bluemongoose Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I have tried looking through the threads to figure out which of these two courses is the easiest (to be done first), and I have not been successful in finding an answer. This is for DD to do next year in 8th grade. She has done some NOEO and Elemental science previously and this year she is working through Campbells Exploring Life book. As far as math goes, she is currently working slowly through AOPS intro to Algebra. She completed AOPS pre-Algebra last year. She loves math and says she prefers Chemistry to the other sciences. She would choose Chemistry if I gave her the choice, but I don't want to do the easier one second. The plan is to do one of these (Chem or Physics) for 8th and the other for 9th. Also, if you used Conceptual Physics or Conceptual Chem, what did you use for labs? Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) For a student who is strong in math, I would do neither. Those are conceptual programs with limited math for students who struggle with the math side of high school sciences. I'd use the 8th grade year to either do a science that is not typically part of the high school sequence (like astronomy), or go right to a real algebra based physics course. I would most definitely not do both, because that would waste a high school year on a light course. Why such a discrepancy between her math ability and her planned science sequence? If you absolutely want to do one of these, I would give her the chemistry she desires and don't bother with a lab, because she'll do an actual high school level chem course later, and then do a real physics course in 9th grade. Edited January 9, 2017 by regentrude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 You could also try Clover Creek physics. Dd12 is taking the class this year. They use the Conceptual Physics text, but with additional problem solving that requires algebra knowledge. DD will take AP or DE Physics in high school and this class seems to be great preparation for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemongoose Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 I knew they had limited math, but I thought that was ok for middle school as they are entry level college books??? I was thinking she could later do a more challenging course in high school, maybe even AP. So if you think these are a bad fit, what would you suggest? What is a good "real" physics course? Part of the appeal of the conceptual books was the self study on their website. Is there anything similar that is more challenging, as affordable, and as flexible time wise? I am a newbie at this upper level stuff. Still trying to get a handle on it all :confused1: :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemongoose Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 lovetolearn- I'll check that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I knew they had limited math, but I thought that was ok for middle school as they are entry level college books??? I was thinking she could later do a more challenging course in high school, maybe even AP. So if you think these are a bad fit, what would you suggest? What is a good "real" physics course? Part of the appeal of the conceptual books was the self study on their website. Is there anything similar that is more challenging, as affordable, and as flexible time wise? Check out the sticky thread about high school physics on the High school board. Lots of resources there. The conceptual books are fine for middle school, and are fine for weak math students for high school. I just thought that since you have a student working in high school level math in 7th grade with the most rigorous math curriculum out there, that would be below her level of ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemongoose Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Check out the sticky thread about high school physics on the High school board. Lots of resources there. The conceptual books are fine for middle school, and are fine for weak math students for high school. I just thought that since you have a student working in high school level math in 7th grade with the most rigorous math curriculum out there, that would be below her level of ability. Ok. I'll check the sticky thread. Thanks for pointing me in that direction. So maybe let her do the Conceptual Chem for 8th, but look for something more challenging for Physics. Or maybe find something more challenging for both...oy. Science and Math are not my forte, and of course it is what all my kids love best :willy_nilly: . Fortunately, Math and Science is DH's forte or I would be in a world of hurt! He is the one helping her through AOPS when she needs it. He doesn't have time to also help her through science though, so that is why I'm looking for something for her to be more independent but that is also challenging enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 So maybe let her do the Conceptual Chem for 8th, but look for something more challenging for Physics. Or maybe find something more challenging for both...oy. Science and Math are not my forte, and of course it is what all my kids love best Well, if she's really into chemistry, she will enjoy Conceptual for 8th. And she can then do a real math based chemistry in high school, maybe in 10th. There is a sticky thread for that as well :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemongoose Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 Well, if she's really into chemistry, she will enjoy Conceptual for 8th. And she can then do a real math based chemistry in high school, maybe in 10th. There is a sticky thread for that as well :) Yes she really likes chemistry. If she wanted, is it realistic to do an AP level real math based chemistry in high school if we did Conceptual for 8th, or is that too big a jump? Again, thanks for helping talk me through this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbatoo Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I'm planning on doing conceptual integrated science for 8th instead of physical science, then biology next in 9th. I don't see where the would be a problem doing conceptual chemistry in 8th, especially if that's what she is interested in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Yes she really likes chemistry. If she wanted, is it realistic to do an AP level real math based chemistry in high school if we did Conceptual for 8th, or is that too big a jump? Sounds like a fine plan to me. I don't think you need an intermediate level of chem - she'll have had the basic concepts, and she will be strong in math. Students who struggle in college chemistry usually struggle because they have an insufficient grasp on fractions, ratios, proportions, and basic algebra. Stoichiometry, which is notoriously seen as "hard", is really just proportions, but students who don't understand ratios and try to memorize procedures for the various problems (which essentially are all the same once you understand what is going on) will find it overwhelming and confusing. So, conceptual chem plus math is a fine prep for AP chem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) I wouldn't do either Conceptual Physics or Conceptual Chemistry. I think that CC's avoidance of math (which, in chemistry, isn't that complicated) actually makes things more difficult to understand. I'd use a regular high school chemistry book like Zumdahl instead. Edited January 10, 2017 by EKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemongoose Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Sounds like a fine plan to me. I don't think you need an intermediate level of chem - she'll have had the basic concepts, and she will be strong in math. Students who struggle in college chemistry usually struggle because they have an insufficient grasp on fractions, ratios, proportions, and basic algebra. Stoichiometry, which is notoriously seen as "hard", is really just proportions, but students who don't understand ratios and try to memorize procedures for the various problems (which essentially are all the same once you understand what is going on) will find it overwhelming and confusing. So, conceptual chem plus math is a fine prep for AP chem. Regentrude- Thank you so much! Not just for saying what I wanted to hear :laugh: , but for giving me more information about college chem. This is really not my area, and this is my first to go through upper level courses, so I am very green. I really appreciate your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I have not seen the chemistry book, but my understanding was that it was written for college students, whereas the physics book has versions for both high school and college. Does CC really have minimal math? I think the WTMA uses it for their chem class. We used CP for eighth grade, but I did supplement. We liked the Practicing Physics book, and the Problem Solving in Physics book rather than the problems in the text. We also used some of the materials from the GPB course, some of which had a bit more problem solving. I did have the lab manual, but used very little. There were too many that were not doable at home or were just really simple demonstrations. I used this: https://www.homeschoolsciencepress.com/shop/experiences-in-physics-ebook and I thought it was very good; we did virtually all of them. I haven't yet decided whether I will list CP on the transcript for high school. On the one hand, I know he did more than some students are doing in high school for physics. But the plan is for him to take AP Physics C in high school, so likely no one will care whether that eighth grade course is there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) I have not seen the chemistry book, but my understanding was that it was written for college students, Yes, but for liberal arts majors, i.e. for a chemistry-for-poets class. Which means no math and suitable for late middle/jr high. Edited January 13, 2017 by regentrude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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