Geometry (pls advise if you dislike/struggle with Geom & have btdt) &/or used

[74Heaven]

Hi,

 

All my homeschooling life, I have dreaded two things: high school science and Geometry. The former because I really don't like it; the latter because I just don't get it.

 

When I say I don't get it, I mean it. All those spatial reasoning tests, shapes exercises, three-dimensional drawings, etc. I was a great student in all but three classes during my high school and college careers: Geometry (HS), Computer Programming (with a non-native-English speaking instructor who I could often not understand) and technical drawing.

 

My mind really struggles with this type of thinking. As I feared, my math-phobic 11th grader (who has struggled with math since Kindergarten) doesn't get it either.

 

We are using Chalkdust 9with the older Larson textbook) and she is on the 5th lesson (all easy as can be for the most part) and she is just not getting it.

 

I have a strange idea/solution. We puchased BJU curriculum and I didn't need a math so I purchased PreCalculus (12th gr) math just in case we "got there" at the end of this year. I am wondering if having a second geometry curric might help my dtr - i.e. having two instructors with diff. explanations. (This sounds like a shot in the dark but maybe?)

 

Is there a DIVE CD for Geometry? (We have never used one - I'm just grasping at straws.)

 

What would a geometry tutor do/help with? I don't think it is in the budget.

 

Thanks for any help you can give me?

Lisaj

[74Heaven]

Btw, I wanted to add a few things. One, dtr has completed Alg. 2 and managed a B- thru lots of do-overs and painstaking side-by-side with Mom sessions. I'm sure we are both ADD - does that affect this type of reasoning?

 

--Why do I see tons of algebra-related struggles and I-can't-do-this posts and hardly any on Geometry? Am I missing these posts or are we the odd man out when it comes to Geometry?

 

--One of the first oh-no moments of Geometry has come up with we are asked to evaluate figures (drawn on paper) for rotational symmetry? IOW, the shape has to be visualized as it turns clockwise (or counterclockwise) for how it will retain symmetry. My mind can barely go one turn, let alone 30/60/90, etc.

 

lisaj

[Jann in TX]

I HATED Geometry in HS. I was 'gifted' and had finished Algebra 2 in 8th grade--our school did not offer any higher maths so I did not take math in 9th grade...we moved in 10th grade and I was placed in Geometry. Teacher was VERY dry and boring...also HER way was the ONLY way. Period. If you added in any extra steps or if you solved the proof using a VALID alternative solution you were wrong. She would assign 10-20 problems per night and then in class she would randomly (like choosing a number out of a hat) choose 1 or 2to be graded. I had terrible luck. I would work 19 correctly and the one I missed would happen to be the one graded... I made my first and only B in that class...Teacher's like her made me WANT to be a Math teacher... I KNEW I could do better!

 

I started liking Geometry the first time I officially had to teach it--about 10 or so years ago. It suddenly made sense... I still have difficulty 'seeing' rotations and some 3 dimensional objects/graphs but I know that it is just the way I'm wired--not everyone can do this...but I CAN figure them out...my DH just 'sees' them...arggggg--he is an expert at playing pool too...

 

I taught my dd Geometry last year...she was/is attending PS and her teacher had major burn out... she would assign homework and the next class period she would grade the assignment THEN she would teach the lesson over it...sheesh--talk about confusing...I did a LOT of local tutoring last year...

 

I will be teaching a few homeschool students Geometry once again this year. I'm actually looking forward to it. My plan is to begin by talking through proofs--helping my students to learn how to follow the logic. I will also require them to work some proofs--more in the first half of the course...but I will adjust the lessons according to their abilities--I want to challenge them not frustrate them!

 

If your dd keeps getting bogged down I really suggest you look for a tutor--someone to help work with your dd and the way that SHE thinks...

 

I also agree with you on purchasing an alternative text.

[74Heaven]

I HATED Geometry in HS. ...........

 

I started liking Geometry the first time I officially had to teach it--about 10 or so years ago. It suddenly made sense... I still have difficulty 'seeing' rotations and some 3 dimensional objects/graphs but I know that it is just the way I'm wired--not everyone can do this...but I CAN figure them out...my DH just 'sees' them...arggggg--he is an expert at playing pool too...

