visual basic at CC or Teencoder?

[cave canem]

My 11th-grader, not a STEM kid but studious, wants to take a programming class.  We would like CC for the transcript, but I am not sure visual BASIC is the way to go. 

My husband and I are STEM and would be able to provide plenty of help/support for either option. 

Any opinions?

[merylvdm]

Python is seen as a good language to start with - no one really uses Visual Basic anymore so I wouldn't recommend that. Java or Javascript or Ruby would be other options.

[cave canem]

Thank you.  Yes, I think it is weird that the CC, which feeds a lot of engineers to the state flagship, starts the sequence this way.  I really wanted the outsourced class, but maybe we should just program at home.

[Tsuga]

That is weird. I'd start with something more useful and simple too. They don't have CS 101 or has he done that already?

[cave canem]

From the catalog (http://catalog.middlesex.mass.edu):

CSC 101 - Introduction To Computer Science

Introduction to programming using Visual Basic, an object oriented/event-driven language. The course emphasizes planning and then creating interactive Windows applications. Projects will include the use of dialogue boxes and toolbox objects such as label, textbox, checkbox, listbox, command button, frame, and picturebox. The coding of procedures and functions will incorporate standard programming techniques such as declaring variables, implementing loops and decision constructs.

Prerequisite(s): Eligible for MAT 100 [intermediate Algebra] and ENG 101 [English Comp]

 

There is also

CSC 151 - Programming I

In this course, the fundamental constructs of a programming language will be explored in concepts such as: memory, algorithms, data types, operators, simple input/output processing, sequential processing, decision structures, repetition, functions, arrays, and pointers. Course content will be delivered using the C++ programming language.

Prerequisite(s): Eligible for MAT 100; and completion of CSC 101 with a C or better.

 

I don't know whether the prerequisite can be avoided or whether that would be advisable.

[rlestina]

If they are good with something self-paced, I'd highly recommend Learn Python the Hard Way - my kids are working thru that and enjoying it very much.  And yes, I'd also recommend Python rather than VB.

[Tsuga]

Oh ugh, sounds like their visual basic work is a weed-out course, perhaps taught by an instructor who may not have the skills to teach the other languages. That's frustrating.

 

Wait.

 

Eligible for Math 100? You don't even have to finish the first college-level math?

 

So, these are people who have not yet managed to get to college-level math, but they are okay with them in CS classes?!? Just for reference--a certain community college with which I am familiar has for its intro course intros:

 

CSC 110 (101 is like, here is a computer, here is what it does):

 

Language: Python. Additional 2 hours of lab per week are required during computer center hours. PREREQ: MATH 098 with 2.0 or higher (I checked and this is the same as your Math 100, intermediate algebra).

 

The next up course is CSC 142, with significant math and technical writing courses in between:

 

Language: JAVA. Additional 2 hours per week required during open computer lab hours. PREREQ: MATH&141 with a 2.0 (this is precalc) or higher AND CSC 110 witha 2.0 or higher, or permission.

 

I would not suggest avoiding the prereq in your case mainly because this course series appears to be targeted at remedial learners, you know? I'm not saying you NEED calculus for programming, obviously not--but I think that if your son is very bright, he might be bored to tears in a class in which people are taking it to get their math credits out of the way so they don't have to take pre-calc, you know? It is not going to be a really driven environment.

 

I mention the "get the math reqs out of the way" because it is precisely to avoid that behavior, that the math requirement at the college whose offerings I posted, requires completion of Math 098. So that people won't do CS to avoid math. First you prove basic skills, then you move on.

 

 

[G5052]

Frankly I wouldn't have any problems sending one of mine to the CSC 101 as described for dual enrollment.  Yes, Visual Basic is on it's way down, but they're learning very basic data structures in that class that will serve them well later on if they take more.  At the community college level you'll almost always see a prerequisite class like this before getting into programming with a more widely used language.  For high school this would be fine IMHO.  I wouldn't jump into the CSC 151 class unless they have truly worked with the structures they list, i.e. objects, loops, functions, etc. 

 

At one of the community colleges where I teach, we have an "Intro" class that looks very similar to this, but it uses Java.  And yes, it's a weed-out class.  IMHO it isn't a hard class, but it has a lot of homework.  Then they go to Computer Science I, which is equivalent to the first semester of computer science at a 4-year school.  It also is a Java-based class.  Students can by-pass "Intro" class fairly easily by proving equivalent credit including some experience with Java.

[Trilliums]

One of my sons took visual basic at the high school and then went on to take AP CS which is Java based.  Visual basic was a nice gentle intro to programming.  In his AP CS class, a couple of students  who did not take Visual Basic dropped the class because it moved too quickly.  The instructor says this happens each year.  This son actually plans to major in CS and is pretty good at it.  He found visual basic useful, although he did take it as a freshman so it didn't prevent him from taking more programming in high school.  He is now a junior doing an independent study in data structures with the public high school teacher.

 

If your child isn't particularly interested in a CS field, i think the visual basic class could be just what they need as an intro class.  Also, if they plan on continuing to take classes at the CC, it is nice to stay with their sequence. 

 

Does your son have any plans for after high school?  If they are considering colleges, you could look into the programming classes offered at their target schools and try to figure out which programming would be most useful.  I know at our local U, they start with Python but the 2nd year classes can be done in python or Java.  My older son took  AP CS and was able to transition to Python on his own pretty smoothly.   Both of my boys are STEM oriented and taking these classes with an instructor was hugely beneficial.  Not saying other options aren't good, but they definitely stretched themselves and learned so much. 

 

GL with your choice!