CPO science question -- where did you get materials for labs if you did not buy their lab stuff?

[AMJ]

I'm really looking strongly at CPO science right now, even considering switching curricula mid-year (in Earth Sciences now).  We are rather bored with Elemental Science and the college textbook I have for Geology is colorful, but a little heavy for middle school/upper elementary.  I can stomach the price of the CPO books on Amazon (teacher book is pricey), but when I went looking at the lab equipment kit I was a bit daunted by the price tag (>$1200).

 

Consequently I am posting to ask CPO users:  Where did you buy/get your lab stuff if you didn't buy their kit?  Is it important that I have the precise bathymetric map they use, or will any bathy map do?  Are any of the pieces of equipment put out by the company critical to the lessons?  Are there any pieces of their equipment you would advise me to get from them and no where else?

 

DH is an engineer, and my wood-working FIL lives on 5 acres near us.  We can mock up quite a lot of stuff (like a stream table).  I just need to know if there is anything we would be better off buying direct from them, and if anyone has any good suggestions on what they did.  I'm peeking at LuckyMama's blog now for what I can glean there.

 

 

I am also strongly considering CPO for physics/chem next year, too, so I guess the same questions will pertain.  If I recall correctly they listed a course that combined these (I think -- tired, must feed hungry kids, and get this posted before I time out again).  TIA!

 

[MEmama]

We used it for earth science this year. I recycled a plastic lettuce box for a GeoBox (free, after I ate the salad greens), bought a jug of water with a spout for the flow exercises (99 cents), and would have used a foil baking sheet for the water stream table but we didn't do that lab. We did skip a lot of the observations, but still the most expensive thing I bought was incense cones.

 

You can print off a bathymetric map--the one on their site is terrible, but they aren't hard to find online.

 

I can't really see a need for the teacher guide. We bought the textbook used for around $30, so all told I spent around $35 for the year. I will be reusing a rock collection I already have on hand, however, so that would be another $30 or so (or just go rock collecting, which is what I'd do now if I didn't have it).

[Nemom]

Ditto the previous poster. I made a trip to the hardware & dollar store for supplies. Worked great.

[AMJ]

We used it for earth science this year. I recycled a plastic lettuce box for a GeoBox (free, after I ate the salad greens), bought a jug of water with a spout for the flow exercises (99 cents), and would have used a foil baking sheet for the water stream table but we didn't do that lab. We did skip a lot of the observations, but still the most expensive thing I bought was incense cones.

 

You can print off a bathymetric map--the one on their site is terrible, but they aren't hard to find online.

 

I can't really see a need for the teacher guide. We bought the textbook used for around $30, so all told I spent around $35 for the year. I will be reusing a rock collection I already have on hand, however, so that would be another $30 or so (or just go rock collecting, which is what I'd do now if I didn't have it).

 

Rocks?  I have rocks.  I am considered an oddity here in SE TX, because I have rocks (there are no native rocks here, other than iron concretions).  Lots of rocks.  Some of them "specimens"! 

 

I am also something of a map snob.  Not a collector, just rather picky about quality and certain features being present (if any are missing then it is a picture, not a map!).  So, if theirs is terrible and any bathy map will do then I will go find a good one.

 

What were the incense cones for?  Any chance the scented candles I'd like to go away might suffice instead?  I'm looking for an excuse to use those smelly things up....

 

Thanks for the feedback!

[MEmama]

The incense was for tracking air flow as it warms and cools. We had to do it outside--I'd forgotten how strong it is! You'll have to be able to see the smoke rising and falling, so I don't think your candles will work (though you'll need a tea light too).

 

Honestly, I wouldn't stock up on a year's worth of equipment. Unless you know for sure that all the labs will be beneficial for your child (or they just like doing them), you might not find yourself doing many. At any rate, there's no need to spend $1200 on middle school geology--save it for outsourcing lab science when they are in high school. ;)

[athomeontheprairie]

I am switching to CPO earth science next year. I ordered my books get, off the wtm boards, I had more than one person contact me about buying their copy-at very reasonable rates.

