Saxon Alg 2 vs Adv Math Time per day

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I have heard it recommended several times that parents consider stretching Adv Math over 2 years...some people have said it takes *over* 2 hours per day to complete a lesson.

 

This seems strange to me because my son is finishing up Saxon AlG 2 and it takes about an hour and twenty minutes per day.

 

How long per day did your kids take for alg 2? How about advanced math? Would you say it took 1/3 more time ?

[Omma]

I have 2 dc taking this now.  They are only on Lesson 52, but so far it is still full steam ahead (no 1/2 lessons here).  Still no big difference in time, although you are right...according to Art Reed (www.usingsaxon.com) and according to the early pages of the Saxon Adv. Math book itself, most people are advised to take at least 3 semesters (or maybe 4) to complete this book.  However, I have noticed that WTMA offers a Precalculus (Saxon) course that completes that same book in one year.

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Thanks for your input!  Lesson 52 seems to me to be far enough along that you should have some idea of how long it takes.  Although, Saxon is always very much review until about lesson 35 or so....

 

I am surprised that even the book itself encourages kids to take an extra semester. How would that even work?

[cbollin]

My oldest and middle did Saxon alg 1, then jacob's geometry, then Saxon Alg 2 then saxon Advanced. Oldest did some calc in grade 12, and is college junior with heavy math in her triple STEM major.  Middle gal is stopping after saxon advanced in a few weeks at end of her grade 12. (looking at gap year).  Two very different math learners. 

 

We used mfw's saxon/jacobs plans and path instead of reed's suggestion.   Middle gal works slow to average. She is not super genius. She is slow to average.  She takes no more than 2 hours a day in her Saxon Advanced and that allows for time where she might daydream a bit or something, and includes time for checking problems in solutions manual.  She does math 5 days a week.  And with the mfw lesson planner, she has 157 lesson days to do the entire Advanced book.   Also, I should point out that my slow to average speed middle daughter is using the specific problem sets in the mfw lesson plan. I set time limit for her to be done in no more than 2 hours so that she'd work with the clock instead of daydreaming and forgetting.

I know some people faint at the idea of not doing every single problem in saxon, but they (mfw) had a career math teacher select problems. It's not just random even/odds, and wow, my oldest is still getting A's in college math in the 300s.  so it is what it is.  I followed different "expert' opinion than others.

 

MFW gives an alternative way to have it be 3 semesters instead of 2.  They suggest math 3 lessons a week for the 3 semester route. So if you do math 5 days a week with that, it's stop after an hour, and finish the lesson the next day.

However, even my middle gal is doing well with the 2 semester pace as an average 12th grader not going into STEM major.

 

Oldest did the Advanced book in two semesters in grade 11. I don't think she took 2 hours a day in math back then. I don't remember how little or how much time she did alg 2 either. She is very strong in math.  As in, math is one of her three majors in college. So, she may not be the standard to compare.

 

I know reed has his suggestions and all of that. We followed other experts and that's how it worked for us.  Glad to see that it's not just mfw that has a way to do this book in one year. I was beginning to feel like we were quite odd for it being a one year book.

Edited February 23, 2017 by cbollin

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Thanks CBollin!!! I wish wish we had taken the year off alg to do geometry! Now I'm afraid it's better to move onto adv math than to take off now to do geometry , because he will Forget soooo much

Good to know it is doable though!

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Does MFW alter the lesson plans to make it happen?

[cbollin]

I'm feeling dense on the question (that's what I get for binge watching some reruns while doing laundry).  I think you're asking on make it happen to refer to getting Advanced done in 2 semesters?  The plans I have are written as "3 semesters" for the whole book. Designed as 3 book lessons per week. No book lesson is skipped.  But they don't schedule all 30 problems every lesson. They have some math teacher as consultant to pick which problems would be ok for above average student to skip, so my dd did one book lesson a day and do math 5 days a week.  They say in one sentence it can be done in 2 semesters or 4 semesters but don't really give much else on that.  I know that my daughters just do the next lesson the next day and it's 157 totals "days". full year.  Oldest was easily getting A in the course.  Middle is getting B+ ish.  so I didn't make her do all problems.  We took it as a wait and see thing. She reads the lesson, reads the example, does the assigned problem set.  We don't even use the dive cd or anything. 

 

I never really understood the other expert's suggestion about the credits and pacing. so I can't really compare/contrast on that.   Nor do I know how it will go with a younger student like your son. My oldest was 11th grade age, that was what? 17?? 4 years ago. yep that's right.  and middle has turned 18.

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Thanks!! This makes sense now and you understood my question :)

 

He would be 15-16 doing this book next year as a 10th grader.

 

My only other idea is make him double up Derek Owens Geometry and Pre call

[8Arrows4theLord]

The Advanced Saxon book was apparently meant to be 2 separate course books: Geometry with Advanced Algebra & then Trig. /Pre-Calc.. It covers a lot of material. Which is why it is recommended to be spread over 2 years. If you have done Saxon Alg.1 & 2, then you should not need to use another book for Geometry since it is covered through the completion of the series.

