My3girls Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 So here's my situation... DD13 did WWS1 over 6th and 7th grade. She didn't like it. I did. She learned but, probably, not as much as she could have if she had liked it better. I settled on IEW SWI-C for this semester and thought I had found someone to borrow it from because I so cannot afford to buy it. Come to find out she has B not C. I can still borrow it and do B or adapt B to the C level. Since I have not used it, I am not sure exactly what that entails, but she said it shouldn't be a problem. So my 3 options, I am trying to decide between are 1. Do SWI-B (I'm afraid this will not advance her, but we could do it in a semester and do the CC in the spring which probably would.) 2. Adapt B to a C level (I'm afraid I will screw it up.) 3. Just do WWS 2 and tell DD13 to suck it up. (I'm afraid it will lead to conflict over writing.) Help! I know there are other writing curriculums out there, but these are my top 3 choices. I need to make the decision by tomorrow. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monalisa Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I haven't used SWI B or C, but I have used IEW SWI A and half of SICC-A. From what I understand about the SWI levels, it would be fine to use SWI-B with an 8th grader (I assume your dd is 8th grade?). In the IEW catalog it shows SWI-B for 6th - 8th, and SWI-C for 9-12th. On page 17 of the current catalog you can see what topics are covered in SWI-C that aren't in B, which are Unit 8 (formal Essay Models) and Notes from a Live lecture. IEW customer service is extremely helpful, so you might check with them about the easiest way to beef it up to include what is in SWI-C. I would also think you could start The Elegant Essay following SWI-B to get the essay skills in. I also own WWS1 (and have read through it in detail to decide if I wanted to use it or stay with IEW), and the approach in IEW is so different from WWS1, that it may be challenging to get through SWI-B in a semester. If it was me I would go with the curriculum that didn't cause strife. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Well, I know you said those were you top choices, and you want to go with one of those, BUT… What kind of writer is your DD? Clearly, she does not connect with WWS. Is she more of a creative writer? A natural writer? A strongly visual learner? If so, then IEW and WWS are both parts to whole thinking/writing, and focus on building up writing from details and outlines. If your DD does not think that way, then neither of these writing choices are likely to be the best at helping her develop/strengthen her own natural way of thinking through the process of thinking of what to write about, how to organize the writing, how to support her contentions, etc. For 8th grade, you want to solidify foundations in writing, but also be moving your student forward (if they are ready) into beginning essays and multi-paragrah writing of various types. And that's why it's a really good time to move more towards a program or method that really helps the student learn how to think through the writing process in the way that works best for them. My suggestion would be one of the Brave Writer programs: - Faltering Ownership (home study program $79, or bundle $198) or - Transition to Ownership (bundle, $159) You might also check out Essentials in Writing, which has been getting some good reviews. It is DVD-lesson-based, to the student, and there are samples online. And since cost is a factor, check out Spectrum Writing (gr. 8) -- $12. It's only about 125 pages long, but you could spend several days to a week on each writing skill, and come up with real-life writing, and writing to support your other subjects, as some additional assignments, and to practice the skills... Whether you decide to check these new ideas, or want to go with one of the IEW programs or the next level of WWS, I strongly encourage you to FIRST have DD look at samples WITH you at this stage, and get her input. What clicks for HER? Why? Can you bend and go with her, using the method that works best for her? I totally understand that finances may be a limiting factor here, so disregard my post if this is not workable, or cheaper, used copies aren't available… AND, since friend is willing to loan you IEW-B for free… why not give it a whirl, and adapt by going through it at a quicker pace, and doing longer amounts of writing. Here's the sample pages for IEW-C, so you can check out the scope and sequence, the schedule, and general type/amount of info, so you can compare with IEW-B, and see how to adjust it. Just my unsolicited 2 cents worth! ;) BEST of luck in finding the writing program that works great for you both! Warmest regards, Lori D. