Question about handwriting - sample pics

[AnthemLights]

I have a question about my son's handwriting.  I've attached some samples so you can see what I mean.

 

When he was first tested by the school a year ago, his writing speed (manual, not cursive) was 8 letters/ 20 seconds.  (Most students his age can write 23 letters/ 20 seconds).  A year later, I don't think it has improved any.

 

The evaluator went on to say that "teaching cursive writing may improve his ability to write.  It will be very difficult but not impossible to remediate his manual writing techniques."  I didn't like her use of the term "remediate" because it seems like the underlying implication was that he had been taught wrong, when, in fact he hadn't.  He wrote a lot of his letters starting from the bottom rather than the top....not because he doesn't know better, but because he forgets.

 

We have worked through several handwriting books.  The latest is Pentime 2 where it teaches the transition from manual to cursive.  

 

As you can see his cursive is actually rather pretty.  But that's on lined paper and it takes him f.o.r.e.v.e.r because none of the letters are automatic.  He has to look for every stroke.

 

His manual writing is rather atrocious as you can also see.

 

So far we have only done testing with the school with an unofficial diagnosis of dyslexia.  Is his handwriting such a struggle because of the dyslexia?  If not, should I be looking at further testing?   And what would be your thoughts as to what the underlying issue might be?  If you were I, would you keep working on the manual writing, or would you concentrate on cursive.  We have started typing (TTRS) because frankly, I am worried that he will never be able to write fluently.  

 

He is 11 and shows a lot of manual dexterity in everyday life.  Thanks for any advice or insight

 

BTW, just to avoid confusion, I wanted to say that I have changed my name and avatar.  (It's complicated)  I have been on this site for a long time, but even under my old name, I didn't post that much.   :001_smile:

 

 

 

Handwriting.pdf

Handwriting.pdf

[PeterPan]

The print was on unlined.  What happens if he's on lined?  That's some seriously nice cursive, wow!  I can tell you that my dd did *not* get a dysgraphia or SLD writing label, in spite of her handwriting STILL not being automatic at that age.  She also doesn't have dyslexia, just ADHD.  I remember sweating, just like you're sweating, because the handwriting was not automatic AND the typing was not going well!  I gave her an ipad and bluetooth keyboard and paid her to learn to type.  She types Dvorak keyboard instead of QWERTY, because QWERTY was not working for her, not functional after YEARS of working on it.  

 

Had her rechecked at like 15/16, and her handwriting is now considered automatic by a ps OT.  Not fabulous, definitely slow if you want it legible, but it's there as a skill she can slow and do.  So she's going to type all she can, but she doesn't get a label.  She continues to use Dvorak btw and now blesses me for it.  She's actually really good in Dvorak.  Her fingers could just not do all the movements in QWERTY.

 

So I think the spelling errors, the brain drain while he writes it the dyslexia, sure.  The first (private) psych said the same thing about my ds.  Then the ps pushed him over to SLD writing.  I think you're doing the right things continuing to work on it, bringing in typing.  I know people who had legible handwriting in school (effortful but legible) who gave up completely once they graduated.  The advice here I got on the boards was to have a good sig and screw the rest.  Now that *can* come back to bite you if you need to do say an AP exam with writing or the writing portion of the ACT.  We need to redo the ACT this fall and add the writing, so that's an issue, yes!  That cursive looks good for him and it looks like with models he can succeed. I would definitely continue to work on it, maybe through about age 14.  That's when my dd's spurt occurred.  

 

Has he had an OT eval?  Have you worked on working memory?  Does he have comorbid ADHD that you could medicate to see how that helps?  

 

The answer to the question about the psych is yes you could consider a private psych eval.  I read people online saying handwriting not automatic gets you a dysgraphia label, and the diagnosis would open doors for official accommodation.  On the other hand we did the evals privately and didn't get it. Your ds *is* legible when he slows down.  Even his manuscript, without lines, is pretty doggone decent.  The SLD writing diagnosis is not really about letter formation (which is more an OT, midline issue) but more about how they go from thought to written.    

Edited June 1, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[AnthemLights]

The print was on unlined.  What happens if he's on lined?  His manual writing is just as nice as his cursive - IF he has lines and a model to follow.  But it is just as slow as the newly learned cursive even though we have spent years on it.  I tried to upload a sample but it just keeps telling me my file is too big.  

 

 

That's some seriously nice cursive, wow!  Thanks, he says he likes writing cursive 'cuz it's art.  And because the letters flow into each other, he doesn't have to remember where to start with on writing each letter.  That's what makes me wonder if we shouldn't just forget the manual and concentrate on cursive.  Although like I said, he is so slow, it is almost painful to watch him.  His little tongue is sticking out and his face is all furrowed up from concentrating so hard.   :sad:

 

I can tell you that my dd did *not* get a dysgraphia or SLD writing label, in spite of her handwriting STILL not being automatic at that age.  She also doesn't have dyslexia, just ADHD.  I remember sweating, just like you're sweating, because the handwriting was not automatic AND the typing was not going well!  I gave her an ipad and bluetooth keyboard and paid her to learn to type.  She types Dvorak keyboard instead of QWERTY, because QWERTY was not working for her, not functional after YEARS of working on it.  

 

Had her rechecked at like 15/16, and her handwriting is now considered automatic by a ps OT.  Not fabulous, definitely slow if you want it legible, but it's there as a skill she can slow and do.  So she's going to type all she can, but she doesn't get a label.  She continues to use Dvorak btw and now blesses me for it.  She's actually really good in Dvorak.  Her fingers could just not do all the movements in QWERTY.  We just started on the typing in the last couple of weeks.  He is on lession 12 on the first level.  He seems to be okay with the movements as far as I can tell. 

