Swearing, kids, rationale, blah, blah, blah...

[Mama Bear]

Pardon the ambiguity -- I'm reaching for help but hoping to maintain discretion.

 

Let's run a hypothetical situation. Say your newly adolescent son casually mentions that "someone" has told him that's it's not necessarily a big deal to "interpret freely" (my words) the third commandment. This person has in fact defended certain speech, according to the child in question, by stating that "words won't send a person to hell."

 

I agree that syntax itself has little power. I think God has the ability to look upon our hearts and know what's up with us. Indeed, he meets us where we are -- one of my favorite things about him. :) However, this person, whilst playing fast and loose with some of the other commandments (my interpretation) has claimed to the kids to be "still a Christian" and doesn't attend church because this person "has a problem with the way those people say one thing and do another."

 

Um. Yeah.

 

The thing is, it's all smoke and I get that. Flouting some of the rules while beating people over the head with the ones you want respected for yourself is nuts. And I bet I'd have at least something to say if I were watching someone else in this. But I'm not. I find that it takes awhile for my brain to work through these terrifically emotionally loaded scenarios so I'm attempting to bounce this off y'all.

 

What on earth do I say to my kids? The eldest is toying with opposite ends of his still malleable identity, testing boundaries. The girls are less obvious at this stage but are pretty bothered by folks on the other end of things "claiming to be Christians" but continuing to speak the way they do. (By reports, the person they're left with while he's at work -- OW -- has gone so far as to tell other adults to watch their mouths in front of the kids because my fearless middle child brings her concerns up to her dad. Then this person proceeds to blow it right then and there by using the same language she warned against.)

 

Wah.

 

Any ideas?

[FlockOfSillies]

I guess I'd just go back to the basics. Who gave the commandments? (Hint: not Moses, or Charlton Heston or the guy who played him in the Mel Brooks movie, LOL)

 

What does God have to say in the rest of Scripture? (Hey, kid, not *my* opinion, I'm just the messenger)

 

We're starting the book of James in Sunday service, and I got rather stung by James 1:26 -- "If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless." I'm not the swearing type, but I've not bridled my tongue well the last few days. Ahem.

 

Then there's James 3:2-12, which directly discusses what your kids are hearing from the other side.

 

I'd also add Matthew 12:34 and Luke 6:45... "out of the mouth the heart speaks" verses from when Jesus was confronting the Pharisees.

 

Oh, and I can't forget John 14:15, 21... "if you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

 

I think the trick is to address this from the perspective of, "Kids, what is your own responsibility before God, based on these principles He has repeatedly laid out for us?" You can't do anything about the "parties of the third part," but you can show your kids what's right there in black and white (and red, depending on your Bible printing) and gently lead them to the point where they see the light for themselves.

 

Then there's modeling the behavior for them, of course. Don't know how well you're doing on that score, but it's certainly something to examine. It's something that weighs on me daily, and even more so since we started going through Jerry Bridges' "Respectable Sins" in women's Bible study. If you haven't read it already, I definitely recommend it.

[PariSarah]

What would I tell them? I would tell them that some people just have broken sin-o-meters, and their pontifications do not deserve attention. "Just hold your fingers in your ears and pray loudly whenever they talk."

 

:rofl:

 

If you want to be all mature and gracious about it, though, ;) you could focus on the kids' behavior rather than the adults':

 

"Honey, some people use foul language because their hearts are foul. There's nothing in there but anger, selfishness, and meanness, and what comes out of their mouth is just one part of that. Some people who use foul language are just morally lazy--they're not bad, but they don't make much effort to be good, either. And other people who use foul language have wonderful hearts and you have to really get to know them to know that what comes out of their mouth has nothing to do with what's in their heart. God's really the only one who can tell the difference between these kinds of people. Sometimes you can make a good guess, but God's the only one that can read hearts.

 

"I want you to use the kind of language that lets people make a good guess at your heart. You could have very foul language while having a very kind heart. That's possible. But it's pretty hard for people to tell that. Having kind language makes it easier for people to believe they can trust you to have a kind heart. And sometimes, it makes it easier to HAVE a kind heart."

 

I honestly don't believe that the third commandment is about foul language anyway. It's about people like Fred Phelps or the Taliban or the KKK--People who take God's name and plaster it over their evil, evil hearts. Maybe that's another direction you could take with your kids. "The third commandment keeps us from sinning but saying God approves of it. There are other reasons I don't want you to use foul language."

