Science the WTM way

[pooh bear]

I'm starting to think about and plan my ds 9th grade science. He is not a science lover at all, never has had an interest in experiments or building things (always hated Legos when he was younger).

 

Has anyone done science as it is laid out in TWTM? Would you say that it is good way to go for science for a non-science child? Would adding virtual labs be OK, or should I look into adding hands-on labs?

 

My ds loves to read and likes to work independently when ever possible. He's currently working on Algebra I with Saxon, and will be in Algebra II when he starts high school.

 

And another question which may seem a little odd. My son is blind in one eye. Would he have problems using a microscope? I don't know anyone close by who has one that we could try out. A new microscope will be a big part of our budget and I don't want to buy it and find that he can't use it. 

 

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

DD is in 7th, so I can't answer the science part yet, but I'm 20/300 in one eye and I have no trouble with our microscope (a used college model). I would not think it will be an issue for your DS.

[regentrude]

I do not find the science recommendations in TWTM suitable for teaching high school science.

Reading original literature is not an effective way of gaining conceptual understanding of the basics that are necessary for college preparatory science instruction (reading Einstein certainly looks fancy on the course description, but a student will not adequately understand, and appreciate the ramifications of, relativity if he does not have a thorough grounding in Newtonian mechanics.)

Some of the recommended materials (the self study guides) are more suited for a test prep review than for developing an in depth conceptual understanding of new material; there is a severe lack of problem solving instruction and practice.

 

I also do not consider virtual "labs" an adequate substitute for real labs.

You can not learn to handle lab equipment and prepare specimens if all you do is push a button on your computer. You also miss out on the entire aspect of designing your experiment, since a virtual lab is pre-programmed and already set up for you.

 

[pooh bear]

I do not find the science recommendations in TWTM suitable for teaching high school science.

Reading original literature is not an effective way of gaining conceptual understanding of the basics that are necessary for college preparatory science instruction (reading Einstein certainly looks fancy on the course description, but a student will not adequately understand, and appreciate the ramifications of, relativity if he does not have a thorough grounding in Newtonian mechanics.)

Some of the recommended materials (the self study guides) are more suited for a test prep review than for developing an in depth conceptual understanding of new material; there is a severe lack of problem solving instruction and practice.

 

I also do not consider virtual "labs" an adequate substitute for real labs.

You can not learn to handle lab equipment and prepare specimens if all you do is push a button on your computer. You also miss out on the entire aspect of designing your experiment, since a virtual lab is pre-programmed and already set up for you.

 

Thank you for the frank opinion.

 

Do you have any recommendations what I should look into for a non-science kid? He's in Algebra I now and will be in Algebra II when he starts high school. He enjoys math. Oh, and secular would be better. And I'm not worried about doing science in the traditional order. I'm originally from the UK, so I'm more used to have all the sciences taught in the same year.

 

[regentrude]

What do you mean by "non-science" kid?

 

I prefer to use introductory college texts for non-majors for my highschoolers. I find them of much better quality than the typical high school texts.

We do physics first, then chemistry.

[pooh bear]

He hates science. He does not like experiments or building things. He has a basic science knowledge, but it just does not hold his interest.

 

Math, reading and languages are more his thing.

[regentrude]

He hates science. He does not like experiments or building things. He has a basic science knowledge, but it just does not hold his interest.

 

Math, reading and languages are more his thing.

 

I am a scientist.

I hate experiments, and I despise building things, and always have, since childhood.

I love math, reading and literature.

I became a theoretical physicist :-) Lots and lots of wonderful math!

[pooh bear]

I am a scientist.

I hate experiments, and I despise building things, and always have, since childhood.

I love math, reading and literature.

I became a theoretical physicist :-) Lots and lots of wonderful math!

 

Now that I think about it, he has gotten books about String Theory from the library quite a few times and enjoyed them.

 

He's using Saxon math and really likes the way it works.

 

I'll have a look at the Knights Physics I've seen talked about here.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I'm blind in one eye too, and I can use a standard microscope just fine.  He'll be okay!

[Colleen in NS]

I'm starting to think about and plan my ds 9th grade science. He is not a science lover at all, never has had an interest in experiments or building things (always hated Legos when he was younger).

 

Has anyone done science as it is laid out in TWTM? Would you say that it is good way to go for science for a non-science child? Would adding virtual labs be OK, or should I look into adding hands-on labs?

 

My ds loves to read and likes to work independently when ever possible. He's currently working on Algebra I with Saxon, and will be in Algebra II when he starts high school.