My daughter (16) has just started this book after completing TT Algebra 2 course last yr. &  TT geometry course this yr. (over the summer and fall). She wanted more work on her Algebra skills and chose Adv. Math because it covered more concepts than TT Pre-Calc.. She is using the Art Reed cd's, but doing a whole lesson per day (her choice because she is getting ready for the SATs). She only has needed about 1- 1 1/2 hrs. to watch the lesson and then complete the seat work. She is still at the beginning, so it may take longer further into the book. She is enjoying it over all and is doing well. We plan for her to work through the summer and finish next school year. My friend's son is using the book this year and splitting it over 2 yrs., but he is a year younger than my DD.

It basically comes down to how much your child likes math, and how much math is desired to be covered. You can always start out with a whole lesson per day then slow it down if it get to be too much. That is what we are going to do if needed.

If I could go back, I would have put her in this book last spring instead of the Geometry course. She would have gotten the geometry without sacrificing her algebra skills she needed on the PSATs. With the few month gap of no Algebra, she forgot some concepts she had learned in Alg. 2. :sad:

I do highly recommend the Art Reed cd's. He Is enjoyable to listen to and also tells how to label the courses covered by the book so they look like "normal" high school class names on your transcript.

Hope you can find something of use here.

 

 

 

Edited for typos

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by 8Arrows4theLord

[cbollin]

Thanks!! This makes sense now and you understood my question :)

 

He would be 15-16 doing this book next year as a 10th grader.

 

My only other idea is make him double up Derek Owens Geometry and Pre call

 

I have no idea what to tell you on what to do.  However if other details of how it panned out for my family would help you hear stories, then I'll share a bit.  We did jacobs geometry between saxon alg 1 and 2.  It (jacobs geometry, 3rd edition, the one mfw sells/recommends) had plenty of algebra review as we went along.  So honestly, I don't think we lost anything.

We liked the proof style (even though I've heard on this forum info to the contrary about 3rd edition). Both of my dd did fine with their math on ACT and got scores that reflect their ability and scholarships that match. I know that no matter what my oldest would have done, she would have been fine.  She got her dad's math brain (math was one of his two undergrad degrees).  Middle gal really benefited from having jacobs between alg 1 and 2. I sat with her in the beginning of alg 2 and the way saxon did the geometry stuff was not something she would have clicked with. The proof style in geometry was a help to her and I'm really glad we did jacobs between saxon alg 1 and 2.    I'm not dissing saxon.. I'm just saying sometimes it doesn't matter what was designed in a book, it comes down to helping your own student. She's been on average track in math for years and I'm pleased with her getting a math ACT that was a little bit above the "college readiness" benchmark the first time she took the test.  She was near the end of Saxon alg 2 when she did that.  

 

I have read reed's ideas and opinions. etc.  My cover school uses his suggestions as well. However,  there's just no way I was going to give a year's credit after 60 lessons in Advanced, and then do the repeat lessons such and such. I know others do it that way and they sing the praises of it all and plenty who use my cover school do well with that route.  My guess is that if I were in your position doing Advanced in 10th grade, I'd find a way to slow down the pace if the student needed to do that.  I felt like my oldest daughter was still on very strong math path for high school when she did Saxon Advanced in 11th grade in one year. She did a non college credit calculus (not saxon) in grade 12, and was very ready for getting A's in engineering calculus her first year.  Again, she's just that strong of a nerd.

 

Maybe the difference in my experience from the "reed route" is that my dd were a bit older than the suggested ages in the saxon-reed route.  Hope you can sort through all of that.  I wasn't a saxon purist in all of this.

[Beth S]

In my opinion, there are lots of ways to go with Saxon Adv Math.  A lot depends on where the child's coming from and the child's college goals.

 

1)  Lessons #1-19 are Geometry Review.

2)  Our kids do the separate year of Geometry, between Alg 1 & 2, so they are eased into Adv Math.

3)  There is a DIVE-CD product that provides a short lecture for each lesson.

4)  I'm flexible on the 1 or 2 days per lesson thing  . . . and the child listens to the lecture on their own time.

5)  I'm available for questions and help.

6)  Our family goal is to do Saxon Calc as a senior, to be ready for Calc I as a freshman (where it will be review primarily).

7)   So . . . our most controversial path is that we stop the Adv Math book at Lesson #100 & switch over to Calculus.  It's Enough.

 

Also, you will get more feedback on the WTM High School Board.

 

 

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Thank you!!!

 

How many lessons are in this book?

[Beth S]

How many lessons are in this book?

 

120 lessons in the 2nd edition.

 

Ooops!  ETA = 125 lessons!

Edited February 26, 2017 by Beth S

[cbollin]

Thank you!!!

 

How many lessons are in this book?

 

I have a second edition Advanced with 125 lessons. (plus 31 tests). The lesson planner I use schedules all 125 lesson but only 30 tests. giggle. no wonder it feels light. LOL.  ;)

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30 tests seems right to me :)