I intend to go through the tm this summer then decide which labs we will be doing. I emailed CPO and asked for a detailed list of materials needed, almost everything I think I can mock up. I *think* a trip to Lowe's will be all I need.

if you search for old CPO threads there is a blog listed several times where the lady made the convection chamber.

Redsquirrel uses CPO, I found her posts helpful.

[redsquirrel]

First of all, google is your friend. For the CPO bathymetric map, just google something like... 'cpo science bathymetric map' and you will get a PDF hit. There is your map. Save it to your hard drive and you can print out as many as you like.

 

I did spend some cash, but I accept that as part of homeschooling science. Plus, I find that I am MUCH more likely to actually teach the darn science if I know I have spent the cash on the equipment.  But, you know yourself best. If you think it would be better to only purchase a few months worth of materials at a time, and see how well you do with the program, by all means do what you need to do. I am of the opinion that this program does require some forethought though. If you don't have what you need, it is NOT open and go. If you do gather ahead of time you will have a much easier time of it.

 

I bought most of my stuff from home science tools. I just opened up the 'student record sheets' PDFs on the CPO site and on the upper right hand corner of each demonstration/experiment is what you need. You don't need to contact CPO at all. It's all right there in the materials.

 

http://www.cposcience.com/home/2/ForEducators/MiddleSchoolEarthScience/tabid/261/Default.aspx

 

I just filled up my cart or tried to figure out what I could make due. For example, I didn't buy much glassware (beakers etc) but I did buy rock samples, density cubes, a rock testing kit (huge hit, btw), a couple thermometers to make a hygrometer (those were super cheap), I think I bought a cute 'weather station' kit because you record the weather for a month, I bought the spectometer but it was only 5$ and soooo cool. I made the stream table like luckymama did, using a paint tray liner, I used a plastic underbed storage box to make the wave box (literally just a shallow box is needed). I own a big bucket with a spigot b/c we use it for homebrewing, and overflow can was handy but not necessary.

 

The rock samples ended up being a better buy from Rainbow resources. I bought the sedimentary, metamorphic and igneous. I think I went with RR because I would get more rocks per buck that way, lol. I should add that I was already placing my order at RR so it wasn't a big deal. Given the shipping costs, I wouldn't ever buy just rock samples from RR. Anyway, it ended being perfect for what we needed.  Who knows if RR even has the same rock samples these days. This was a few years ago.

 

There were very few things I couldn't do. I think...maybe is there something with two lights and plants? Or is that in the life science? Maybe it was about the water cycle. Anyway, I don't think I could do that. And there was a 'make your own barometer' that I skipped and regretted skipping. And we skipped one where you use a geobox to make a topographical map. However, I think that since then I have seen kits of that for sale and I will try to do it with ds2.

 

http://www.hometrainingtools.com/contour-model-kit/p/RM-CONTOUR/ 

[AMJ]

First of all, google is your friend. For the CPO bathymetric map, just google something like... 'cpo science bathymetric map' and you will get a PDF hit. There is your map. Save it to your hard drive and you can print out as many as you like.

 

I did spend some cash, but I accept that as part of homeschooling science. Plus, I find that I am MUCH more likely to actually teach the darn science if I know I have spent the cash on the equipment.  But, you know yourself best. If you think it would be better to only purchase a few months worth of materials at a time, and see how well you do with the program, by all means do what you need to do. I am of the opinion that this program does require some forethought though. If you don't have what you need, it is NOT open and go. If you do gather ahead of time you will have a much easier time of it.

 

I bought most of my stuff from home science tools. I just opened up the 'student record sheets' PDFs on the CPO site and on the upper right hand corner of each demonstration/experiment is what you need. You don't need to contact CPO at all. It's all right there in the materials.

 

http://www.cposcience.com/home/2/ForEducators/MiddleSchoolEarthScience/tabid/261/Default.aspx

 

I just filled up my cart or tried to figure out what I could make due. For example, I didn't buy much glassware (beakers etc) but I did buy rock samples, density cubes, a rock testing kit (huge hit, btw), a couple thermometers to make a hygrometer (those were super cheap), I think I bought a cute 'weather station' kit because you record the weather for a month, I bought the spectometer but it was only 5$ and soooo cool. I made the stream table like luckymama did, using a paint tray liner, I used a plastic underbed storage box to make the wave box (literally just a shallow box is needed). I own a big bucket with a spigot b/c we use it for homebrewing, and overflow can was handy but not necessary.

