Barton Level 1 snags with dd10

[Jyniffrec]

I have been going through Barton Level 1 with my dd10, who has been diagnosed with dyslexia and a processing speed disorder. We have gone through ElizabethB's phonics pages with some success. She also met with a friend who is a reading specialist for several months and went through a phonics program. These all strengthened her phonics skills but she still wasn't reading fluently.

 

So we started Barton Level 1 a few weeks ago. She flew through chapter 3, but then in chapter 4 we hit a snag. She has problems hearing 'r' in the middle of a three letter nonsense word. It is even worse with 'tr'. She also seems to have memory problems with the nonsense words if there is any interruption at all, it could even be something as small as a sneeze. We are able to get through these successfully, sometimes after several tries, but I am concerned about moving on. I go back through and point in the air at each sound just to make sure she hears each one, especially if it is likely to be a problem sound. I just ordered level 2 this morning but I am not sure about when to begin. How fluent does she need to be before moving on? Are there any more ideas about how to help her hear the sounds? Does this need to be easy for her before we move on? How do you get her to hear a sound she doesn't seem to be able to distinguish? I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

[OneStepAtATime]

I have a couple of thoughts and a few questions...

 

1. Did she pass the student screening for starting Barton?  If not, she may need remediation or assistance of another kind before she can successfully use this program while being tutored by a parent.

2. Has she ever had an evaluation through an audiologist for hearing issues that would not show up in a normal hearing screening?

3. Are you following all the hand gestures and other instructions in the book for moving through the lesson with minimal talking from the parent? (I ask because II wasn't as diligent about this at first because my DD was resistant, but once I started insisting, it really did help us get over a couple of humps).

4.  Have you read the recommendations for when students hit snags and implemented any recommendations (usually at the back of the book)? Those, although sometimes seeming a bit silly or tedious, when implemented actually helped us.

5.  Have you checked the website for tutor support pages and information? You need to get a tutor code from Susan Barton to access the Tutor support section of the site, but it was really easy to do and there is useful info there.

6.  Sometimes, with DD with Level 1 especially, I had to repeat a lesson, and sometimes I just had to go through a lesson really slowly, taking a couple of weeks or more at times.  I try to keep lessons short so the kids don't burn out (or me, either).

 

If none of the suggestions above seem helpful to you, I would also suggest that you e-mail Susan Barton  and ask for assistance with this.  She is usually very gracious about responding.

 

 

FWIW, my DD started the program when she was 12 and was pretty resistant at that point, since we had tried several tutors and she had been in a brick and mortar through 5th grade.  She had never been able to spell well AT ALL and her reading level with any fluency was closer to that of beginning 2nd grade, but reading was still a struggle even at that level.  Between unlearning all the bad habits she had already acquired, and her resistance to the program in general, it took quite a while with Level 1, and quite a while with Level 2 compared to what I thought it should take, but DD did not have that much trouble hearing the different sounds.  Even though Level 3 was much more challenging, by then she was used to the system and so was I and the lessons were smoother most of the time.  By mid-Level 3 there was a significant jump in reading and spelling ability.  We hit a snag at the beginning of Level 4, then just this week it all smoothed out again, after I repeated the first two lessons of this level.  DD took a spelling test yesterday (no looking at the words ahead of time; she took it cold) and half-way through the test she looked at me, grinned and said "Mom, I'm not making any effort to spell these words.  I just kind of know."  It really has worked beautifully for DD with reading and spelling, even with some bumps and going really pretty slowly compared to some.

 

DS, on the other hand, did not pass the student screening for certain blended sounds so we remmediated with LiPS, which helped a lot, but he still sometimes snags on the blends or switching from a hard to a soft c and back again in a list of words.  We made it through Level 3, but I have stopped and am going back to review certain blends again, along with reviewing certain lessons in Level 2 for fluency drills.  While we had planned to redo LiPS as well, that option is currently off the table.  Reviewing previous Levels does seem to be helping, but not hearing sounds correctly, or not being able to reproduce sounds correctly can be very frustrating for both parent and child, especially if the child is articulate and just expects things to come out right.  Still navigating this ourselves.  DS HAS improved in his reading and spelling, though.  Just not as significant a jump in output as DD.

