MFW users, please help

[Mom2TheTeam]

Preparing is an overview of world history from creation until modern times. There is ancients in it but CTC is the guide that covers ancients. Preparing and CTC both use Bible reading for history as well as other history books. I also wanted to say it is perfectly fine to just use one HOD guide. What I meant was you can't really judge HOD as a whole by one guide(especially doing like 3 weeks of it or something). That would be like reading one random book out of a series. I'm not sure if that makes sense but it does in my head. ;)

 

Thank you for clarifying, since I was wrong. :blush:  Ignore me, Amy!  :lol:

[Amy M]

I'm not sure what exactly you should do for your situation, but I'll just share my experience. I had to decide on which curriculum to use for the next 4 years, without being able to see them in person outside of the website samples and reading reviews on the internet. It was really hard to choose between so many great programs. I have been to HOD's site so often that I have a good sense of each program and the books in it, but I chose not to use it because I wanted to combine more of my kids together. That was an over-arching principle for me. Because that was such an important factor to me, my top three choices were between Biblioplan, TOG, and MFW. I wrote this blog post to explain how I came to my decision: Why I Chose My Father's World (over Biblioplan or Tapestry of Grace) The article will explain in detail what was important to me and how I felt MFW met that.

 

I chose MFW for ADV and the 5-year cycle, and we will begin ADV next February. Since buying most of the items, we went back to the States (missionaries in Africa), and I read through the manuals for ADV, ECC, CTG, and RTR. Not kidding! I read through them before going to sleep at night, lol! I was impressed with them, again impressed with MFW's display at my state homeschooling convention, and happy I chose them. At least for now. :) In my situation, I will have to stick with them and just tweak if I don't like something.

 

Sometimes I would like more LA instruction included in the manual, but usually I'm really glad that they're not. I lean more classical than CM for LA.

 

I did do just the 3 Rs for K (ABeka), and while that's fine for K, I wanted to start some of the cycles for 1st. We are using SOTW 1 and 106 Days of Creation Science for 1st, just until we get into the MFW cycles. However, I wish that I had done FIAR for 1st at least and maybe K too. I now have volumes 1-2 and enough of the FIAR books to do one year's worth, so when my younger two children are in 1st and K, I think I might do FIAR with them while the olders are in CTG and RTR; or maybe I'll do like Donna said and row a book when it's recommended in ADV book basket (if I have the book) and use that for the science and art for the week instead of ADV.

 

I also lean towards that for you--ADV this coming year, or FIAR. Or just interest-led like you said, but for me I'd probably just get er done and never get around to what their "interests" were without some more structure. Hope that helps a little!

 

Really, you can't go wrong with so many good choices. :)

 

What I know I want (next year and long term)....

LOTS of great living books, all related to what we're studying Also attractive to me--I like that MFW includes recommendations for science, Bible, art, and music as well as history! The flexibility of the book basket was also a factor to me in choosing MFW vs TOG--it freed up more money to choose more books.
Fun projects that are not too complicated for me to plan, but enhance the learning and keep it fun I am not creative and don't like complicated, so I'm hoping MFW will help here.
Lessons that are clearly laid out for me Yes, me too. I like scripted. :) At least at this point. MFW is not scripted, but very helpful.
Ability to teach the 3r's at my kids levels with whatever programs I choose (to give you an idea, we're loving AAR!) I like that with MFW it doesn't matter what you choose for LA or math. With HOD, it seems to be more tied in, and does matter. I think I would do too much, not able to abandon HOD's LA, but still wanting to do my own not-so-CMish LA.
history that progresses in some logical progression so that I don't miss anything I like MFW's progression better, as it follows the WTM recs earlier than HOD.
Science that is hands on and sparks an interest, good books again, logical progression would be good As far as logical progression, one thing I've noted about MFW is that their science follows the WTM recommendations better than most curricula I've noted that include science (for RTR, EX, and Modern). For the 4-year cycle, they try to tie it in to history. Rather than covering a topic for a year like WTM though, they cover it for half a year. RTR covers astronomy and anatomy, ex-1850 covers botany and animals, and modern times covers chemistry and physics. This made me happy since it scared me to try to do science the WTM way without a schedule or help. And I don't have a library here!
Quality read alouds, if they relate to history, even better
Gentle art and music as a bonus (not necessary for a few years though...) I am glad this is included in MFW, and not just art and music history, but actual appreciation and instruction. Like I said, also included in book basket recs.