[Melinda in VT]

And here's just one more reason I want to be Parisarah when I grow up.

[sleepy]

:grouphug: Mama Bear :grouphug:

 

I think, though they may stumble a little bit, your children are going to figure this all out just fine. They see the people beneath the language. They know the choices those people have made. But most importantly, they have a wonderful example of a good, kind, loving, humble human being in you. Your gentle spirit is the constant in their lives, and that is going to make all the difference.

[bkpan]

And here's just one more reason I want to be Parisarah when I grow up.

 

:iagree:

[laughing lioness]

From a pragmatic pov you might let the kids know that ugly talk reflects on the person. As a reformed gutter mouth (I grew up in a VERY educated family that used f-u and G*d this and that as everyday language-it's takes deliberation and discipline to get past that) I vist my family of origin and listen and cringe- it all sound so ugly. I hear my kids say "crap" (my hold-out word) and cringe. Ugly words, just like beautiful uplifting words, reflect on the person.

"Out of the heart a man speaks." While words alone might not send us to h*ll , they do reflect what we are about, our ideals and hopes. Words influence, divide, build up, tear down and cause revolutions. My dh (a psychologist) has treated suicidal teens who are are ready to off themselves because of the words that have been spoken to them (in the form of teasing and bullying).

So what that others claim one thing and aren't consistent. Most of us fail in being the men and women that we hope to be. It's all a process. Justifying out own wrong actions or beliefs based on someone else's fallen-ness is victim pov, rather than a proactive pov. World changers live pro-actively.

[Mama Bear]

You all sure are smart! And articulate and compassionate and logical. :D I could go on, but we're supposed to be on our way to co-op now. So thank you and if anyone happens to have more thoughts, keep 'em coming.

[beansprouts]

I like the explanation the others have given.

 

I have to admit, I have let enough "d*mns" slip out that I occasionally hear it echoed back in a tiny little voice... I try to gently correct the children without overreacting, while my friends would throw a hissy fit and go for the dish soap. Strangely enough, their kids mouths are far worse than mine, and I think it is because the response is so shocking that it gives the words more power than they deserve.

 

So, I probably am more liberal about vocabulary than other Christians. That still doesn't mean I want my kids walking around talking like sailors. (I also do not use God's name as a mere expression, and I strongly discourage my children from doing so. He deserves a bit more respect than that.) I think we have a responsibility to be witnesses for Christ, and a big part of that involves conducting ourselves respectfully.

 

The third commandment actually has less to do with specific vocabulary than behavior and ambassadorship. In other words if you take the name of Christ, you need to be very careful how you represent Him through your behavior, actions, and speech. So while foul speech can be a way of taking the Lord's name in vain, the command involves much, much more (don't they always??)

[NevadaRabbit]

Great wisdom so far, all of it.

 

A study of James might be good. Or 1 John. Both talking about what a person who is saved will look like. Not might look like if they try hard enough, but will look like because if they are truly saved, God is working in them.

 

This morning I read something about determining if a child's profession of faith is sincere. Of course only the Lord knows for certain, but fruit in keeping with salvation has to be part of the picture. Grief over and hatred of sin, repentance, a longing for the Word, a longing for holiness. The article suggested that we could plant a seed not knowing which packet it came from; it's not until that seed has sprouted, grown, and borne flower/fruit that we'll know exactly what is growing. You might suggest to your children that they look for the biblical evidence of salvation as they would look for ripe fruit in the garden. If it's not there, something's wrong.

 

Edited to add: I don't mean looking for evidence of salvation in others - I mean looking for what the Bible says is evidence!

Edited October 20, 2008 by NevadaRabbit

[WTMCassandra]

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Yuk. Just Yuk all around.

 

I like PariSarah's answers--both of them! In fact, I think I would tend to the snarky one at this point if I were you.

 

Both of these individuals' moral credibility is nil, and that's going to be more and more obvious to your precious children as they get older. There are going to be a series of painful revelations, and you can't stop it.

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

I would encourage your children to look at the Bible and then look to see who's really living it out (and that will be you, not *ahem* the individuals in question). Let the children draw their own conclusions. Encourage them to pay attention to what people DO rather than what they say to form their opinions.

 

Unfortunately, and I learned this late, there are people who will say *anything* to justify their own positive images of themselves. Even if they call themselves religious or Christian. I fundamentally didn't *get* that until I was 30yo. Your children will have to learn it much earlier because the situation has forced itself on them.

 

Continue to pray hard (I know you're already doing that).