Truth, Beauty, & Goodness / Ideas over facts. Thoughts please

[stutterfish]

Unfortunately, the UK school system is now dominated by the need to meet targets and excel in school league tables. Even so, I still have no idea why it is normal to take so many GCSE subjects at age 16, unless you have a child who thrives on academics. For those children who can't cope with the pressure, the effects on mental health aren't pretty.

 

 

But...I guess that's why we've opted out of the system. :) The thought of doing 12 GCSEs at home, without any external support or funding, would be a recipe for insanity here! I might have got a little sucked into the exam madness, but I'm still sane enough to question the mentality that a child has to have achieved everything by the time they are 19. Some of my best learning took place in my thirties :)

[stutterfish]

"I do plan to spread out the state exams, to make them less overwhelming. On the other hand, I'm sometimes wondering, just like with a young child when you work long to teach them something they could have picked up really quickly when a bit older......sometimes I wonder if my dd would not spend way more time preparing for a state exam at 14 in stead of at 17. I don't know. I find this very difficult to decide."

 

Yes it is difficult to know what to do for the best. For us, we found it good to do a few exams early. My children could get used to the process of studying for an exam, they could familiarise themselves with the need to jump specific hoops, they could get used to sitting in an exam hall etc., without the time pressure of feeling that they absolutely HAD to pass the exam THAT year. Doing a few, less important subjects really helped to ease them into the process, without it really mattering how well they did.

 

Would the studying have been easier if they were older? Yes, I expect maturity would have helped. Might they have got better grades for those early exams if they had waited another year? Possibly, which is why they started with less important subjects that they had no intention of studying further.

 

I think you have to weigh up the pros and cons, but in the end you need to consider what *you* can cope with - financially, emotionally, logistically - as much as what the child can cope with. If I had had only one child and a large pot of money I expect I would have made some different decisions along the way :)

[Tress]

Unfortunately, the UK school system is now dominated by the need to meet targets and excel in school league tables. Even so, I still have no idea why it is normal to take so many GCSE subjects at age 16, unless you have a child who thrives on academics. For those children who can't cope with the pressure, the effects on mental health aren't pretty.

 

 

But...I guess that's why we've opted out of the system. :) The thought of doing 12 GCSEs at home, without any external support or funding, would be a recipe for insanity here! I might have got a little sucked into the exam madness, but I'm still sane enough to question the mentality that a child has to have achieved everything by the time they are 19. Some of my best learning took place in my thirties :)

 

Stutterfish, do you have different tracks for high school?

 

In the Netherlands we have 3 different tracks, the lowest track has less exams and those are at a much lower level.

For entrance to a university, you do need to follow the highest track, which only 10% of Dutch students do. But a university degree is not at all necessary for a lot of jobs.

 

I wish I could opt out of the system completely, however at one point my dds will have to re-enter the system and there is no re-entry without a high school diploma. No one will hire you, no school/university will accept you. The only way out of the system is through the arts, if your child is a world-class piano player or ballerina, he/she might get accepted into a program based on talent. 

 

It would be easier if I wasn't aiming for university entrance, that is for sure. I'm just not sure I could do that to my gifted kids. 'Yes, we decided to homeschool you, although homeschooling is barely legal and noone else is doing it, and yes, your peers are learning 3 languages and passing the state exams easily, but sorry....I couldn't manage that for you.....but believe me.....homeschooling is better'. Hmmpf.

 

ETA, I'm not angry at you, I'm just frustrated with the situation.

[Tress]

Yes it is difficult to know what to do for the best. For us, we found it good to do a few exams early. My children could get used to the process of studying for an exam, they could familiarise themselves with the need to jump specific hoops, they could get used to sitting in an exam hall etc., without the time pressure of feeling that they absolutely HAD to pass the exam THAT year. Doing a few, less important subjects really helped to ease them into the process, without it really mattering how well they did.