 

The rock samples ended up being a better buy from Rainbow resources. I bought the sedimentary, metamorphic and igneous. I think I went with RR because I would get more rocks per buck that way, lol. I should add that I was already placing my order at RR so it wasn't a big deal. Given the shipping costs, I wouldn't ever buy just rock samples from RR. Anyway, it ended being perfect for what we needed.  Who knows if RR even has the same rock samples these days. This was a few years ago.

 

There were very few things I couldn't do. I think...maybe is there something with two lights and plants? Or is that in the life science? Maybe it was about the water cycle. Anyway, I don't think I could do that. And there was a 'make your own barometer' that I skipped and regretted skipping. And we skipped one where you use a geobox to make a topographical map. However, I think that since then I have seen kits of that for sale and I will try to do it with ds2.

 

http://www.hometrainingtools.com/contour-model-kit/p/RM-CONTOUR/ 

 

Thank you for the descriptions and the links.  I am resting quite assured that there is nothing unique in the CPO equipment set and I can freely gather my own things.

 

I have rocks.  I have lots of rocks, including a college specimen kit.  :D   I will need to pick up a couple of loupes and some testing gear, but I think I have the rocks covered.  DH really hopes so, since rocks are almost as big an addiction for me as books are.  I have my grandmother's rock collection from her honeymoon....  Yes, we have heirloom rocks.  Not cut gems -- ROCKS.

 

When it comes to the "geobox" most any item that fits entirely inside a plastic bin with spare room will do.  When DH heard about the geobox exercise he promptly pointed to his 3D printer and said he could print out whatever I wanted that we could render in the software.  I can have him print landforms if I like, and/or we can also do "topo" maps of ordinary household things that can stand submersion, like toys or certain nick-nacks we have.  DH also promptly turned the idea around to create an auxiliary exercise: using a topo map to enter data into the rendering software, and then printing out a model of the landscape featured (the geobox exercise in reverse, basically).  We could do them back-to-back, taking a topo map, rendering it, printing it, then submerging it to draw our own topo map.  Comparing the starting and ending topo maps should be interesting, to say the least, and if we use a topo map illustrating someplace we will visit (say, Aunt S's sheep ranch in SD) we can even compare the 3D print of the landscape to the actual landscape.

 

Are we geeks or what? :w00t:

 

I will pay special attention to the "make your own barometer" exercise, now that you mention it.  It should be fun to do, and even more fun to compare it to various barometers over the ages (including the joke "Rocky Mountain Barometer", which is a piece of rope on a plaque).

 

Some days for a "stream table" I think we could just go to the ditch in front of our house, or out to my IL's place after a rain.  I'll probably make one anyway, because it is fun to play with sand and water.  :D

 

[athomeontheprairie]

You don't need to contact CPO at all. It's all right there in the materials.

 

 

*******for the life of me, I could not find the list on my phone! I knew I'd was there... but I spent WAY too long not finding it*******

 

 

I just filled up my cart or tried to figure out what I could make due. For example, I didn't buy much glassware (beakers etc) but I did buy rock samples, density cubes, a rock testing kit (huge hit, btw), a couple thermometers to make a hygrometer (those were super cheap), I think I bought a cute 'weather station' kit because you record the weather for a month, I bought the spectometer but it was only 5$ and soooo cool. I made the stream table like luckymama did, using a paint tray liner, I used a plastic underbed storage box to make the wave box (literally just a shallow box is needed). I own a big bucket with a spigot b/c we use it for homebrewing, and overflow can was handy but not necessary.

 

The rock samples ended up being a better buy from Rainbow resources. I bought the sedimentary, metamorphic and igneous. I think I went with RR because I would get more rocks per buck that way, lol. I should add that I was already placing my order at RR so it wasn't a big deal. Given the shipping costs, I wouldn't ever buy just rock samples from RR. Anyway, it ended being perfect for what we needed. Who knows if RR even has the same rock samples these days. This was a few years ago.

