Runningmom80 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 because I can't find one. :confused1: I feel like this gets talked about all the time here. I got my DS' WJ scores today, and they ar kind of pointing in this direction. (I think....more questions for the psych!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theYoungerMrsWarde Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I don't have one (that I know of) but this is my go-to blog post about VSL kids. http://dancing-with-dragons.blogspot.com/2012/07/teaching-visual-spatial-learner-when.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 I don't have one (that I know of) but this is my go-to blog post about VSL kids. http://dancing-with-dragons.blogspot.com/2012/07/teaching-visual-spatial-learner-when.html Oh my gosh, that's an amazing blog post. Thank you for posting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Totally stalking this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratia271 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 My husband is VSL and has helped me tremendously in understanding my VSL child. Specific things that worked here in the early years were Singapore math, lots of logic materials she could puzzle through (anything/everything I could locate), highly visual books on variety of topics (Sir Cumference, Mathterpieces, art books), hands-on science, nature, drawing, painting, etc... Hands-On-Equations is great for visualizing equations. AoPS might be a good fit as well. I avoided anything parts-to-whole (with all of my children really) unless absolutely necessary, and I have always taught my three children by beginning with the big picture because everyone in my household is fairly global and intuitive in learning orientation. Beginning with "parts" has always been a bust around here. I found the best way to try to plow through the minutiae with older kids was to find something they enjoy so much that they are motivated to ferret out the details. Strangely, that is Attic Greek. Whatever works... :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I'm not sure if the thread tags still work, but there were tags with VSL and such on a number of threads. I would focus on presenting context, or big picture, before the details. Often it's possible to tweak your presentation of something in this manner. AoPS is about as big-picture as it gets. You are already using BA, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Well, I just spent an hour reading about how "learning styles" are a myth. So now I'm thoroughly confused. Not convinced, but confused. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 On the myth, I've read that too, and all I can say is that to think everyone learns best through same methods is just plain silly - this isn't black and white, but a continuum. Some people have significant differences in their strengths and weaknesses. Other people are more even in their learning abilities across the board. I think it's more of an issue where a student's weaknesses are a mismatch for the teaching method, in contrast to a student who does not have weaknesses but simply has a preference. I would say that, in a classroom situation, a "good" teaching method ought to reach most students, even those who have different preferred modes of learning or weaknesses in auditory comprehension (eta, ideally, though what is ideal may be different from what ed schools may teach as "good"). My favorite reading on the subject would start with Silverman's Upside Down Brilliance. However, IMO it's not just a matter of learning but of "thinking style" (for lack of a better term); see, e.g., the Eide's The Dyslexic Advantage. Even though your child isn't dyslexic, the ways of thinking described in the book are very VSL, IMO (the book was recommended to me for my ds, who is not dyslexic but "processes" like one in terms of his strengths, and I believe those strengths are a large part of his intelligence, if that makes any sense). By the way, how would the WJ scores point toward VSL? I'm not aware that there are any test scores that do so. (Was that WJ achievement or cog?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 On the myth, I've read that too, and all I can say is that to think everyone learns best through same methods is just plain silly - this isn't black and white, but a continuum. Some people have significant differences in their strengths and weaknesses. Other people are more even in their learning abilities across the board. I think it's more of an issue where a student's weaknesses are a mismatch for the teaching method, in contrast to a student who does not have weaknesses but simply has a preference. I would say that, in a classroom situation, a "good" teaching method ought to reach most students, even those who have different preferred modes of learning or weaknesses in auditory comprehension. My favorite reading on the subject would start with Silverman's Upside Down Brilliance. However, IMO it's not just a matter of learning but of "thinking style" (for lack of a better term); see, e.g., the Eide's The Dyslexic Advantage. Even though your child isn't dyslexic, the ways of thinking described in the book are very VSL, IMO (the book was recommended to me for my ds, who is not dyslexic but "processes" like one in terms of his strengths, and I believe those strengths are a large part of his intelligence, if that makes any sense). By the way, how would the WJ scores point toward VSL? I'm not aware that there are any test scores that do so. (Was that WJ achievement or cog?) Well, I'm guessing based on the results of the achievement testing and some comments she made while briefly going over the scores. I went back and read the VSL signs and they sound exactly like my DS, aside from him being a good speller. He did much better on the tests where there were visual prompts, and the