s/o Wealthy: Student Loans and Basics of Life

[Colleen in NS]

I've mentioned this on this board before, but rarely do I step into a hot shower that I don't thank God for the clean water and the hot water tank.

 

Water. I forgot to mention clean, drinkable water as a necessity. :)

[Carol in Cal.]

When I attended college in chemical engineering, I could take a 2 quarter coop job and live on my income (very frugally, but still, right in CA! Not a cheap place to live!) and save up enough to pay for tuition, books, room and board, for 2 1/2 quarters. My total expenses for each quarter were about $1000. So the total cost for school was about $3000/year

 

Now that same college has expenses of about 28K per year--and this is a public college, not a private one!

 

I can't imagine a student job paying enough to live on AND save over $18K to pay for 2/3 of a school year. Times have really changed, and costs have really gone up.

[mcconnellboys]

I think if we do hit such a bottom, then we will see if we still maintain enough of the genetic hutzpah of our forefathers to make due and use ingenuity to make things better for all.

 

I don't think that we, as a nation, really fully understand what poverty is by the standards of the world. Many around the world speak of America, where even the poor are rich.....

 

If a person could not obtain clothing for their body that was sufficient to protect them from the elements; if they did not have housing that was adequate to protect them from the elements; if they were regularly malnourished; had no access in their housing to plumbing, water, electricity, warmth (or cooling in hot weather), then I would consider them poor.

 

Some of the homeless in our society skate along this edge, but there are others who work the system so well that they use it as a lifestyle for years on end because they don't want to give up their addictions, etc. and re-enter mainstream society (I'm speaking from my experiences here with such individuals and this is what they've told me).

 

We throw away enough stuff every day to feed, clothe, supply at least one other nation of the world, if not more. No, I don't think we understand what poverty truly is....but I do think that a day is coming when we are going to begin to remember....

[PamJH]

So I won't try.

 

These are all thought-provoking questions. I've often wondered what would happen if the bottom dropped out of capitalism. How would we cope?

 

All of our livelihoods are based on buying and selling in some fashion. Actors sell their talent for millions; we buy it in the form of movie tickets. Same for professional athletes.

 

Farmers sell their crops, we buy them in the form of food.

 

Target sells towels, soda, televisions and clothes. We buy some of these because we need them, some because we want them. What happens to the manufacturers, stores and employees who only sell wants such as cell phones, DVDs, holiday decorations and the like?

 

I think we might all have to adjust to having less, but perhaps we'll find a way to value each other more. We'll have to make an effort to spend time together, time that doesn't involve watching TV, going to the movies, or shopping. We'll have to be creative and really talk to each other.

 

Some people will find this easier than others will. I'm hoping my family won't find it too difficult. I don't like to be gloomy, but I don't see us pulling out of this financial pit any time soon. I'd like to fight my tendency to circle the wagons at times like these and instead reach out to those who are having a difficult time.

 

This is a poor, rambling answer to some very good questions.

[mcconnellboys]

Gee, Pam, I think your response is terrific!

[Maria from IN]

I'm not quite sure how to answer these questions, because I'm right in the thick of it.

 

At the end of grad school I will have a Masters degree in Counseling and about $47,000 in student loans. Thank goodness I got Pell grants in undergrad, or it would have been even more than that! I will also owe my mother about $20,000 in living expenses. She's 67 years old and helping pay my bills with dad's pension while I educate my way out of the factory job (that was heavily dependent on that fickle auto industry) that gave me carpal tunnel in both hands.

 

My Masters degree is necessary. Without it, I would be working in a non-profit somewhere pushing paper--and, likely, pushing clients through a revolving door. I can't bring myself to do that. Before I would have probably been the first to say that if you want something to change, you have to change it...I know now that some things are just too big. With a higher degree I can affect more change and deal with less...uh...bureaucracy, I guess. With just a BS degree I would also be making far less than if I were back at the factory.

 

My son and I talk all the time about careers. He's almost 14, and I still don't know if he's college material. I think he might be, especially after getting his feet wet at community college. There's nothing whatsoever wrong with working with our hands; learning a trade or performing a service is an honorable way to live. I just know what it's like to wake up Monday morning after 3 twelve-hour shifts at the factory in pain and having very little to show for it. I don't want my son to have a life like that; I want him to have a career that he finds satisfying--that he loves. College, however expensive it may be and however "worth it" some people say it is or isn't, is necessary for him to achieve what he wants--or at least to explore the possibilities. I'm sure there are some here who disagree, but that's what makes the world so interesting.:001_smile:

 

In 1989 the tuition at my college was about $1700 per year. I got an academic scholarship that covered most of that, and it was about another $5000 for housing. This year tuition is well over $6000 per year, and dorm fees are around $9000, if memory serves...and my student loan is for $18,000 dollars this year. I get more because I'm a grad student, but that doesn't mean it covers everything. After tuition, $1000/month bare minimum household expenses, insurance for me because I don't qualify for help there, and all the other normal financial surprises and annoyances, there's less than nothing left.

 

Sure, we have a TV, VCR, DVD, two computers, and a car that's paid for. We live in a nice condo in a wonderful neighborhood. I live close to school and have a job as a PRN intake writer at a local hospital. Jake gets new curriculum every year and has even done a few things that he wanted to do like Swim and Gym and Taekwondo.

 

But...

 

The TV is a hand-me-down from an electronically proficient brother. So are the computers. He has a very good job as an engineer at a tv station, and makes all kinds of sacrifices for the Young Man and me because he knows I can't do it.

 

The VCR, DVD, car, and down payment for the condo were all my parents. The car was my dad's, who used to drive it to the hospital for breathing treatments when he was dying. It was completely paid for. The down payment for the condo was from dad's life insurance.

 

My mother had to pay for 1/3 of the Taekwondo contract because I couldn't anymore. She helps out with the $1000 in household bills I have every month, since I hardly get any hours at the hospital and never heard back from the tutoring service at the school.

 

So, essentially, nothing is mine. None of it. Yet, I still consider myself one of the lucky ones.

 

I haven't had a vacation in 20 years. I can't give my son the educational opportunities my parents gave me. I can never be a stay-at-home mom. For a long time I will be wondering where payment for the next bill will come from or if our food stamps will run out.

 

But eventually, I will be able to climb out of this muck and pay all these people back.

 

I can't do that without student loans...and strangely enough, given the requirements of my program, I can't do that without a VCR, a reliable vehicle, and high-speed internet (just try downloading a 18-page .pdf with dialup!).:D

 

Sorry for all the rambling...

[Sara R]

The cost of college has risen much faster than general inflation. In part that is because there are student loans. Colleges charge what they can get away with, and the money available for college has risen with the increased availability of student loans. If student loans dry up, the costs of college would have to go down.

 

It's just like with houses. The big run-up in the cost of houses was partly caused by the lowering of mortgage standards. More people being able to borrow more money for a house leads to a seller's market (more buyers than sellers), which leads to the prices of houses going up.

 

I was able to get through college without debt because I went to a private religious college that hasn't had big crazy increases in tuition, and because my parents helped, and because I had a scholarship.

[Jean in Wisc]

But I think I did it! You are great!! I've learned and I understand more by hearing your thoughts. Thank you!

 

This past couple of weeks I spent a day at the hospital with my mom in the emergency room, I've had company for 3 days, I've been managing the building of a new shed at our astronomy club's observatory, I've spent time at the Shriner's Children's Hospital getting things set up for my son's spine surgery, and I've kept the school schedules going and home fires burning. Ack! Sorry to be so long getting back to this post. I've just been juggling a few too many balls lately.

 

Blessings to you all--

Jean