 

*******I don't have an extensive rock collection (or any to speak of). What types of rocks are needed?*********

 

 

 

 

There were very few things I couldn't do. I think...maybe is there something with two lights and plants? Or is that in the life science? Maybe it was about the water cycle. Anyway, I don't think I could do that. And there was a 'make your own barometer' that I skipped and regretted skipping. And we skipped one where you use a geobox to make a topographical map. However, I think that since then I have seen kits of that for sale and I will try to do it with ds2.

 

 

********where did you find these? Or do you know what they were called? **********

 

http://www.hometrainingtools.com/contour-model-kit/p/RM-CONTOUR/

 

*********this link is broken for be :-( ***********

[redsquirrel]

 

You don't need to contact CPO at all. It's all right there in the materials.

 

 

*******for the life of me, I could not find the list on my phone! I knew I'd was there... but I spent WAY too long not finding it*******

 

 

I just filled up my cart or tried to figure out what I could make due. For example, I didn't buy much glassware (beakers etc) but I did buy rock samples, density cubes, a rock testing kit (huge hit, btw), a couple thermometers to make a hygrometer (those were super cheap), I think I bought a cute 'weather station' kit because you record the weather for a month, I bought the spectometer but it was only 5$ and soooo cool. I made the stream table like luckymama did, using a paint tray liner, I used a plastic underbed storage box to make the wave box (literally just a shallow box is needed). I own a big bucket with a spigot b/c we use it for homebrewing, and overflow can was handy but not necessary.

 

The rock samples ended up being a better buy from Rainbow resources. I bought the sedimentary, metamorphic and igneous. I think I went with RR because I would get more rocks per buck that way, lol. I should add that I was already placing my order at RR so it wasn't a big deal. Given the shipping costs, I wouldn't ever buy just rock samples from RR. Anyway, it ended being perfect for what we needed. Who knows if RR even has the same rock samples these days. This was a few years ago.

 

*******I don't have an extensive rock collection (or any to speak of). What types of rocks are needed?*********

 

 

 

 

There were very few things I couldn't do. I think...maybe is there something with two lights and plants? Or is that in the life science? Maybe it was about the water cycle. Anyway, I don't think I could do that. And there was a 'make your own barometer' that I skipped and regretted skipping. And we skipped one where you use a geobox to make a topographical map. However, I think that since then I have seen kits of that for sale and I will try to do it with ds2.

 

 

********where did you find these? Or do you know what they were called? **********

 

http://www.hometrainingtools.com/contour-model-kit/p/RM-CONTOUR/

 

*********this link is broken for be :-( ***********

 

 

At home on the prarie:

 

If you want to know what materials, such as rocks, are needed then you need to go to the CPO website and look at the section that pertains to the middle school earth and space textbook:

 

http://www.cposcience.com/home/2/ForEducators/MiddleSchoolEarthScience/tabid/261/Default.aspx

 

this is, IMO, the heart of the CPO program. The text is a rather standard middle school textbook, better than many b/c it doesn't talk down to the kids, but just a textbook. Look on the right hand side of the page and look for "Student Record Sheets"  Click on that and it will expand.  You will see units 1-6. Each unit is there in PDF form.  Click on unit one and all the demonstrations and experiments for unit 1 will download to your computer. It is called "studying earth science" Look through it, it is all the activities your student will be doing.  At the top right hand side of each 'Investigation' you will see a grey box. In that grey box are the materials needed for that particular investigation. That will tell you what you need.  Go through all the units and look at all the investigations and you will see what is needed.

 

I am sorry the link is broken.  Go to Home Science Tools (you can google it) and put contour model kit in the search box and it should be the first hit you get.

 

And FWIW, you don't need an "extensive' rock collection, just 3-6 samples of the the types of rocks. This is pretty standard kid science stuff.

 

 

[athomeontheprairie]

Red squirrel, thanks. I've already downloaded the student sheets. Just waiting for time to go through them :-)

I have no problem searching through the material. None. But I am curious to know what items people are glad they bought. (Like the spectrometer!)

