What do I do with a child who retains nothing?

[Aspasia]

My dd8 doesn't seem to retain anything, in any subject, regardless of the curriculum or method. We started with MM and she mastered concepts seemingly easily, but when we stepped away from that concept for a couple weeks, the next time she saw it, it was like brand new material. So I switched to Horizons, because it's spiral. That has been much better, because of all the built-in review. But we took some time off this summer to visit family and go to the beach, and now that I'm putting this work in front of her again, she has forgotten a lot of the most basic principles that I really thought she had mastered this last year. She has the same problem with everything else: history, science, literature. No matter how much she gets it while we're learning about it, nothing sticks, even days later. I try to focus our science studies on things she's interested in. Our science study consists almost entirely of just pursuing questions that she naturally asks. She is very interested, but she can't seem to talk about it later. At all. She despises narration, and I think that's because it's super hard for her.

 

She seems to grasp things when she learns them, but nothing lasts (except memory work, strangely).

What should my goals for this child be?

 

ETA: Somehow, she does pretty well on her yearly test that she takes to meet our state's homeschooling requirements. Her composite scores have been around the 90th percentile. So I guess it isn't like she's not retaining ANYTHING. Her reading and writing skills are solid, and I THOUGHT her math skills were pretty strong, too (until today). We mostly have issues with content subjects.

[sbgrace]

I read this really interesting collection of research on long term retention. http://www.gwern.net/Spaced%20repetitionIt was fascinating. It also made me realize why one of mine particularly forgets what I thought was mastered and understood.

 

The piece is long, though, and very detailed. I appreciated all the research studies the author summarized and cited, as well as the thoughts he/she added.

 

This is  one article he links in the end of the piece that is easier to digest http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/07/health/views/07mind.html

 

“The idea is that forgetting is the friend of learning,†said Dr. Kornell. “When you forget something, it allows you to relearn, and do so effectively, the next time you see it.â€

That’s one reason cognitive scientists see testing itself — or practice tests and quizzes — as a powerful tool of learning, rather than merely assessment. The process of retrieving an idea is not like pulling a book from a shelf; it seems to fundamentally alter the way the information is subsequently stored, making it far more accessible in the future.

 

 

 

The take away is basically that research proves (unequivocally) that you will recall better if you spread testing/recall of material out over long periods of time. This isn't reviewing or going over material again, but being asked to recall or pull the information out of her memory. The research would support spiral math. Is horizons new? It's possible the review time isn't spread out long enough yet. I already had switched to spiral math. After reading the research in the long piece, I added regular questioning regarding old material to our science and history. 

 

FWIW, we went to vacation last week and my kids are rusty today in some areas. I think it's showing what material is more solid vs. what isn't quite mastered yet. Being asked to recall, actually especially when it's almost forgotten, is actually going to make that memory pathway stronger. It's a good thing. "Forgetting is the friend of learning," as said above.

 

 

[Tiramisu]

FWIW, my now 15 year old dd would forget math fact and concepts over weekends until she was in about fourth or fifth grade when things started to change. She started with CLE in third grade. I think CLE was perfect for her, but it still took time with it and some development in her to start to retain better. She used CLE to mid-way through the 800 level when we switched to Saxon for algebra. She had a lot of mistakes there but with vision therapy, she showed great improvement. She placed into honors math, which we decided wouldn't be best for her, so she started in Geometry. If you would have told me that when she was ten and couldn't remember things from one day to the next, I wouldn't have believed it. 

 

She doesn't remember any of our history studies from our hs years, even though what we did was interest-led. She's on a four year music path now at high school which has exempted her from having to take extra history and that's fine with her. She does recognize at this point, though, that others know more about history than she does and she has a hard time remembering it.

[kbutton]

This would not necessarily explain the math situation, but is part of the issue that maybe she doesn't know how to put things into her own words later? If she can memorize memory work, I would guess that either technique is different, or maybe part of the issue is how to discuss non-rote information later since she has to have words, facts, etc. at the ready to even have a reasonable way to explain all of that. Then, she would have to put the events or concepts in her own words vs. memorizing. Just a thought. I may be totally off-base. I know my almost 8 yo is like, "is that the dude that did such and such?" "I can't remember her name, but such and such happened. is that what you are talking about?" We went to visit my parents, and we told the kids who would be showing up at various times. My 8 yo still managed to ask my uncle, "Are you a neighbor, or are you a relative?" Sigh. People were showing up pretty gradually, but he was out to lunch when we explained who would be coming, I guess.

[Aspasia]

I do think a lot of it may have to do with not being able to put her thoughts into words. Maybe I need to do more narration with her (and since she hates it and struggles with it, I would obviously just have to give her lots and lots of help.)

[Heathermomster]

Has your child been tested and diagnosed with anything?

 

For the writing, Dr. Charles Haynes gave a webinar that is posted on the Eides' blog about the sub-routines of writing and scaffolding. FairP introduced us to the webinar so maybe search the forums and watch the webinar. For written output, scribe. Haynes suggests the first paragraphs be in 1st person and describe a series of events, which really practices sequencing and organization of output.

 

My kids use manipulatives with math. The first week or so off of summer break is review. When DS forgets, I just reteach. Is she 8 yo and unable to recall basic math facts? Testing will allow you to know specific strengths and weaknesses so that you can tailor your teaching.