time.  What she did discover she loves is art.  And when I signed her up for an Art History class, just basically shooting in the dark, she found she really liked history.  It just had to be tied to art.  Otherwise it had little meaning to her.  This semester is her 3rd semester taking an art history course.  It has helped so much to tie these two areas together.   She works hard for this class.

 

She also started taking a course that pairs art with geometry.  She loved geometry but the terms were confusing.  Those silly words again.  Then she has a class where the teacher ties those words to ART as they create all these geometric constructions.  Suddenly bisecting a triangle makes sense.  Now she can do more amazing abstract art while also getting a much stronger grasp of Euclidean Geometry.  She didn't need to simply work harder for High School classes, she needed to tackle the subjects from an angle that made more sense to her brain.

 

Does that make sense?  Gotta run but I will check in later... :)

 

[OneStepAtATime]

It makes absolute sense. Please tell me that geometry class is online, lol. 

Yes, it was through Open Tent Academy but I haven't checked to see if it will be offered in the fall or not.  It is a single semester course we just happened to stumble across after the unfortunate closing of Landry (I was trying to find a way to replace the classes DD had already enrolled in) and DD begged me to enroll her in this one.  It is called the Beauty in Math I believe.  Jodi McGee is the teacher.

[PeterPan]

You already know this. You've got to pull back, look at your kid, and be intellectually honest. If she were in school, they would (hopefully have the option to) put her in classes at a level geared for her to succeed. That's why there are all kinds of classes and paths. Your goal is to see GROWTH. If you see growth, relative to herself, you're succeeding.

 

I also think there's just a wide spread in what is reasonable by this age. I personally don't have an issue with using SL100. Let me scratch my head a bit, but I think I saw some people who sent kids to Ivies whose kids used Hakim in high school. Maybe not? Oh, I know some others used core 100 and added some guides (which you could get, I have them, you could do them orally) and do the APUSH exam. I'm not saying you should do the exam. I'm just saying a course is what you MAKE of it. Add some projects, some application that interests her, make it personal, make it thought provoking on her level.

 

If you give her materials with immersion reading (audio plus ebook that highlights as it reads) does she do better? If she has SLD Reading (does she?), it might not be the best use of her time to put all her energy into eye reading. If she's ok with ear reading, I'd go that way. Have you thought about a Teaching Company course? There's a really good US History one on audible for just one credit. I got it for my dd to use for her high school credits and then my ds, who was I think 5 at the time, found it and started listening too. So then does that mean it's not good enough just because a variety of ages can enjoy something?   ;)

 

I think it's this one https://www.amazon.com/History-United-States-2nd/dp/B00DTO57ES/ref=sr_1_1_twi_audd_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1489207128&sr=8-1&keywords=great+courses+us+history  It's 43 hours. You are targeting 120 hours for a unit (year of credit) for her transcript. So maybe you plan that you'll discuss 1 hour for every 3 lectures. Now you're at basically 60 hours, which is 1/2 unit. So maybe you get Hakim on kindle and use text to speech. That would actually take more than the remaining 60 hours. Probably better do Hakim OR TC if you're doing that. So one or the other, then maybe 4 fiction books (avg 4-6 hours for audio=25 hours) and book discussions take you to 30 hours. Now you do some projects (10 hours) and watch movies (20 hours = 10 movies) remembering that the 20th century is awesome in movies and that some movies are just not to be missed! There's this really great one with Spencer Tracy. They made lots of them on history topics. You could watch one a month. Not hard to get done.

 

That's your 120 hours. Do it how you want. There's such a RANGE of what is acceptable. 

 

What you might find helpful is to pick some words and really define what your goals are for this. You've probably hit the elementary goals you went into homeschooling with, so now make some new ones, kwim? That way, when you finish, you'll at least know you accomplished what you REALLY wanted to accomplish with her. It might be that character or work ethic or stick-to-iveness or something is actually MORE IMPORTANT to you than some other things. And then you might say ok by bringing the academics really within reach, it allows me to achieve these other, really important goals. 

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Edited March 11, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

There are some books on cooking through US history.

 

Our vocational college hosts summer camps for kids to explore various careers. Rising freshman can attend. You might see if there's anything like that. The camps are a great idea too. You're really wise to let her try lots of things.