Neuro Psych Eval - Rey complex question

[kristen18]

I have been reading about the importance of evaluations on this forum, so I dug out my daughter's old neuro psych. We had this done when she was in school, we pulled her to homeschool about a year ago. The school did not provide her with any services, claiming that she fell into the "average" range in her school subjects. Can anyone tell me what these scores could indicate and if there is anything I can do to help my daughter?

 

Rey complex Figure Test and Recognition Trial

 

                                   T Score                        %ile

Copy Trial                        -                               <1

Time to Copy                   -                               >16

Immediate Recall            33                                4

Delayed Recall                25                                1

Recognition                     23                              <1

 

Please be brutally honest.  The Rey complex was the worst section. This was not addressed in detail in the summary or recommendations sections. In fact, the write up appears to have some cutting and pasting going on. In one section they used "his" instead of "hers."  They also suggested something to help with repetitive behaviors, when it was noted correctly in another section that she has no repetitive behaviors. So, if anyone could help salvage any useful information from the raw data, I would really appreciate it.

           

[geodob]

The Rey Test is a combined test of visual and spacial thinking. 

To copy a drawing, requires holding an image of the drawing in the mind, and tests visual thinking.

Then to actually draw it, uses spatial thinking, to control and direct the hand in drawing it.

 

So that the question is whether she had a difficulty with holding a visual image of it in her mind?

Or a difficulty with drawing it?

Or even a difficulty with both?

 

But the Recognition test doesn't involve drawing, and just tests Visual Memory.

So that her score on the Recognition test, indicates that she has a difficulty with retaining and recalling a visual image, from memory?

[OneStepAtATime]

Welcome! 

 

No specific response to the above.  geodob knows far more than I do about those test results.  

 

But I do have a few questions that might give some of us that peruse this board some ideas on how to help.

 

1. What have you been using to try and help her with her learning?  Curriculum?  Remediation techniques?  

 

2. And where is she struggling, specifically?  What are you observing?

 

3. Besides the neuropshych evaluation, has she had any other evals?  Like an eye exam through a Developmental Optometrist (NOT a normal eye doctor).

 

Have you read any books on struggling learners?

The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide

Homeschooling Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl (SIL sometimes posts on TWTM forums)

How to Homeschool Your Learning Abled Child by Sandra Cook (sometimes posts on this board)

 

There are many others but these come to mind off the top of my head.

 

As the parent of two kids with special learning issues (dyslexia, dysgraphia, possible dyscalculia, heterophoria, etc.) there were times when I, too, felt like I wasn't going to be able to help them.  But we found ways and they are both really turning things around.  Don't get too discouraged.  Keep searching.  Give the posters here more info and read up as much as you can.  I have found a lot of info in unusual locations (and through many wonderful people on this board).

 

Best wishes.

[kristen18]

The Rey Test is a combined test of visual and spacial thinking. 

To copy a drawing, requires holding an image of the drawing in the mind, and tests visual thinking.

Then to actually draw it, uses spatial thinking, to control and direct the hand in drawing it.

 

So that the question is whether she had a difficulty with holding a visual image of it in her mind?

Or a difficulty with drawing it?

Or even a difficulty with both?

 

But the Recognition test doesn't involve drawing, and just tests Visual Memory.

So that her score on the Recognition test, indicates that she has a difficulty with retaining and recalling a visual image, from memory?

 

Thanks for your reply. I went through the write-up looking for some answers, here are a couple of excerpts:

"Memory performance is variable, greater weakness on tasks requiring more organizational skills"

"More difficulty with visual memory tasks with a drawing component"

 

Some other things of note:

 

They showed me one of her drawings that had a 90 degree rotational error, it was kind of shocking.

With visual memory of scenes, she was in the 63rd percentile. This dropped to the 9th when it came to geometric figures.

Also, in a "speeded task of manual dexterity" she scored in the <1% with her dominant hand, and in the 32% with her left.

 

I don't know if this provides more clues or more questions, thanks again.

[kristen18]

Welcome! 

 

No specific response to the above.  geodob knows far more than I do about those test results.  

 

But I do have a few questions that might give some of us that peruse this board some ideas on how to help.

 

1. What have you been using to try and help her with her learning?  Curriculum?  Remediation techniques?  

 

2. And where is she struggling, specifically?  What are you observing?

 

3. Besides the neuropshych evaluation, has she had any other evals?  Like an eye exam through a Developmental Optometrist (NOT a normal eye doctor).

 

Have you read any books on struggling learners?

The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide

Homeschooling Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl (SIL sometimes posts on TWTM forums)

How to Homeschool Your Learning Abled Child by Sandra Cook (sometimes posts on this board)

 

There are many others but these come to mind off the top of my head.

 

As the parent of two kids with special learning issues (dyslexia, dysgraphia, possible dyscalculia, heterophoria, etc.) there were times when I, too, felt like I wasn't going to be able to help them.  But we found ways and they are both really turning things around.  Don't get too discouraged.  Keep searching.  Give the posters here more info and read up as much as you can.  I have found a lot of info in unusual locations (and through many wonderful people on this board).

 

Best wishes.