 

 

If your dd keeps getting bogged down I really suggest you look for a tutor--someone to help work with your dd and the way that SHE thinks...

 

 

I also agree with you on purchasing an alternative text.

 

Jann, thank you. I appreciate that someone else understands when I say "my brain doesn't think that way". I am pretty worried, though, when you say you finally began to like it!!!

 

So thanks for the encouragement, I'll ask around about tutoring. Once again, I hear about lots of algebra tutors but hardly any geometry tutors. I'm sure they are out there - doubling up on both - or specializing in geometry.

 

Love to hear some more ideas and comments.

 

Thanks!

Lisaj

[MyThreeSons]

I happen to LOVE Geometry, spatial reasoning puzzles, mechanical drawing, etc. -- but I recognize that not everyone thinks as I do.

 

I'm providing a link below to a Geometry text that uses a hands-on, discovery approach to Geometry. You can view a sample chapter online. They also provide lots of "extras" online, including dynamic explorations where you can, for example, change one angle in a triangle and see how the others change, but the sum stays at 180.

 

I first used it several years ago with my oldest son and a group of other homeschoolers who didn't like math. We had lots of fun, and they learned. The next year I taught Geometry at our co-op as a last-minute replacement. The students had already purchased Jacobs' text, so that's what I used. It was okay, nothing really wrong with it, but I switched back to Discovering Geometry last year, and I'm sticking with it.

 

http://www.keypress.com/x7815.xml

[langfam]

Jann,

 

What text will you be using for geometry?

 

DD used TT last year and actually worked very well for her, but she had already done Saxon up to Adv. Math 1, so it was really review for her. We no longer use Saxon and for my son who will do geometry next year, I'm just not sure what to use for him. I really don't care for Jacob's.... preferrring more direct explanations of concepts. I've read very bad reviews of the Chalkdust's Geometry text on Amazon. I've been thinking of mathwithoutborders. Their geometry course appears very 3 dimensional. Have you seen it?

http://www.homeschoolmath.net/reviews/geometry_guided_inquiry.php

 

Just wondering what you will be using.

[Laurie in CA]

I used Chalkdust with my oldest son and Discovering Geometry with my middle son. I didn't think Chalkdust would have worked with middle son even though I am a total Chalkdust fan. Discovering Geometry was wonderful for him and we used the Geometer Sketchpad with it. The constructions on the computer were helpful because he was not good at drawing. There were very few if any proofs with Discovering Geometry. I had posted earlier about the Chalkdust instructions and I read that you should watch the dvd twice and "for Geometry work 15-20 problems per section but not necessarily every proof (proofs are not currently on standardized tests). Note certain problem areas within the Read Me First Letter that the student need not work--these are for AP type students."

On the Read Me First letter it says, "At the end of each section, problems under Integrated Review may be omitted. Problems under Problem Solving may be limited to about 5 to 6 problems. Problems under Explaining Concepts my be omitted."

 

Try watching the dvd twice like the instructions suggest. The second time through, pause the dvd and work the examples as he shows them. See if this makes a difference before you spend money on another program.

[Jann in TX]

My oldest dd skipped Geometry (insert long story about dd with learning differences).

 

My middle dd took Geometry last year in PS--I had to reteach every lesson at home....her text was pretty good--but it did not contain enough teaching/examples for independent use (or use with a dysfunctional teacher)

 

One of my students will be using an older (1992) Holt Geometry text. I've taught from this several times--basic text with proofs and lots of application--good examples and easy to schedule. Plus it is inexpensive and easy to find... It is written on a level that most students can understand--some texts are a bit too formal and that makes some students insecure.

 

I tutored from the text that Keystone uses (can't remember the publisher) last year--it was pretty good too.

 

I would not mind teaching out of Jacobs--I prefer texts that I can personalize--and Jacobs gives you lots of options as far as assignments go.

 

I also like Discovering Geometry (the idea behind it and my preview)--I REALLY like the Geometers Sketchpad (it is on my wish list). I have not used it so I'm not sure how it fits as far as content/rigour.