IS this MFW??????? I'm not asking too much, right? LOL!

 

 

[gratitude]

This just may be my last question, can you believe it? :-)

 

I do have an interest in doing HOD's Preparing at some point. If I did, where would be a logical place to insert it? Is there a MFW program that covers the same content, or is considered one in the same?

 

Lastly, I don't see American history anywhere on the 5 year cycle. Do any of you add it? I'd like to study it again at some point before high school. Thoughts?

 

 

Your best plan could possibly be:

 

ADV next year for 2nd / 1st

ECC or Preparing

ECC or Preparing that wasn't used for 3rd

CTG or CTC that have the same goal of ancients, but of course approach it slightly differently.

 

[gratitude]

 What I meant was you can't really judge HOD as a whole by one guide(especially doing like 3 weeks of it or something).   ;)

 

Too true!

[erikdeb]

Well, I did really like the progression I did. I wanted a filler year until my younger was ready for CtG in MFW. I'd say you can't really plan too far ahead about when to do Preparing if you want to insert it, because it really will only be a success if they place pretty well into it on the placement chart. However, with your ages and desires, I still recommend ADV, ECC, then Preparing, then whichever program you think will fit your needs better for Ancients.

[twoxcell]

 

Just to clarify I have embarrassingly tried HOD far more than 3 weeks trying to place my oldest who has very high reading skills and comprehension & memory and is difficult to place with his more average writing skills.  My earlier post was referring to one of the programs that we tried for 3 weeks, but not going into the actual HOD tour that we had.  We actually broke my home school budget in my attempts to place him.  He ended up doing 3 weeks of Beyond, 3 weeks of Bigger, 3 weeks of Preparing, and 3 weeks of CTC. Coming from MFW I found the programs to line up poorly for skill placement since they have a very different scope and sequence.  Carrie is very good at putting skills into her guides, but they build in a different order than Marie's approach.  Thus, the transition was difficult for us, and we never did end up doing even 1/2 a guide as a result.  Bigger starts drawing note booking that is harder than MFW1 as far as the drawing directions go, but easier as far as actual writing goes.  Preparing, the TM I read from cover to cover, started written narration note booking similar to MFW1 or ADV. I think HOD clearly BUILDS in skills and would work Best one guide after another. BUT, jumping in with a child whose skills are close together would be much easier than a child who spans many grade levels. CTC came the closest for him at age 9, but still over challenged in some areas (work load amount) and under challenged in other areas (amount of reading). He Loves history and the books we have from HOD, but hates the program itself. He has read ALL the HOD books from LHFHG thru CTC & DITHR readers through grade 5 (except for Child's History of the World that I chose to return).  As a result of our placement problems we were given a HOD over view tour; this is of course different from doing one full year or doing year after year.  Fortunately my oldest loves to read and put the books I bought to good use.  I just wanted to clarify where some of my understanding of HOD comes from.  The books really have been wonderful for our family and we have read many of them aloud, and my oldest has read the rest.  The program itself though wasn't a good fit for us, and I guess that is what we all have to determine for each of our families individually.  ;)

It is a good thing there are so many choices to meet our varying families needs. It can be messy sometimes wading through though. ;)

[Donna A.]

Well, I did really like the progression I did. I wanted a filler year until my younger was ready for CtG in MFW. I'd say you can't really plan too far ahead about when to do Preparing if you want to insert it, because it really will only be a success if they place pretty well into it on the placement chart. However, with your ages and desires, I still recommend ADV, ECC, then Preparing, then whichever program you think will fit your needs better for Ancients.