 

Thank you for your response. We did Writing 8's a couple of years ago, and that did help a bit. She is 12 now, and doing well in math. We are  using Teaching Textbooks 7. She does use the 1/2 inch graph paper to help her line things up and has occasional issues with word problems. She struggles with writing the most. Her writing is fairly neat, she just can't do a lot of it. She prefers to hunt and peck on the computer. I plan to have her learn keyboarding at some point. Her writing struggle is more to do with getting coherent thoughts on paper. She does OK reading, but is very slow, and hates to read aloud with a passion. She does better with larger print.

 

When we started homeschooling, we went through Phonics Pathways (to remediate the whole word guessing that was going on), WWE 1 & 2, and FLL 3. She did OK with WWE, not great. We are still progressing through the Spelling Workout series, and added in Wordly Wise for vocab. We are also currently working through the Killgallon Sentence Composing for Elementary School at a very slow pace. I need to break it into small chunks to not overwhelm her. I am leaning towards IEW for next near, but am very open to suggestions.

 

We did see a Developmental Optometrist in 2011. We bought the Chromagen lenses that seemed to help at the time. DD HATED wearing them and it became a problem. Her anxiety with them on at school interfered with her learning. Did I mention she was headstrong too? Ugh. I recently had her do some reading with and without them on, tracking her errors. I don't know if she knew how to play it - I didn't tell her up front what I was doing - but there seemed to be no difference with them on or off.  

 

I have not read any of those books, but I will certainly start. The problem I have is figuring out what to even call what she has. Her primary problem is epilepsy, so I don't know what is brain related or medication related. I don't know what is fixed and what is changeable. I need to narrow the scope and focus on her specific issues, but I don't even know what to call them to look for answers. The NP Evaluators did not help in that regard. Quite frankly, from what I've read on this forum, the moms have far more practical knowledge than the "professionals" that I dealt with. I know I can do more for her than the school was, but I keep having this sinking feeling that I might be missing something that could really help her. Thank you for your time and input, I appreciate it!  

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

[geodob]

You wrote: 'Also, in a "speeded task of manual dexterity" she scored in the <1% with her dominant hand, and in the 32% with her left.'

 

Which really raises a question about whether she may in fact be left handed?

Which really deserves further consideration?

[kristen18]

You wrote: 'Also, in a "speeded task of manual dexterity" she scored in the <1% with her dominant hand, and in the 32% with her left.'

 

Which really raises a question about whether she may in fact be left handed?

Which really deserves further consideration?

 

I had her write some words & draw some shapes with each hand today. Her right hand was significantly better, but I guess that would be expected since she has been using it all along. When she was writing with her right hand, she didn't anchor the paper with her left - this has been an ongoing battle. When she wrote with her left hand, she did anchor it with her right. I found that interesting.

 

[Tiramisu]

I had her write some words & draw some shapes with each hand today. Her right hand was significantly better, but I guess that would be expected since she has been using it all along. When she was writing with her right hand, she didn't anchor the paper with her left - this has been an ongoing battle. When she wrote with her left hand, she did anchor it with her right. I found that interesting.

 

 

I'm going to bring up neurodevelopmental therapy. It is controversial. I have not tried it myself. However, I have several friends who had tried it and are convinced it has helped their children. One thing many of them have done under the therapist's guidance is making the change from using the right to the left hand. I can think of three kids off the top of my head who did this very successfully, though of course there was an adjustment period. They were all over age ten I believe. One is now an art student. :)

 

Just something to think about in case you ever wanted to try it. 

 

ETA: I have one with very poor visual memory in some areas. I remember one are was less than the first percentile. She also did very well in school and was never considered in need of services. I wish I had done a np eval with her earlier. I would recommend taking the score and the report to another np who could go over the scores with you and give you some insight since the report sound like a dud. BTW, a specialist who looked at my dd's report started laughing due to the same "cut and paste" element that you described.

[kristen18]

I'm going to bring up neurodevelopmental therapy. It is controversial. I have not tried it myself. However, I have several friends who had tried it and are convinced it has helped their children. One thing many of them have done under the therapist's guidance is making the change from using the right to the left hand. I can think of three kids off the top of my head who did this very successfully, though of course there was an adjustment period. They were all over age ten I believe. One is now an art student. :)

 

Just something to think about in case you ever wanted to try it. 

 

ETA: I have one with very poor visual memory in some areas. I remember one are was less than the first percentile. She also did very well in school and was never considered in need of services. I wish I had done a np eval with her earlier. I would recommend taking the score and the report to another np who could go over the scores with you and give you some insight since the report sound like a dud. BTW, a specialist who looked at my dd's report started laughing due to the same "cut and paste" element that you described.

 

Is there a certain type of therapist, or just what would be considered an OT? Thanks for the info., it's very interesting.

 

ETA: I think I have my own reading problem - I read it first as neurodevelopmental theory - now I see it says neurodevelopmental therapist - answers my question!

[Tiramisu]

Is there a certain type of therapist, or just what would be considered an OT? Thanks for the info., it's very interesting.

 

 

I think they are called neurodevelopmentalists, but I'm not sure.

 

This is the organization that my friend's have used. One family I know used them many years ago. Other families saw the change and tried it themselves. They have nothing but good things to say. 

 

http://www.hope-future.org/