 

One thing I would suggest with higher levels is looking at the card games from Spelling Success.  We use those a lot and the kids enjoy playing them as a respite from a lesson, in addition to a lesson, or a quick review when we don't have time for a lesson.  I also used the card games when I was waiting until after Christmas to start Level 4 so they wouldn't forget everything in prior levels. 

 

Not sure I have helped much but hopefully someone else will chime in....Best wishes.

 

[OneStepAtATime]

One more thing, for building fluency, there are fluency drills for Level 2 and beyond that can be incorporated off of the Barton tutor site.  I realize that you aren't there yet, but if you decide to push forward, you might consider starting these with Lesson 1 of Level 2 and just make it part of your routine as you progress through the lessons, unless it appears they aren't needed any more.  I have started using these with DS and wish I had begun using them in Level 2.   DD didn't need them and Barton does not recommend using them unless there are consistent fluency issues so I hadn't even really checked out the tutor support sight that closely until we were already well into Level 3.

[imagine.more]

We're currently doing level one of Barton with my 12 year old DD. She is hearing impaired but thankfully passed the Barton screening (not by much margin but she did pass). Anyway, she gets stuck on certain sounds in blends as well. /R/ is not a problem for her generally but /L/ definitely was. After trying a few different words with /L/ in them for practice I realized she was truly struggling. So we stopped and I instructed her in how to feel and see the /L/ sound. I had her take note of how when she said a word with /L/ in the middle her tongue would go up to the roof of her mouth. So when she feels her tongue go up that means there's an /L/ sound in there. I also showed her on me as much as possible so she could see it visually when she's lipreading (I know she lipreads as she listens a lot). That helped tremendously and the next day we went back to review that same lesson just to be sure and 2 days later we reviewed a bit more again and she did fine. Yesterday she hit a similar snag with confusing /K/ and /T/ sounds in the middle of words. So I walked her through feeling the hard /K/ in her throat vs the /T/ which doesn't cause vibration. 

 

Anyway, so for the /R/ sound I would show her exactly what happens to your mouth and hers when the /R/ sound is in a word. It kind of blends well into other consonants so I can see how it would be a sticking point for a lot of kids. I know my daughter sometimes tries to tack it onto the first consonant but then self-corrects. Say a word very slowly with the /R/ sound and without an /R/ sound. Circle your lips with your finger to show her how your lips come out like a fish when you add in an /R/ sound. A good example would be PRO vs PLO vs PO. If she watches you do it and listens carefully she should see and hear the difference in how your mouth moves with each one. 

 

Once you explain the concept be sure to practice and then review it several times over the next week or two or longer if necessary. 

[ElizabethB]

R and L are linguistically complex. They change the sound of vowels, they sound different in isolation than when blended with another consonant, they sound different at the beginning, middle, or end of a word.

 

Sometimes I wonder if some of my remedial students actually hear too well instead of not well enough and are hearing these differences.

 

For example, my student with apraxia could sound out t and s in isolation and could blend other letters, but had trouble blending ts. When I researched that sound combination more, I found that they are actually co articulated. I should have realized that from my Russian, but I didn't. I got out my Russian textbook and showed him the single letter in Russian for the sound ts, he thought that was cool. He no longer had problems with ts once he understood.

[ElizabethB]

http://www.uiowa.edu/~acadtech/phonetics/#

[Jyniffrec]

Thanks for all the replies! We just got back into town and this is the first chance I have had to look at them. I will be responding shortly.

[Jyniffrec]

I have a couple of thoughts and a few questions...

 

1. Did she pass the student screening for starting Barton? If not, she may need remediation or assistance of another kind before she can successfully use this program while being tutored by a parent.

2. Has she ever had an evaluation through an audiologist for hearing issues that would not show up in a normal hearing screening?

3. Are you following all the hand gestures and other instructions in the book for moving through the lesson with minimal talking from the parent? (I ask because II wasn't as diligent about this at first because my DD was resistant, but once I started insisting, it really did help us get over a couple of humps).