oral part in general was by far his lowest. All of his scores were scattered in the subjects themselves, and the timed writing pieces were the lowest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Well, I'm guessing based on the results of the achievement testing and some comments she made while briefly going over the scores. I went back and read the VSL signs and they sound exactly like my DS, aside from him being a good speller. He did much better on the tests where there were visual prompts, and the oral part in general was by far his lowest. All of his scores were scattered in the subjects themselves, and the timed writing pieces were the lowest. Ah, similar to my kids. Sounds like a potential processing speed relative weakness (the timed writing) along with some sort of relative auditory weakness (there are different types). It does seem that many such kids lean toward VSL and I often make that assumption, but when there's testing, sometimes it helps to be more specific. Since you didn't get the ability testing, if you ever do, you may want a WISC, which breaks apart processing speed and other things a little more clearly than, say, the WJ cog (though block design is still timed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratia271 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Well, I just spent an hour reading about how "learning styles" are a myth. So now I'm thoroughly confused. Not convinced, but confused. Lol When I started this journey eleven years ago, I read things like that (and many others) and initially felt so discouraged. After all these years with three kids and several nephews and nieces I work with, I am convinced there are different learning styles... along with many other discoveries that seem unrealistic to many "professionals" like the idea that all young children learn parts-to-whole and only older kids make connections based on "logic stage" adolescent age parameters. People are accustomed to auditory-sequential learners; many educators with whom I have interacted believe this is the learning style... kids who don't learn that way just don't exist. I have been told the same by some licensed educators about gifted kids. ????? My husband and I have had many laughs in retrospect about how we were told our kids couldn't possibly do x or y when we were living with these kids who were doing all of these things. It's just silly. The only people who have provided me with help are people on these boards, book authors, and a local clinical psychologist who works with children at a gifted school. Alas, you will sift through so much carp, but rest assured you are on the right track. Trust your instincts about your children. You know them the best and have the greatest interest in nurturing and developing their fine minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Ah, similar to my kids. Sounds like a potential processing speed relative weakness (the timed writing) along with some sort of relative auditory weakness (there are different types). It does seem that many such kids lean toward VSL and I often make that assumption, but when there's testing, sometimes it helps to be more specific. Since you didn't get the ability testing, if you ever do, you may want a WISC, which breaks apart processing speed and other things a little more clearly than, say, the WJ cog (though block design is still timed). Thank you! We are back and forth on whether or not to get the IQ portion, but have the choice between the WISC and the SB-V. We are just not sure what it would tell us at this point, since he took the WPPSI and SB-V at 4.5. ( 2 different schools, each wanted a different test.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratia271 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Ah, similar to my kids. Sounds like a potential processing speed relative weakness (the timed writing) along with some sort of relative auditory weakness (there are different types). It does seem that many such kids lean toward VSL and I often make that assumption, but when there's testing, sometimes it helps to be more specific. Since you didn't get the ability testing, if you ever do, you may want a WISC, which breaks apart processing speed and other things a little more clearly than, say, the WJ cog (though block design is still timed). I would also recommend WISC. That could be helpful. The timed aspect of the writing portion can be a stumbling block for some, but I have always taken the writing portions for youngers with a grain of salt anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 When I started this journey eleven years ago, I read things like that (and many others) and initially felt so discouraged. After all these years with three kids and several nephews and nieces I work with, I am convinced there are different learning styles... along with many other discoveries that seem unrealistic to many "professionals" like the idea that all young children learn parts-to-whole and only older kids make connections based on "logic stage" adolescent age parameters. People are accustomed to auditory-sequential learners; many educators with whom I have interacted believe this is the learning style... kids who don't learn that way just don't exist. I have been told the same by some licensed educators about gifted kids. ????? My husband and I have had many laughs in retrospect about how we were told our kids couldn't possibly do x or y when we were living with these kids who were doing all of these things. It's just silly. The only people who have provided me with help are people on these boards, book authors, and a local clinical psychologist who works with children at a gifted school. Alas, you will sift through so much carp, but rest assured you are on the right track. Trust your instincts about your children. You know them the best and have the greatest interest in nurturing and developing their fine minds. Thank you for this. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Thank you! We are back and forth on whether or not to get the IQ portion, but have the choice between the WISC and the SB-V. We are just not sure what it would tell us at this point, since he took the WPPSI and SB-V at 4.5. ( 2 different schools, each wanted a different test.) It's a tricky question. If you want further delineation of weaknesses, I think the WISC is your best bet. If you need a high score to get into a program or something, I wonder whether the SB-V might be better as I think it's untimed and I thought i read that it was better for VSLs - I have wondered about that for my ds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 I'm not sure if the thread tags still work, but there were tags with VSL and such on a number of threads. I would focus on presenting context, or big picture, before the details. Often it's possible to tweak your presentation of something in this manner. AoPS is about as big-picture as it gets. You are already using BA, right? He hated BA. He picked MM over BA. And he really hates MM. We are using SM now which is working great except it's expensive because we are going through the books quickly. I'm going to get some of those Challenge math books to try this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 He hated BA. He picked MM over BA. And he really hates MM. We are using SM now which is working great except it's expensive because we are going through the books quickly. I'm going to get some of those Challenge math books to try this summer. FWIW, I really dislike the BA guides from a visual standpoint - way too much color - which I think can be bad for some VSLs. (Any chance there's some sort of visual weakness that makes looking at the guides annoying? what did he hate about it?). I haven't used BA enough to say, but as for AoPS, the presentation of concepts - and I do not mean the discovery aspect, but how the presentation is ordered within the lesson itself and within a chapter - is what I think is big-picture and great for VSLs. Hating MM is easy for this kind of kid LOL, even though IMO conceptually it's very good. For my ds, I compacted a lot of MM lessons. I'd also do a lot on the white board rather than in the workbook, particularly for the lesson itself as opposed to exercises/practice. This can help for two reasons, only having to look at one thing at a time, and the handwriting aspect - less friction, more fun. (We also do aops lessons on the white board, together, socratically.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratia271 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 He hated BA. He picked MM over BA. And he really hates MM. We are using SM now which is working great except it's expensive because we are going through the books quickly. I'm going to get some of those Challenge math books to try this summer. Mine hated MM, too. I agree with you about the expense of SM. It was the only thing that really worked around here, but they do go through it quickly. The challenge books are great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 It's a tricky question. If you want further delineation of weaknesses, I think the WISC is your best bet. If you need a high score to get into a program or something, I wonder whether the SB-V might be better as I think it's untimed and I thought i read that it was better for VSLs - I have wondered about that for my ds. I think at this point that's all we would use it for. We also go back and forth on which test we would do. The tester said that kids "on the outer edge of gifted" will get a super high score on the WISC usually, but the SB-V will better piece apart the abilities. So if we want a high score, do the wisc, if we want info do the SB. Not sure if we want either? :lol: He got the same FSIQ on both at 4, (well within a point) but he tested SO differently on them as far as the subtests. He was also 4, so who knows if they even mean anything! The thing is, we could go back and do the IQ for free, so that in and of itself makes me want to do it. But, the psych said she felt it was unnecessary, that it wouldn't tell us anything we didn't already know. soooo... :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 FWIW, I really dislike the BA guides from a visual standpoint - way too much color - which I think can be bad for some VSLs. (Any chance there's some sort of visual weakness that makes looking at the guides annoying? what did he hate about it?). I haven't used BA enough to say, but as for AoPS, the presentation of concepts - and I do not mean the discovery aspect, but how the presentation is ordered within the lesson itself and within a chapter - is what I think is big-picture and great for VSLs. Hating MM is easy for this kind of kid LOL, even though IMO conceptually it's very good. For my ds, I compacted a lot of MM lessons. I'd also do a lot on the white board rather than in the workbook, particularly for the lesson itself as opposed to exercises/practice. This can help for two reasons, only having to look at one thing at a time, and the handwriting aspect - less friction, more fun. (We also do aops lessons on the white board, together, socratically.) I honestly could never figure out why he didn't like it. I wonder if I just gave it to him too early. I made the mistake of making him do a lot of the MM problems. Now we skip a lot in singapore and he doesn't complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dharmacat Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Check out: www.therightsideofnormal.com/resources Her book, The Right Side of Normal, is an excellent resource on what she terms "right-brained learners" (visual-spatial, creative, whole-to-part, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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