And the contour model kit... CPO cams theirs something different, and it is more expensive!

 

I really do appreciate your help. Sorry if I sound like a broken record.

 

OP, sorry for hijacking your thread

[redsquirrel]

Red squirrel, thanks. I've already downloaded the student sheets. Just waiting for time to go through them :-)

I have no problem searching through the material. None. But I am curious to know what items people are glad they bought. (Like the spectrometer!)

And the contour model kit... CPO cams theirs something different, and it is more expensive!

 

I really do appreciate your help. Sorry if I sound like a broken record.

 

OP, sorry for hijacking your thread

 

Don't listen to CPO, lol. They are a textbook publisher for public schools. They aren't thinking of homeschoolers. At least one person who posted here said she contacted her local CPO rep and was told it would be impossible to make CPO work at home. Well, of course it isn't. But they don't want schools thinking the program will work with any old materials. I bet there are some science teachers out there making CPO work for them b/c their school doesn't have the budget to buy all those gadgets.

 

They have stuff that is made to their specs that they sell to schools using their program. But, if the point it to teach a student about how to make a topographical map, then that is what you need, not their special one.

 

Now, I will admit that their physical science program defeated me. It did require a lot of specialized material and even the workarounds were more expensive than I could afford.

[AMJ]

Red squirrel, thanks. I've already downloaded the student sheets. Just waiting for time to go through them :-)

I have no problem searching through the material. None. But I am curious to know what items people are glad they bought. (Like the spectrometer!)

And the contour model kit... CPO cams theirs something different, and it is more expensive!

 

I really do appreciate your help. Sorry if I sound like a broken record.

 

OP, sorry for hijacking your thread

 

No apologies needed.  I consider it all pertinent!

[AMJ]

Don't listen to CPO, lol. They are a textbook publisher for public schools. They aren't thinking of homeschoolers. At least one person who posted here said she contacted her local CPO rep and was told it would be impossible to make CPO work at home. Well, of course it isn't. But they don't want schools thinking the program will work with any old materials. I bet there are some science teachers out there making CPO work for them b/c their school doesn't have the budget to buy all those gadgets.

 

They have stuff that is made to their specs that they sell to schools using their program. But, if the point it to teach a student about how to make a topographical map, then that is what you need, not their special one.

 

Now, I will admit that their physical science program defeated me. It did require a lot of specialized material and even the workarounds were more expensive than I could afford.

 

I noticed that those student sheets have illustrations showing the CPO equipment in use, and some of the instructions are written in a way that doesn't make full sense unless you are using their gear.  Nonetheless, I believe there's enough info there that DH and I can mock up most anything we need, now that I know there's no proprietary info in the lab sets themselves (at least as far as Earth Science goes).

 

I will take a closer look at the physical science program's requirements and costs.  It was tempting me....

 

And yes, they cater to schools, and they can successfully get schools to pay more for "standard" and "aligned" gear.  Office supply companies do similar, charging more for supplies that are ordered by companies. 

[redsquirrel]

I noticed that those student sheets have illustrations showing the CPO equipment in use, and some of the instructions are written in a way that doesn't make full sense unless you are using their gear.  Nonetheless, I believe there's enough info there that DH and I can mock up most anything we need, now that I know there's no proprietary info in the lab sets themselves (at least as far as Earth Science goes).

 

I will take a closer look at the physical science program's requirements and costs.  It was tempting me....

 

And yes, they cater to schools, and they can successfully get schools to pay more for "standard" and "aligned" gear.  Office supply companies do similar, charging more for supplies that are ordered by companies. 

 

Really? Which ones? It's been three years since I used it and 2 more until I pull it out again, so my memory is fuzzy. I don't remember having any real problems with the Earth and Space. But, if I had my own..rock testing kit...for example, I was likely to just use the instructions that came with what I had and pay less attention to the CPO sheets. If the point was to learn about streak tests and scale of hardness etc then that was what I focused on, not filling in the boxes for CPO. But if I could make it work, I did.

 

I focused heavily on things like making graphs, any math work such as averaging or formulas, comparison charts etc. Learning those skills is really the point of middle school science. Earth science is just the packaging.