4. Have you read the recommendations for when students hit snags and implemented any recommendations (usually at the back of the book)? Those, although sometimes seeming a bit silly or tedious, when implemented actually helped us.

5. Have you checked the website for tutor support pages and information? You need to get a tutor code from Susan Barton to access the Tutor support section of the site, but it was really easy to do and there is useful info there.

6. Sometimes, with DD with Level 1 especially, I had to repeat a lesson, and sometimes I just had to go through a lesson really slowly, taking a couple of weeks or more at times. I try to keep lessons short so the kids don't burn out (or me, either).

 

If none of the suggestions above seem helpful to you, I would also suggest that you e-mail Susan Barton and ask for assistance with this. She is usually very gracious about responding.

 

 

FWIW, my DD started the program when she was 12 and was pretty resistant at that point, since we had tried several tutors and she had been in a brick and mortar through 5th grade. She had never been able to spell well AT ALL and her reading level with any fluency was closer to that of beginning 2nd grade, but reading was still a struggle even at that level. Between unlearning all the bad habits she had already acquired, and her resistance to the program in general, it took quite a while with Level 1, and quite a while with Level 2 compared to what I thought it should take, but DD did not have that much trouble hearing the different sounds. Even though Level 3 was much more challenging, by then she was used to the system and so was I and the lessons were smoother most of the time. By mid-Level 3 there was a significant jump in reading and spelling ability. We hit a snag at the beginning of Level 4, then just this week it all smoothed out again, after I repeated the first two lessons of this level. DD took a spelling test yesterday (no looking at the words ahead of time; she took it cold) and half-way through the test she looked at me, grinned and said "Mom, I'm not making any effort to spell these words. I just kind of know." It really has worked beautifully for DD with reading and spelling, even with some bumps and going really pretty slowly compared to some.

 

DS, on the other hand, did not pass the student screening for certain blended sounds so we remmediated with LiPS, which helped a lot, but he still sometimes snags on the blends or switching from a hard to a soft c and back again in a list of words. We made it through Level 3, but I have stopped and am going back to review certain blends again, along with reviewing certain lessons in Level 2 for fluency drills. While we had planned to redo LiPS as well, that option is currently off the table. Reviewing previous Levels does seem to be helping, but not hearing sounds correctly, or not being able to reproduce sounds correctly can be very frustrating for both parent and child, especially if the child is articulate and just expects things to come out right. Still navigating this ourselves. DS HAS improved in his reading and spelling, though. Just not as significant a jump in output as DD.

 

One thing I would suggest with higher levels is looking at the card games from Spelling Success. We use those a lot and the kids enjoy playing them as a respite from a lesson, in addition to a lesson, or a quick review when we don't have time for a lesson. I also used the card games when I was waiting until after Christmas to start Level 4 so they wouldn't forget everything in prior levels.

 

Not sure I have helped much but hopefully someone else will chime in....Best wishes.

Thanks for taking the time for such a detailed reply. In reply to your numbered points:

 

1. She did pass the Barton screening. She had a couple of hiccups, but nothing that kept her from passing. I think they had more to do with me not being used to administering the test.

2. No, no audiologist screenings. This is a good point.

3. When I don't do the hand gestures it affects her. I consider this an interruption that causes problems. I try to keep talking at a minimum as well. Even without these she can't hear the sounds I mentioned above.

4. I watched the recommendations on the videos but I have not read them. I will look at the written ones. Maybe I missed something. I believe I

5. One of the reasons I asked here was because there wasn't a lot of support that I could find for level 1 on the tutor support page. I also can't join the Google group because apparently Google groups doesn't like my Ipad.

6. This is really good to know. I thought that given the lack of information on level 1 problems that we were dealing with something much more serious than I understood. I can see now from your response that my instincts were probably right to just continue on the same lesson until I am comfortable that she can do it well. This understanding with your other ideas helps give me a new starting point.