 

Agreeing with this.  *IF* you're going to do Preparing at some point, it would fit best between ECC and CTG as far as *content* goes (world geography, then world history overview, then begin world history more in-depth), BUT.....  that would assume your child actually fits into the "right" skill level for Preparing at that time.  And that's something you won't know until you get there.  And even if it does work out that way, what will you do with the younger kids while oldest is doing Preparing?  If your intent is to school your children together in the content subjects throughout the elementary years, taking a year off to do a skill-specific, approximate age-specific program for one child is going to throw the rest of them off.  I made this mistake, and it was a BIG mistake, as it messed us up the rest of the way through.  I've never been able to get back what I had before we did that. :sad:

 

Pulling one child out of the "group" to work independently changes the dynamics of everything.  It really does.  I sooooo wish I'd stuck to my guns and kept doing what *I* thought was best for the whole family instead of catering to the wishes of one particular child.  Especially at that age.  (And said child now agrees with me and admits that she was being selfish at the time. ;) )  It's not like she was already in high school and wanting to explore other options as a young adult who's trying to find her path.  She was a CHILD, and the content subjects are important.... that's not an area that I want "scripted" for an elementary aged child to work from independently.  I want ideas and guidance, and I want an overall plan, but that's for her dad and I, and our pastor, to teach, not someone who doesn't know my child and our family.  Our family dynamics in the learning process are important, too.  Now some families may have a child that they *need* to teach separately from the others for whatever reason....  but I'm telling you all this because it's important to keep in mind for YOUR family. 

 

And again, as far as a "filler" year, I want to remind you that ECC has a junior high supplement package which is intended for 7th or 8th graders who've either:

 

- not yet had the exposure to missionaries and exploring the different areas of ministry available to us, or

 

- those who need a better handle on geography in general and will be doing a 4-year history cycle in high school instead of the typical "1 year geography, 1 year world history, 1 year American history" path, or

 

- those who've done ECC at a younger age, but only did the younger, age-appropriate activities at that time, and now, as 12-14 year old in puberty who's about to launch into the world of high school and is thinking about things differently than they did at age 8 or 9, can get something very different out of the program than they did at that younger age.  Trust me, kids at age 13 "see" things very differently than they did at age 8. ;)  Their prayer life is different, their thoughts about eternity are different, their thoughts about the world and people around them are different, their knowledge and understanding of Scripture is a little deeper (or should be), and they're just more mature in general.  ECC for 8th grade doesn't have to be a heavy workload... it's okay to focus more on writing and other areas of language arts and math that need strengthened before high school instead of history, and there are other areas of "social studies" and electives that they can take time to explore, too.  And if it's okay for a child to cycle back and repeat one of the history years in the 5th year, then why not geography and missions, too?  And another, more thorough reading of the book of Matthew?  See what I mean? 

 

So as far as a "filler" year, it doesn't HAVE to be either before OR after ECC.  It can simply be ECC *again*, only more in-depth and with more meaning the second time. :)

 

We really do have a lot of options.... and maybe that's part of the problem. :lol:

[Meadowlark]

Okay, I'm not sure I'm understanding all of this, but I sure am trying!

 

So... From all of my HOD research and forum activity, I've heard that Preparing is a great program for 5th/4th. In the catalogue, Carrie actually has it slated for 4th/3rd. Being that my second oldest has a summer bday and so will always be young for his grade, I thought if we ever did do Preparing, I would do it in 5th/4th and use the extensions if needed for my oldest.

 

IF I do that, my plan would look like this (assuming I stick with MFW))

 

2nd/1st-Adv.

3rd/2nd- ECC

4th/3rd-??? Would CtoG be appropriate for this age level?

5th/4th- Preparing possibly?

 

If not this, what would you suggest? Aren't all of the MFW guides appropriate for all 2nd-8th graders, or is that not accurate?

 

It seems like I've read a lot about "waiting until kids are ready" for CtoG....

[Amy M]

I'm planning to use CTG for a 4th and 2nd grader, and yes, the MFW guides for the 5-year cycle are appropriate for 2nd-8th graders. Perhaps if you felt the kids weren't ready for CTG, you could do Preparing first.