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 3. Just do WWS 2 and tell DD13 to suck it up. (I'm afraid it will lead to conflict over writing.) I can't speak to IEW because I know nothing about it, but I would strongly encourage you not to go with option 3. Writing instruction need not be unpleasant, and as a former professional writer and editor, I urge people never to stick with a writing program their child doesn't like. Writing can and should be pleasant, not drudgery or too hard. I will suggest a free resource that we use and enjoy: Writing in English by William Henry Maxwell. It is available free from Google books and is for high school age students. It is very similar to the modern "classical" writing programs but much simpler to implement. It is also very flexible. You can change, modify, or rearrange the order of the lessons to suit your and your students needs and interests. My dd started in School Composition, his book for middle grades students, and learned a lot from it. In my opinion, Writing in English is EVEN STRONGER than School Composition. Another inexpensive option is to purchase a used copy of The Lively Art of Writing and use the free student workbook that some WTMers created. You can get a copy of TLAoW for under $10. Best wishes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Echoing Lori D and Tara to say that I wouldn't push WWS if your dd really dislikes it. Especially at this age, where there are plenty of other areas where conflict can arise, I think writing really shouldn't be one of them. WWS is a strong program of a specific type/style - like Lori said, very parts-to-whole. If your dd doesn't think like that it will just be an unpleasant chore to go through. It's fantastic for some kids, but if it's not a fit, I wouldn't be attached to it just because it is good and you like it. Writing is so personal, and you can ruin it by making it an uncomfortable chore. So yeah, more unsolicited advice, sorry about that, but I went through this soul-searching about using WWS with my dd awhile back, so I really can relate to the feeling of wanting to just make it work! Some alternative that have worked much, much better for us are Lively Art of Writing, mentioned by Tara, which is a really nice introduction to essay writing. It is super inexpensive and the workbook (definitely use the workbook!) is free. We also really like the book Writing With a Thesis: A Rhetoric and Reader, which you can also get cheap on Amazon. It is a very whole-to-parts approach to writing, which begins with looking at the purpose of the piece, and then goes through all the different essay styles/types/topoi you can use to achieve your rhetorical purpose. It has nice sample essays that help the student see what can be done with the essay form. It is a nice followup to the basic essay you learn in LAoW. This year Shannon is doing some BW classes. She is really enjoying it so far. The classes are pricey, so that may not be an option. But I share the idea because it really reinforced for me the idea of fitting the instruction to the student. My dd has a lovely voice in her writing, and BW really supports that and helps her channel it into producing the kind of writing I'm asking for without losing her own, unique, creative voice. It also really helps with the techniques for thinking more deeply before you sit down to write - this helps with the blank brain that happens when they are facing a blank sheet. They are doing all kinds of exercises that I'd never take the time to do with her, but I'm seeing their value. Lori mentioned the Faltering Ownership and Transition to Ownership products. There is also Help for High School, which is written to the student. The first half of Help for High School is covered in the Kidswrite Intermediate class, and the second half is covered in the Expository Essay class. Again, I apologize if none of this helps you with your immediate decision! But I thought I'd share just because we had a similar struggle in trying to find a good fit for writing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My3girls Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 Thank you for the input. The Bravewriter does look good, but unfortunately, cost is a factor at this time. We're going to give the IEW SWI-B a try and see how it goes. I'll keep BW in mind, though, and we might be able to use it in the future. There's nothing that says we can't use mutliple resources, right? :) I did pick up the Lively Art of Writing at a used curriculum sale this summer but haven't done anything with it. I'll read it and take a peek at the work book. Does anyone have a link to the workbook? I'm not sure where to find it. Thanks! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Thank you for the input. The Bravewriter does look good, but unfortunately, cost is a factor at this time. We're going to give the IEW SWI-B a try and see how it goes. I'll keep BW in mind, though, and we might be able to use it in the future. There's nothing that says we can't use mutliple resources, right? :) I did pick up the Lively Art of Writing at a used curriculum sale this summer but haven't done anything with it. I'll read it and take a peek at the work book. Does anyone have a link to the workbook? I'm not sure where to find it. Thanks! Wishing you and DD all the best in the new school year and with the IEW! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) ... Edited June 25, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Here is a link to the Lively Art of Writing workbooks: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/471529-lively-art-of-writing-formatted-workbook-and-key-x-post/?hl=lively+art+writing&do=findComment&comment=6298465 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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