 

I suspect that I am dealing with my own problems that it make more difficult for me to tutor so sometimes I just need to hash out things that may seem obvious to other people. :)

 

Thank you for sharing your children's stories as well, especially your son's. I have read about LiPs here a lot but was never clued into what it was (I am slow to pick up on things at times). And I am going to look up Spelling Success.

 

Thank you for helping me to think this through!

 

So I got all that typed out with a cat who wanted to play and walked all over my keyboard and a six year old watching a movie on my back. :)

[Jyniffrec]

One more thing, for building fluency, there are fluency drills for Level 2 and beyond that can be incorporated off of the Barton tutor site. I realize that you aren't there yet, but if you decide to push forward, you might consider starting these with Lesson 1 of Level 2 and just make it part of your routine as you progress through the lessons, unless it appears they aren't needed any more. I have started using these with DS and wish I had begun using them in Level 2. DD didn't need them and Barton does not recommend using them unless there are consistent fluency issues so I hadn't even really checked out the tutor support sight that closely until we were already well into Level 3.

Good idea. I am making note of this, although I may just sit on level 1 for awhile (even though I just dropped the money for level 2).

[Jyniffrec]

We're currently doing level one of Barton with my 12 year old DD. She is hearing impaired but thankfully passed the Barton screening (not by much margin but she did pass). Anyway, she gets stuck on certain sounds in blends as well. /R/ is not a problem for her generally but /L/ definitely was. After trying a few different words with /L/ in them for practice I realized she was truly struggling. So we stopped and I instructed her in how to feel and see the /L/ sound. I had her take note of how when she said a word with /L/ in the middle her tongue would go up to the roof of her mouth. So when she feels her tongue go up that means there's an /L/ sound in there. I also showed her on me as much as possible so she could see it visually when she's lipreading (I know she lipreads as she listens a lot). That helped tremendously and the next day we went back to review that same lesson just to be sure and 2 days later we reviewed a bit more again and she did fine. Yesterday she hit a similar snag with confusing /K/ and /T/ sounds in the middle of words. So I walked her through feeling the hard /K/ in her throat vs the /T/ which doesn't cause vibration.

 

Anyway, so for the /R/ sound I would show her exactly what happens to your mouth and hers when the /R/ sound is in a word. It kind of blends well into other consonants so I can see how it would be a sticking point for a lot of kids. I know my daughter sometimes tries to tack it onto the first consonant but then self-corrects. Say a word very slowly with the /R/ sound and without an /R/ sound. Circle your lips with your finger to show her how your lips come out like a fish when you add in an /R/ sound. A good example would be PRO vs PLO vs PO. If she watches you do it and listens carefully she should see and hear the difference in how your mouth moves with each one.

 

Once you explain the concept be sure to practice and then review it several times over the next week or two or longer if necessary.

I was using my vague memories of linguistics class in college (loved that class!) to guide me. I have been showing her where sounds sit in the mouth and have her watch me when I say the difficult sounds (for her). Your ideas are good ones and add a lot to what I was doing. And the fact that your dd is hearing impaired makes me suspect that OneStepAtATime may be right about dd needing to see an audiologist. Thank you for this!

[Jyniffrec]

R and L are linguistically complex. They change the sound of vowels, they sound different in isolation than when blended with another consonant, they sound different at the beginning, middle, or end of a word.

 

Sometimes I wonder if some of my remedial students actually hear too well instead of not well enough and are hearing these differences.

 

For example, my student with apraxia could sound out t and s in isolation and could blend other letters, but had trouble blending ts. When I researched that sound combination more, I found that they are actually co articulated. I should have realized that from my Russian, but I didn't. I got out my Russian textbook and showed him the single letter in Russian for the sound ts, he thought that was cool. He no longer had problems with ts once he understood.

This is *very* interesting. I am going to watch out for opportunities to point examples like this out to her. She is very sharp and likes to hear logical explanations for things. Thanks Elizabeth!

[OneStepAtATime]

Good luck and best wishes!  So glad some things people have posted may help you a bit.  :)

[ElizabethB]

This website is good for visually seeing inside the mouth for sounds:

 

http://www.uiowa.edu/~acadtech/phonetics/#