 

So I think the spelling errors, the brain drain while he writes it the dyslexia, sure.  The first (private) psych said the same thing about my ds.  Then the ps pushed him over to SLD writing.  I think you're doing the right things continuing to work on it, bringing in typing.  I know people who had legible handwriting in school (effortful but legible) who gave up completely once they graduated.  The advice here I got on the boards was to have a good sig and screw the rest.  Now that *can* come back to bite you if you need to do say an AP exam with writing or the writing portion of the ACT.  We need to redo the ACT this fall and add the writing, so that's an issue, yes!  That cursive looks good for him and it looks like with models he can succeed. I would definitely continue to work on it, maybe through about age 14.  That's when my dd's spurt occurred.  Would the AP exam have provided accommodations if she had had the SLD writing label?

 

Has he had an OT eval? No he hasn't unless it was part of the testing he did at school?  (Ok,  I just read over the report and no, he didn't)

 

Have you worked on working memory?  His working memory when he as tested at the beginning of the school year was 91.  27th percentile.  We haven't done any specific work on that.  I didn't realize you could.  

 

 Does he have comorbid ADHD that you could medicate to see how that helps?  I am not sure about the ADHD.     He has a lot of the signs but we have not wanted to go the medical route with that. We kind of just work around a lot of the symptoms which I know wouldn't work if is was in public school.  If he wants to pace or sprawl on the floor or hang upside down from the couch while he is studying, I am good with that.   :001_cool:  We keep lessons short with lots of physical breaks (running around the house, playing with the dogs, etc.)  He likes headphones and a very quiet atmosphere, because he gets easily distracted.  He also likes to talk and interrupts others without thinking.  He jokes about himself that basically he has been talking nonstop since he was born. Which is pretty close to the truth.  ;)

 

The answer to the question about the psych is yes you could consider a private psych eval.  I read people online saying handwriting not automatic gets you a dysgraphia label, and the diagnosis would open doors for official accommodation.  On the other hand we did the evals privately and didn't get it.  Your ds *is* legible when he slows down.  Even his manuscript, without lines, is pretty doggone decent.  The SLD writing diagnosis is not really about letter formation (which is more an OT, midline issue) but more about how they go from thought to written.   I wonder why that is.  It seems to me that if someone takes 10X as long to write something than their peers, it would be obvious that they have a SLD in writing.   Maybe I am just not getting it.  

 

You say that letter formation is OT, midline stuff.  In there anything that I could be doing with that at home?

 

Thanks for all your help.  I do appreciate the time you have put into answering me.  And I will also search old threads.  I am sure that a lot of this (at least the OT stuff) has been discussed at length.

[Mom28GreatKids]

Our OTs are promoting a new handwriting curriculum called Size Matters. They are putting on a seminar with the materials later this month. It looks interesting albeit expensive, since it is for clinics to purchase, not necessarily families. Not sure it could be implemented with just he TM. I want to go to the seminar but it is the night before we leave on vacation so not sure if that is going to happen. Just thought I would share. It can be found at www.realotsolutions.com. Their cutting program also looks good, but Jeesh, it is soooo expensive.

 

ETA: be careful googling the name of the curriculum! 😱

Edited June 3, 2016 by Mom28GreatKids

[PeterPan]

BalavisX and Focus Moves/School Moves work on midline.  There are lots of programs that work on midline.  Interactive Metronome is terrific.  Really, if you can get an OT eval, it would be good.  Also check for retained reflexes.

 

Yes, you can work on working memory.  We've had threads on it and it's late, so I'm leaving you to google.  :)

[AnthemLights]

Our OTs are promoting a new handwriting curriculum called Size Matters. They are putting on a seminar with the materials later this month. It looks interesting albeit expensive, since it is for clinics to purchase, not necessarily families. Not sure it could be implemented with just he TM. I want to go to the seminar but it is the night before we leave on vacation so not sure if that is going to happen. Just thought I would share. It can be found at www.realotsolutions.com. Their cutting program also looks good, but Jeesh, it is soooo expensive.

 

ETA: be careful googling the name of the curriculum! 😱

 

 

I had to laugh at the name of the curriculum.  It struck me so funny that I showed my daughter and she wonders if that is some sort of evil joke.  Like some poor kid somewhere will be asked someday what he uses for writing, and he will innocently answer,  "Size matters"   :rofl:

 

Seriously though, I am not sure if I am looking at the right stuff.  One set of 18 books is only $38.50.  That seems really inexpensive to me.  

[Mom28GreatKids]

Ha ha. Yes, bad name. Yes the work books were cheap but the TM was about 100 or so. Wowsa.

[Mom28GreatKids]

Ha ha. Yes, bad name. Yes the work books were cheap but the TM was about 100 or so. Wowsa. I am assuming the TM has all the OT related help, otherwise it is just another handwriting program.

[AnthemLights]

BalavisX and Focus Moves/School Moves work on midline.  There are lots of programs that work on midline.  Interactive Metronome is terrific.  Really, if you can get an OT eval, it would be good.  Also check for retained reflexes.

 

Yes, you can work on working memory.  We've had threads on it and it's late, so I'm leaving you to google.   :)

 

Thanks, Elizabeth.  I will start googling.   :001_smile:

[AnthemLights]

Ha ha. Yes, bad name. Yes the work books were cheap but the TM was about 100 or so. Wowsa. I am assuming the TM has all the OT related help, otherwise it is just another handwriting program.

 

 

Ok, yes, I see what you mean about the manuals.  I hadn't looked that far.  OUCH!