 

<snip>

 

I think you have to weigh up the pros and cons, but in the end you need to consider what *you* can cope with - financially, emotionally, logistically - as much as what the child can cope with. If I had had only one child and a large pot of money I expect I would have made some different decisions along the way :)

 

Yes, that is my idea also, getting used to the hoops, getting used to the process. To the bolded: that's probably the best idea, although with my type A personality, I have a hard time accepting that some subjects have to become less important  ;) .

 

Thank you for your kind advice.

 

To the OP, sorry for highjacking your thread!

[wintermom]

I'm not completely sure I'm understanding your question.

 

In the Netherlands students do not take general courses at university. I have a masters degree in astrophysics and the only courses I took in my 5 years at the university were Math, Physics and Astrophysics. No languages, no literature, no history.

 

To me, that makes it even *more* important to take lots of different courses in high school (7-12grade). If I had specialised early, and taken only math/physics state exams, I would not have had any kind of all round education.

 

Oh, I'm thinking of something. Wintermom, I guess you are concerned about university entrance. It is true that if you want to study eg physics, you have to have taken the physics state exam. But other than that, if my dd passes the state exams and gets her high school diploma, every Dutch university has to accept her for whatever study she decides to take. There are only a few studies where there are limited places and there is a lottery.

 

What I find difficult in our situation, is that in order for my dd to choose her state exams, she needs to have experienced those subjects. How would she know if she likes physics or economy or philosophy, if she has never studied them. This means that Dutch students on the highest track, take up to 16(?) different subjects simultanously in 7-9th grade. At least Dutch&English&French&German, Latin&Greek, Bio&Chemistry&Physics, History&Geography, Economics, Art&Music, depending on the school other subjects can be added. This is very difficult to do at home. Especially if you want to 'teach from rest' and have time to experience Goodness, Truth and Beauty :lol:.

 

I do plan to spread out the state exams, to make them less overwhelming. On the other hand, I'm sometimes wondering, just like with a young child when you work long to teach them something they could have picked up really quickly when a bit older......sometimes I wonder if my dd would not spend way more time preparing for a state exam at 14 in stead of at 17. I don't know. I find this very difficult to decide.

 

From my understanding of the Norwegian secondary and post-secondary educational system, they choose an educational track in high school where they begin to specialize their fields of study, such as sciences, languages, arts. Once they begin their undergraduate program at university they jump right into an even more specialized subject, such as sociology.  I wasn't sure if this is typical for other European countries. 

 

In Canada we start focusing on university or college level courses in high school (e.g., academic or applied), though still take English, math, history and sciences for grades 9 and 10, and then ensure that one has the necessary courses for the college or university for which one applies (i.e., Eglish, chemistry, physics, math, but not biology or history).  However, once in the post-secondary program, there are usually a number of subjects of a more general nature one must take, and it's not until the third and fourth year of university when one can really begin to specialize.

 

With the requirements you have in the Netherlands, I can understand why only 10% of young students can make it through to univeristy. Do you have other educational options (vocational institutions) to accomodate the vast majority of students after high school?

[Tress]

With the requirements you have in the Netherlands, I can understand why only 10% of young students can make it through to univeristy. Do you have other educational options (vocational institutions) to accomodate the vast majority of students after high school?

 

Yes, we have vocational schools for the lowest track and other vocational schools for the middle track.

 

Nowadays, with everything getting more international, a part of the vocational schools of the middle track is getting added to the universities. Because....when your goals is to get 50% of the kids to university....you have to change what constitutes a university otherwise it won't work  :001_rolleyes: .

 

To steer this thread back to the OP  :blushing: :

 

OP, your thread caught my eye, because I'm very attracted to discussions/blogs/podcasts about Teaching from Rest, Truth&Beauty&Goodness, about giving my kids a real human education with time to think. In the Netherlands there are very few homeschoolers, most are radical unschoolers, so American homeschoolers who are interested in these things feel like my nearest colleagues. But the practical situation is so different when you are not in America. Anyway, I do not have a solution, just a  :grouphug: .