 

And another question which may seem a little odd. My son is blind in one eye. Would he have problems using a microscope? I don't know anyone close by who has one that we could try out. A new microscope will be a big part of our budget and I don't want to buy it and find that he can't use it. 

 

Here is a thread that really helped me specifically with whether or not to use the Self-Teaching Guides (we are using them - Astronomy last year, Physics this year):

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/283802-science-self-teaching-guides-recommended-in-wtm/?hl=%2Bstg&do=findComment&comment=2844133

 

My son is a math-lover and a reader, and has read a book or three on string theory, too. :D

 

We have not delved deeply into doing experiments yet, as we have been putting more focus on developing his writing/reading/research skills (with WWS).

 

We haven't delved deeply into the "history of science" books, but I do check them out of the library periodically and hand them to him to look over.  I give him leeway with these - he can read them if he wants, but he doesn't have to do so.  At least he understands that he can read those in order to gain a better context for the development of science ideas.

 

What we have done (so far - I hope to develop this more in the next semester) is focus on reading and extracting (via some of the reading and writing skills he has learned) concepts from the STGs, and then doing deeper research (we have great libraries around here - several university ones, too, that we use now) on topics he wants to understand better or learn more about.  I am happy with what has happened so far.  He will come out from a reading/notetaking session and tell me he understood this and that, but didn't quite understand something else, but then he will mutter that he will just go back and reread it and do some research about it.  My next plan of action is to get him researching and writing about science topics from is current science readings regularly throughout the next semester.  Time will tell if I am being naive about high school science study, but to me, this is what I have wanted after all these years of sweating through teaching him (and me learning!) the academic skills that enable him to get to this point - for him to know how to further educate himself and learn from others, whether it's authors or real-life acquaintances.

 

I fretted for years about using these books and these methods.  But after showing my son some thick science textbooks, he got overwhelmed with the prospect of having to read all that, digest it, and answer questions about it.  (As did I)  And I talked with a friend of mine who is a MD and who knows what the universities around here are like. She kept telling me that if he knows how to read critically, how to write about what he reads, and has some basic conceptual knowledge in the major areas of science, and has a solid grounding in math (he is getting that - thank you Jane in NC and Kathy in Richmond for talking about Dolciani over the years), he will do very well in uni science courses.  And her biologist/MD friend backed her up on that during one conversation. And she has observed ds in action, and thinks he will be fine. I also had that nagging little voice in my head telling me that he needed to learn how to handle the thick texts now so that he could do that in uni. But, I now know that because he is learning to handle text in smaller chunks, he will eventually be able to handle it in bigger chunks.

 

Oh, and the Teaching Company science courses are wonderful supplementsl!!!!  And this is the time of year when they go on sale for their lowest prices of the year (why haven't I see threads about that yet - where are those coupon codes, people?!  :D  ).

 

p.s.  Also, I think that what constitutes a "good way to go" for high school science is a bit subjective - depends on so many factors.

 

[pooh bear]

Here is a thread that really helped me specifically with whether or not to use the Self-Teaching Guides (we are using them - Astronomy last year, Physics this year):

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/283802-science-self-teaching-guides-recommended-in-wtm/?hl=%2Bstg&do=findComment&comment=2844133

 

My son is a math-lover and a reader, and has read a book or three on string theory, too. :D

 

We have not delved deeply into doing experiments yet, as we have been putting more focus on developing his writing/reading/research skills (with WWS).

 

We haven't delved deeply into the "history of science" books, but I do check them out of the library periodically and hand them to him to look over.  I give him leeway with these - he can read them if he wants, but he doesn't have to do so.  At least he understands that he can read those in order to gain a better context for the development of science ideas.

 

What we have done (so far - I hope to develop this more in the next semester) is focus on reading and extracting (via some of the reading and writing skills he has learned) concepts from the STGs, and then doing deeper research (we have great libraries around here - several university ones, too, that we use now) on topics he wants to understand better or learn more about.  I am happy with what has happened so far.  He will come out from a reading/notetaking session and tell me he understood this and that, but didn't quite understand something else, but then he will mutter that he will just go back and reread it and do some research about it.  My next plan of action is to get him researching and writing about science topics from is current science readings regularly throughout the next semester.  Time will tell if I am being naive about high school science study, but to me, this is what I have wanted after all these years of sweating through teaching him (and me learning!) the academic skills that enable him to get to this point - for him to know how to further educate himself and learn from others, whether it's authors or real-life acquaintances.

