Robotics - FLL/FTC/FRC?

[Matryoshka]

I've been trying to find a Robotics team for dd13 for a few years now.  The local FLL team would have been the obvious choice, but it's all boys.  3 teams, about 30 total.  Older dd did this team for a year, and actually had a good experience (and is now in her third year as the only girl on the high school's FTC team), but younger dd is much more reluctant to be the only girl. 

 

So, I found another team (30 min away instead of 3 min).  I didn't know much about it except that it did have at least a couple girls and would accept her as an 8th grader even though it's a high school team.  She attended their open house this week and thought it looked good.  Turns out it's an FRC team.  That means they make their own robot using a machine shop (more than FTC does, they more assemble it?)  Since they can't afford more than one robot ($$$!), it's just one big team, they're thinking it will end up being about 25-30 kids, with maybe 2-4 girls (which is fine with dd, she just doesn't want to be the only girl).

 

I had tried to get her to go to the FLL's first meeting; it has a new meeting place, and it's been two years since she last tried it.  It seems like the team's got way more organized and less chaotic in the past couple years - last year one of their teams won a trophy at States.  She insisted that she'd tried it and flat-out refused to go, even though I'd pointed out there had to be a ton of turn-over since then.  Well, got an email that enough girls turned up this time to perhaps make a full team (min. 6 girls).  I'm trying to convince dd to at least attend a meeting to try it out and meet the kids. She's still saying she'd rather do the farther away one, but has agreed to check it out.  She'd age out of this team next year, but they're starting an FTC team she could transition in to (or if she ends up going to ps high school, she could join the one older dd is on).

 

Anyone have experience with these different variations?  I'm having a hard time deciding on the Pros/cons of each one...

 

- FRC team is much larger, she'd have less to do vs. the 6-10 kids on an FLL team

- But she might be annoyed by the NXT programming vs. the Robot C (or C++?) used in FRC?  She's done some Arduino and C++ programming already.

- She'd be in the oldest group of kids in FLL, the youngest in FRC

- FRC team she could stick with through high school vs. switching to FTC in a year

- FRC team is 30 min, away but free to join; FLL is 3 min. away but $200 (gas might make this completely moot or cheaper?)

 

Feedback or thoughts?

[momacacia]

No experience, but you have my empathy as I'd love oldest dd to do something like this, but they are all a good drive away and I don't a sense that there are (m)any girls involved.

[Pixie]

For a 8th grader my choice would definitely be FLL, I think FRC would be overwhelming. Also FRC is a very short, intense build period (6 weeks) and I know the FRC team here spends many evening till 11pm-midnight building so that would probably not very practical for you to get her there and back. My daughter joined a FRC team in 9th grade at a high school 15 minutes from us but she ended up not really participating because they called meetings at the last minute or forgot to call her (it didn't hellp that our FLL season overlapped and we went to state at the same time). She may try FRC again this year if the team is at her school and if she can handle FRC and FTC at the same time. 

As far as girls' involvement. I started coaching FLL 4 years ago, my daughter was the only girl on the team. Then we added one more then next year and then we had 3 last year. This year we have 2 on the FLL team and our newly formed FTC team has 5 girls and only one boy. I never thought we would get to that point 4 years ago. When we go to tournaments there are not very many girls but last year the top 2 teams at State were girls teams. 

[Julie of KY]

I've not done either personally, but I've had family and friends do both. FLL and FRC are very different.

 

FLL is aimed at a younger crowd and the competition involves more than just the robotic challenge. The full competition also involves public speaking and an engineering design challenge (on paper).

 

FRC is a much larger team (like 25 students on average), but all the students tend to break up and have different jobs working and designing their one robot. This is a much bigger, more complicated robot. The FRC is only a robotic competition if I understand correctly. The local team has about 25 students that work 3 hours a day, six days a week for six weeks before the competition. Everyone stays busy.

 

Google videos of both and you'll see some of the differences in the robotic challenges.

[Stellalarella]

Last year the cost for a team to get into an FRC tournament was $5000 for the team.  It takes a lot of fundraising and sponsors to field an FRC team.  Plus, when you go to the tournaments (which is probably going to require an overnight stay unless you have one in  your very city--these are 2 days events) there are hotel/travel/meal costs involved.  So because of the high cost to participate, I think I would want to clarify with the FRC team you are interested in joining what free means.  If that team already has big time sponsors involved that is great, but I would ask questions about fundraiser requirements and the travel expenses.

 

You can only have so many people in the pits at an FRC event.  As in, NOT VERY MANY. Only a couple kids are going to drive the robot.  Only a few kids are going to get to build the robot because you can only have so many people standing over a robot chassis.  Only a few kids are going to code the robot.   Other kids will become scouts at the tournament.  A lot of kids on an FRC team will be sitting in the bleachers at the tournament cheering the team on.   Some kids will make the safety video.  Some kids will be the spokespersons for the team.   Some kids work on the branding/marketing strategy.  

 

My son is heading into his 3rd year of FRC.  We haven't done FTC or FLL, so I can't speak to that.  

 

His team is also working on a city wide arduino robot challenge because FRC is so, so expensive and it doesn't really give every kid the hands-on experience.  

 

FRC is amazing, but it is complicated to navigate, in my opinion.