[twoxcell]

Preparing is for 3rd-4th graders with extensions for 5th-6th, but Carrie puts ages instead of grades on the guides because they are skills based. ;)

[Meadowlark]

I'm planning to use CTG for a 4th and 2nd grader, and yes, the MFW guides for the 5-year cycle are appropriate for 2nd-8th graders. Perhaps if you felt the kids weren't ready for CTG, you could do Preparing first.

Is there a way I would know if they weren't ready? I guess I thought all of the 5 cycle guides WERE appropriate for any child, 2nd-8th. I assumed I as the teacher would just tweak for the age of the child, with suggestions to help me do that on the manual?

 

ETA: I'm not really trying to map out every detail of the future (I've learned how UNwise that is for me), but rather trying to see the big picture of MFW. I really want to stay the course with whatever I choos.

[Donna A.]

Okay, I'm not sure I'm understanding all of this, but I sure am trying!

 

So... From all of my HOD research and forum activity, I've heard that Preparing is a great program for 5th/4th. In the catalogue, Carrie actually has it slated for 4th/3rd. Being that my second oldest has a summer bday and so will always be young for his grade, I thought if we ever did do Preparing, I would do it in 5th/4th and use the extensions if needed for my oldest.

 

 

Again, it depends on your child's skill level *when he gets there*.  Like I said in my last post, that's something you won't know until he gets there.  You'll have to compare where he's at in skill level with the placement chart on the HOD website and see if it fits.  But you'll also have to decide what you're going to do with the other kids if you put your oldest in Preparing.  That's NOT something you need to decide, or can even know, right now.  This question should go in the "think about that later" box. :001_smile:   *MY* concern, personally, from one of my posts way earlier in the thread, was that CHOW (the main history spine used in Preparing) would be too much for a younger child.  Again, that's something you'll have to think about later when you're reading to possibly do the program and take a look through the book to see if you're okay with how the author addresses the ancient pagan cultures, myths, and all that.  This is kind of one of those "personal family preference" things.

 

Also, I like the book Grandpa's Box a LOT (which is the other main history book used in Preparing), but it does present the Christian life and biblical stories from the Old Testament through the New as a "spiritual battle".  Which is true, but it's a concept some younger kids might not "get".  And that's okay... there's a lot that some younger kids won't get no matter what we're using as a family read-aloud, main spine, or whatever.  They'll get it again later, when their little minds and hearts are more mature. 

 

IF I do that, my plan would look like this (assuming I stick with MFW))

 

2nd/1st-Adv.

3rd/2nd- ECC

4th/3rd-??? Would CtoG be appropriate for this age level?

5th/4th- Preparing possibly?

 

If not this, what would you suggest? Aren't all of the MFW guides appropriate for all 2nd-8th graders, or is that not accurate?

 

It seems like I've read a lot about "waiting until kids are ready" for CtoG.... 

 

 

I think that some people who haven't used it are assuming that CTG has a lot of graphic material in it.  It doesn't.  Let me explain.

 

Yes, MFW CTG *is* appropriate for 3rd/4th grade.  It's appropriate for any age, in fact.  Yes, all the elementary MFW guides are appropriate for 2nd-8th graders -- and even younger, as the "2nd-8th grades" definition is referring to the age of the oldest child in a multi-age setting... primarily for practical teaching purposes.  If you're a mom who's not fond of, or is unable to, teach multiple ages together, then this likely won't be a good fit for you.  But for those of us who prefer to keep our kids together in the content subjects, this is who they're talking to. :)

 