[Veronica in VA]

I actually liked geometry - hey, a math class I can write in! I loved proofs. My son used Chalkdust geometry, but I had a feeling that my dd would not do well with it. So I sold that and after looking at everything I could find, and asking lots of questions here, chose Math-U-See. I like it and I love the organized way it is set up - lessons, worksheets, etc. One struggle I had with Chalkdust was scheduling it, and MUS was much easier in that respect. It is not nearly as proof intensive as Chalkdust, but my daughter will be doing some logic puzzles alongside MUS and she is also doing the honor's workbook with MUS. My ds is more the engineering type, and I felt he needed a more rigorous geometry course.

 

Another option might be using something like Geometry success in 20 minutes a day along with your geometry text. The explanations are quite good in that.

 

Hope this helps some,

 

Veronica

[74Heaven]

So I sold that and after looking at everything I could find, and asking lots of questions here, chose Math-U-See. I like it and I love the organized way it is set up - lessons, worksheets, etc. One struggle I had with Chalkdust was scheduling it, and MUS was much easier in that respect. It is not nearly as proof intensive as Chalkdust, but my daughter will be doing some logic puzzles alongside MUS and she is also doing the honor's workbook with MUS. My ds is more the engineering type, and I felt he needed a more rigorous geometry course.

 

Another option might be using something like Geometry success in 20 minutes a day along with your geometry text. The explanations are quite good in that.

 

Hope this helps some,

 

Veronica

 

I tried MUS in about 7-8th grade and hated it! My dtr and I were confused for the first few weeks so we dropped it (and I consider myself "mathy" if you don't count Geometry). Does the Geometry package includes manipulatives? Is it different from most courses? It seems manipulatives might be handy - at least in the visualizing - but of course there aren't a lot of "standard" shapes that work in Geometry exercises.

 

One thing I am liking in Chalkdust is the Algebra review that is built in. My dtr will really benefit from that.

 

Does anyone have BJU feedback?

 

And can you tell me about Geometry Success in 20min a day???

 

Thanks again for all the feedback.

Lisaj

[Veronica in VA]

I tried MUS in about 7-8th grade and hated it! My dtr and I were confused for the first few weeks so we dropped it (and I consider myself "mathy" if you don't count Geometry). Does the Geometry package includes manipulatives? Is it different from most courses? It seems manipulatives might be handy - at least in the visualizing - but of course there aren't a lot of "standard" shapes that work in Geometry exercises.

 

One thing I am liking in Chalkdust is the Algebra review that is built in. My dtr will really benefit from that.

 

 

And can you tell me about Geometry Success in 20min a day???

 

Thanks again for all the feedback.

Lisaj

 

Manipulatives aren't used in MUS geometry. That would have driven my dd crazy, too. There is some review built into MUS, but I won't be using that since my dd already did Algebra II. Once a week, I plan to pull out the Life of Fred for Algebra II review. I don't think there is as much Algebra I review in MUS as in Chalkdust though. I have heard some people say it is not as rigorous as some other programs, but it is perfect for my dd, and I don't think it is easy or lacking something after reviewing it. There are a lot less proofs in it than Chalkdust, but that was ok with me. She is enjoying it, and learning, and that is the most important thing to me.

 

A friend of mine used Geometry success in 20 min a day, after it was recommended here. It helped her dd understand geometry better - she had gone through most of the Chalkdust program, but just wasn't getting it. It's not a complete program, just a supplement. This might be a good option for you if you don't want to have to buy another program.

 

I hope someone here can help you with BJU, I haven't tried that.

 

Hope that helps some,

 

Veronica

[Jan P.]

I'm hearing good things about the Math Without Borders geometry program. I recently bought the Algebra 1 CDs, and their great! Here is the link:

http://www.mathwithoutborders.com/Geometry/index.html .

 

And here is a review:

http://www.homeschoolmath.net/reviews/geometry_guided_inquiry.php

 

HTh,

[74Heaven]

Thank you all so much. I will look into the Geometry resources. I am pretty much set on switching out the Pre-Calc I got with my BJU DVD sets. And Geom. Success in 20min a day sounds promising. I also talked to a veteran homeschooling mom who confessed she hated Geometry as well but spent most of her dtr's sophomore year sitting side-by-side with her for Geometry every day. I guess if I must, I must :>().

 

Lisaj