 

I fretted for years about using these books and these methods.  But after showing my son some thick science textbooks, he got overwhelmed with the prospect of having to read all that, digest it, and answer questions about it.  (As did I)  And I talked with a friend of mine who is a MD and who knows what the universities around here are like. She kept telling me that if he knows how to read critically, how to write about what he reads, and has some basic conceptual knowledge in the major areas of science, and has a solid grounding in math (he is getting that - thank you Jane in NC and Kathy in Richmond for talking about Dolciani over the years), he will do very well in uni science courses.  And her biologist/MD friend backed her up on that during one conversation. And she has observed ds in action, and thinks he will be fine. I also had that nagging little voice in my head telling me that he needed to learn how to handle the thick texts now so that he could do that in uni. But, I now know that because he is learning to handle text in smaller chunks, he will eventually be able to handle it in bigger chunks.

 

Oh, and the Teaching Company science courses are wonderful supplementsl!!!!  And this is the time of year when they go on sale for their lowest prices of the year (why haven't I see threads about that yet - where are those coupon codes, people?!  :D  ).

 

p.s.  Also, I think that what constitutes a "good way to go" for high school science is a bit subjective - depends on so many factors.

 

 

Thank you Colleen. Your son sounds like mine. The thought of textbooks, of any kind, make him panic. And we also have been working on reading/writing/research/study skills. He's not very organized when it comes to that stuff. We can talk all day, in depth, about what he has read, but putting it onto paper is difficult for him.

 

I know that if he goes to college that he will have to use textbooks, but college is only a thought at the moment, not a certain.

 

Lots to ponder over the next few months.

[Colleen in NS]

Just want to add one more quick thought.  We do have one of the thick physics textbooks on our bookshelf.  Ds looks through it periodically to read further about something.  It is interestingly written and it explains things well.  But I felt that the STG was better for us to use as a spine/overview, *because* it was thinner.  We just find it easier to have something that is an overview, and then find other ways to dive into the specifics.  Hope that makes sense.  I just don't want anyone to think I'm against textbooks - I am not.  :D

[swimmermom3]

Please don't undersell your "non-science" student (same for non-math, non-literature, etc.). If a student is a "non" student, that is all the more reason to look for engaging, well-written, academically appropriate materials. Now that I am older and wiser :tongue_smilie: , I can look back at the experience of both of my older non-science-type students in chemistry and say that they definitely would have been better served if I had supplemented their public school chemistry texts with one of the two introductory college chemistry texts that my youngest son now uses. Many of the high school texts my older kids used gave only a brief explanation of a concept and then several examples for problems in both math and science. Often, my older son referred to the texts on our shelves as opposed to his school text, because he needed a deeper explanation. The high school texts are sound-bites meant to get a student through a proficiency-based test. They don't necessarily foster a love for or understanding of a discipline.

 

There are some very good texts out there and I tell my son that the goal is not to read the text in one sitting. Usually we are only covering a section or two at most per day and a handful of problems. I supplement with a lot of different materials to up the engagement factor. That's not too hard with a discipline like chemistry because it is chock full of crazy scientists with basements full of urine and rather frightening personal habits.

 

Pooh Bear - kids change so much during the high school years. I guess I am encouraging you to make sure your son is scientifically literate even if it's not his favorite subject. My undergraduate work was in journalism; my graduate work was in business. No one could have seen that transition coming, least of all my parents.  The young man that lives next us whose mother once pronounced he was not college material, is in his first year of college studying civil engineering. He is on full scholarship even though at the age of 12 he once abandoned his boots which were stuck in the pond and proceeded to walk up a hill full of brambles and across his mother's light-colored carpet in his muddy stocking feet. :D  One of the most gifted middle school math teachers I know flunked out of his high school math classes. College was a different story.

 

 

[rebbyribs]

And another question which may seem a little odd. My son is blind in one eye. Would he have problems using a microscope? I don't know anyone close by who has one that we could try out. A new microscope will be a big part of our budget and I don't want to buy it and find that he can't use it. 

 

Many people close their second eye while looking through a microscope.  He shouldn't have any problems.

[pooh bear]

Swimmer Mom - Thank you. I've been been mulling over what you wrote and it really does make sense. Why should I opt for an easy version of science just because it's not his favorite subject?

 

I've been reading through some of the science threads on the board and I think I know which direction to head in (famous last words). I'll start a new thread on that though.