The main spine in CTG is the Bible... the Old Testament, to be specific.  The history period covered during that time frame include Egypt and Greece, both of which are often mentioned throughout the OT as references to their pagan gods, leaders (often by name), wars with those pagan countries, WHY God told them to go to war with so-and-so, etc.  So for example, you'll learn why God sent those particular 10 plagues when Pharaoh wasn't wanting to let the Israelites go free from their slavery in Egypt.  (Each plague represents one of the gods that Egypt worshiped at the time.)  So Marie is really tying biblical and secular history together here... ALL of which is again referenced (quoted) many times in the New Testament by both Jesus and the Apostles.  I remember that when I was a brand new Christian, I began reading my Bible in Matthew because I wanted to know exactly who Jesus was when He was on earth, how he lived, etc.  As I read through the NT, I kept noticing all these references to the OT and I was confused by that.  So as soon as I finished Revelation, I was anxious to go back to Genesis and read the OT so that I could find out what those references in the NT meant!  Well, that is EXACTLY what Marie is trying to do here in CTG... even right down to the Jewish feasts.

 

Marie does NOT schedule the graphic scenes of the OT for younger children to read, however.  (A more thorough study of the OT is scheduled in high school.)  But in elementary CTG, Marie schedules the "main story points", so to speak, in order to show how the entire OT points to the coming of Christ, and the symbolism of all those "types and shadows" of the OT and what God intended for them.  In fact, when you begin RTR, there's a review of the OT prophecies of Christ as you study the founding of Rome -- which happened right before Christ came, during the "silent years" of the Bible between OT and NT -- His coming, and the significance of the power of Rome at that exact time in history.  Anyway, then on the grid you see a lot of days where there's an "Advanced" reading listed.... this would be for older children who can handle more details of what's going on.  So there's two different readings.... a "younger" one, and an "advanced" one.  You choose.  If you have an older child who can grasp more detail, then you would read the "younger" scheduled reading aloud as a family, but read the "advanced" assignments with the older child 1-on-1 with him, OR have him read it independently.  Or maybe have Dad do it in the evening.  Whatever works best for you.

 

Book basket has a lot of books (and some videos) that are age-appropriate for a wide range of ages, so you can supplement with this -- as time and interest allow -- for everyone in the family from preschoolers all the way up to Mom and Dad. ;)

 

Secular history in CTG comes from Book Basket and a handful of books that are used as reference material, which are scheduled on the grid.  History and Bible both are presented with a literal 6-day Creation worldview. 

 

Really, the only books scheduled on the grid in CTG that might not be appropriate for a younger child are The Children's Homer (skip it if you want), and some parts of Streams.  And it isn't that Streams isn't "appropriate" (as far as content is concerned), but rather, that it's a high school text which is included for either the parent to glean and summarize more geographical and historical detail for the kids as you see fit, or for an older child to read on his own *if* he's wanting or needing "more".  IOW, Streams is treated as "reference material" in MFW.  You do NOT read it cover to cover.  (Well, I guess you could if you wanted to.... LOL)

 

Part of the goal of MFW is to teach our children to consult multiple resources to search for the facts because *everyone* has a bias of some sort.... there are many different opinions about Christopher Columbus, for example. :rolleyes:   MFW teaches you to do the research and come to your own conclusions on this.  Only the Word of God is infallible.  But that's why you see such a wide variety of resources throughout the MFW programs, and Bible is a heavy part of it.... partly to teach the process of research (without depending on the internet, hopefully), and lay a foundation for better communication (both written and oral) in the future, and part of it is to provide a variety of resources for the range of ages, abilities, and interest levels that each family might have in their homes.

 

So, if you've seen Grandpa's Box (one of the main books used in Preparing), then you can see how it would actually fit very nicely with MFW CTG.  Even CHOW would work if you really wanted to use that book, too.  It wouldn't be necessary because you'd be duplicating content, but it would work.  Actually, both of those books would/could be split between MFW CTG and RTR.  Ditto with all the other books scheduled in Preparing.  In fact, many of the Preparing books are scheduled in CTG and RTR *or* are listed as optional in Book Basket.  So if you're drawn to Preparing primarily because of the books that are scheduled.... you don't need to take a whole year to do Preparing for that. It certainly won't hurt if you want to, but you don't need to.  (IOW, you won't be missing anything by NOT doing Preparing.)  However, maybe now you can see the reason why some of us suggest doing Preparing in between ECC and CTG, if at all. :001_smile:

 

One more comment re: age-appropriateness.  I mentioned Book Basket for a wide range of ages, but there's also the various cooking activities, art and music, crafts, games, science projects, notebooking assignments (Marie's instructions for different ages) that make CTG -- and each year of MFW elementary -- appropriate for both younger and older kids.  Since we're having a church picnic on Saturday for our *whole* church family, from preschool through adult ages, I'll use that analogy.... think of planning a large "family" activity like that.  You're going to have food, movies, games, activities, etc. there for *everyone*, right?  Well, it's kinda' like that in MFW elementary.  Yes, some books and assignments are intended for older kids, but the opposite is also true.  That's what makes MFW a multi-age curriculum in all of those "content" subjects.  But each child still does the 3 R's at their own level.

 

I hope that helps explain it a bit more and doesn't just make it more confusing. :001_cool:   Keep asking questions if you're not sure!

[Donna A.]

Is there a way I would know if they weren't ready? I guess I thought all of the 5 cycle guides WERE appropriate for any child, 2nd-8th. I assumed I as the teacher would just tweak for the age of the child, with suggestions to help me do that on the manual?

 

ETA: I'm not really trying to map out every detail of the future (I've learned how UNwise that is for me), but rather trying to see the big picture of MFW. I really want to stay the course with whatever I choos.

 

I'm not sure what "ready for CTG" means by those who say that.  You ARE understanding it correctly, Amysue. :thumbup: 

[erikdeb]

I will say, for me, waiting for my younger to be ready for CtG was because my younger was, at the time, going to be in first grade. I wanted him to be in at least 2nd, and it just made sense to have the older wait so they could go through the cycle together. And the CtG stuff just did not look fun and interesting to me for him that year. So we took a detour. Things have changed a bit...so we are still dancing around a bit. My older is going to finish Preparing finally in the next few weeks. He started it mid-way through third grade, quite succesfully. My current new third-grader would not be ready for it just yet, but if he were doing it with an older sibling I think it would work alright, with some shortening of assignments, some scribing by me, etc. But I still wouldn't try to plan ahead as to when he could do Preparing in the future. I do think it's a wonderful detour year, though.

[Donna A.]

I will say, for me, waiting for my younger to be ready for CtG was because my younger was, at the time, going to be in first grade. I wanted him to be in at least 2nd, and it just made sense to have the older wait so they could go through the cycle together. And the CtG stuff just did not look fun and interesting to me for him that year. So we took a detour. Things have changed a bit...so we are still dancing around a bit. My older is going to finish Preparing finally in the next few weeks. He started it mid-way through third grade, quite succesfully. My current new third-grader would not be ready for it just yet, but if he were doing it with an older sibling I think it would work alright, with some shortening of assignments, some scribing by me, etc. But I still wouldn't try to plan ahead as to when he could do Preparing in the future. I do think it's a wonderful detour year, though.

 

Okay, so you decided this route without having seen the CTG manual, correct?  So you might not have understood what all is there for younger kids...   Maybe you said this earlier in the thread, I don't remember, but did you use MFW 1st?  That year and CTG actually dovetail very nicely together.... just FYI for anyone who has both an older sibling and a 1st grader. :)  In fact, some of the same activities (for younger kids) are in CTG that are in the 1st grade program, which is a Bible overview year. 

[abrightmom]

Donna,

 

You are such a blessing to Mamas trying to figure this stuff out! Thanks for taking the time to explain everything in detail. I know for ME it took getting to this point in the home schooling journey to really understand why you say what you do. I really wish we had not left MFW and I find it hard to get back on the bus .....  :coolgleamA:

 

OP, there's a lot of info. here and I want to encourage you to choose what you want to do and what seems best for RIGHT NOW. I completely understand trying to wrap your brain about the possibilities and sketch out a long term plan though. It's wise because you need to know where you want to get to so you plot the course, right?! I've erred in not doing that. I was like the donkey that is standing between two stacks of hay and starves to death because it couldn't decide which side to eat first. Sadly, my oldest has missed out on ECC and CtG (and I bought them both and returned them both at different times and regretted it both times .... ). 