 

[athomeontheprairie]

I focused heavily on things like making graphs, any math work such as averaging or formulas, comparison charts etc. Learning those skills is really the point of middle school science. Earth science is just the packaging.

 

This clarified in an instant all the random thoughts floating around in my head since the "delayed science" thread. I saw my reasons for middle school science, but this his the nail on the head. Thanks for posting :-)

[AMJ]

Really? Which ones? It's been three years since I used it and 2 more until I pull it out again, so my memory is fuzzy. I don't remember having any real problems with the Earth and Space. But, if I had my own..rock testing kit...for example, I was likely to just use the instructions that came with what I had and pay less attention to the CPO sheets. If the point was to learn about streak tests and scale of hardness etc then that was what I focused on, not filling in the boxes for CPO. But if I could make it work, I did.

 

I focused heavily on things like making graphs, any math work such as averaging or formulas, comparison charts etc. Learning those skills is really the point of middle school science. Earth science is just the packaging.

 

 

It's mostly a matter of deciphering what is going on in the investigations.  They instruct you to have students turn the spigot to certain marks (that are presumably on their bucket's spigot, since there were no teacher instructions on how to mark the spigot), what certain pieces of equipment really are (like a "dispersion tray" -- I think that's what they called it) -- stuff like that.  The investigations and activities are written with instructions using CPO's specific equipment.  Also, without actually seeing the equipment it's hard to tell if there is some specific information required (for instance, a certain area or specific units of measure covered/used in maps).  This last was my reason for starting this thread.

 

Basically, since they slant the lessons to use their equipment and don't provide guidelines for using alternative equipment it requires the teacher to study the lessons more carefully in advance to determine just what equipment is really needed -- more time and care than if the teacher were using CPO gear.  This is an observation, not a criticism.  I'm still happily anticipating getting going with CPO science.  I just need to do some homework and collection of gear before we do many of the investigations and activities.

 

Two side notes: 

 

I ordered the teacher manual, one student text, and two student investigation manuals.  I wish now that I hadn't ordered the investigation manuals, since there are .pdf versions of these (with more pages, giving students spaces and graphing grids in which to write their answers) for free online.  I didn't realize the books wouldn't be as good as the free .pdf files.  I ordered books to safe me the time and hassle of printing off the .pdf's, but now I'm going to do that anyway.

 

Had I been able to look at the teacher manual before buying I likely would not have ordered that either, but now that I have it I will use it to study up on what brick & mortar teachers tend to see (all of the extra stuff not found in a student book).  It doesn't have copies of the student text's pages in it, so I have to use the student book, too, when planning out lessons.  I won't order in more student texts this year since it is getting so late in the school year, but if we continue with CPO next year I will certainly be sure to order one for each of us, so we don't have to share.  (I might still order in the teacher's manual next year -- I'll have to see.)

 

 

As for your second paragraph -- that's good advice, and a good reality check.  Thanks!

[redsquirrel]

The teacher books have the answers for the student record sheets. This comes in handy and saves time! I put the answers to use when we occasionally couldn't manage an activity. If the whole point of the activity was to make a graph or figure averages etc then I would just give the data to my son and have him do the rest of the activity. That was a big help on occasion.

 

The teacher books also have the answers for the end of section/chapter review questions. We did these orally b/c it took much less time and it was more interesting that way.

 

Be aware that there are 2 versions of CPO books and a teacher's book to go with each.There is the 'focus on' books, which are specific to California, and the national books just called "CPO life science" or whatever. The different versions are not identical. I think in the "Focus on life science" book the information is maybe in different order? The "Focus on Earth Science" doesn't have the section on space. The book I have is CPO Earth Science and it ends with a space unit. The space unit is moved to the "Focus on Physical Science" book.  So make sure your teacher book and your student book match up b/c there are differences.

 

ETA: I am sorry you bought the student record sheets.  :sad:  You might want to search this site or forum (do a google site search) for CPO threads. There are lots of threads with hints and tips about buying, implementing and using CPO. I am sure things like being able to print out all the student record sheets has come up a number of times.