 

IMHO, if you plan to use Preparing and no other HOD guides than you should just enjoy it BEFORE the 4-year CtG - 1850/MOD cycle in MFW since it is an overview of history. You'll be modifying anyway since you're not following HOD's idea of skill progression (and HOD's idea or way is not Scripture ;) ). I agree with Donna that if you simply love the books used in Preparing just fold them in. Grandpa's Box can be read with CTG for sure. And Marie doesn't schedule non stop read alouds so you have plenty of opportunities to grab desired books and schedule them in or put them in a book basket. I now find it IMPOSSIBLE to keep enough good books strewn about. My older boys read everything and I'm scrambling .... another reason that Book Basket is manna for us. It helps to nourish and sustain. Those beloved HOD books are included in MFW's book basket lists and can easily be put in to your MFW rotation throughout the years. Without a doubt Carrie does choose delicious books but those treats can be enjoyed outside of the HOD experience for SURE. 

 

You'll find your way!  :coolgleamA:

 

[erikdeb]

Okay, so you decided this route without having seen the CTG manual, correct?  So you might not have understood what all is there for younger kids...   Maybe you said this earlier in the thread, I don't remember, but did you use MFW 1st?  That year and CTG actually dovetail very nicely together.... just FYI for anyone who has both an older sibling and a 1st grader. :)  In fact, some of the same activities (for younger kids) are in CTG that are in the 1st grade program, which is a Bible overview year. 

 

Yes, I looked extensively at the CTG manual, and the other books, and the sample student pages. I spent a ton of time looking at the MFW booth (which up to that point was all I had used) and the HOD booth, and I just couldn't get excited about doing CTG with my 3rd and 1st graders. I didn't want to do MFW 1st with my younger for first grade for various reasons. I did do MFW K with him, and did K, 1st, ADV, and ECC (and enjoyed all of them) with the older. After looking for hours at the 2 booths, I went with a filler year of Preparing (LOVE) and Beyond (epic fail) (I did do the Bible reader and notebook from MFW 1st too with him). The plan being to go back to CtG when they were both ready for it. Our filler year took a long time, though, and the plan is a little off-kilter...so I am in 'take-it-as-it-comes' mode now.

 

I am not at all trying to turn anyone away from CTG, really just offering her what I did because she mentioned wanting to add in a year of Preparing, and it fits great before CTG since it is the one year overview.

[gratitude]

Deleted....................

[erikdeb]

:iagree:  Yeah, that.  I really vote, do ADV now, and when you near the end of it, figure out what you want to do next.

 

 

I do, however, think Preparing is alright without the buildup from the other guides, though it may take some building up to at first.

[Meadowlark]

I can't figure out how to quote a sentence or paragraph on the iPad, but if I could, Donna-I would have quoted your sentence about wanting or not wanting to teach my kids together in the content areas. YES!!! I do! That is the attraction to MFW for me. My oldest is 6 and my youngest is 6 mo. so I hope to someday have the whole family completely immersed in whatever time period we are studying, with books flooding my living room floor, projects half built on the kitchen table, everybody smiling and enthusiastically working...ha ha. That's how it always goes for all of you, right? *wink*

 

Seriously, I know reality is not like that but things sure will be easier if I'm at least able to do that. Regarding my Preparing comment, I do understand placement of HOD and yes, I agree I need to muzzle these thoughts about 4-5 years into the future and focus on the here and now.

 

About my younger kids...when my oldest two are in 5th/4th...the next two would be in 1st/K. I personally only do math and reading at that age so what I'm doing with the olders would not really affect them anyway. I am VERY careful of what little ears hear and little ears see so I'm confident I could pull that off IF I did Preparing. Mostly, I guess I was asking because having not done Preparing (but have read over and over again how wonderful it is) or any of MFW, I didn't know how the programs lined up or if I would be repeating content or a certain historical time perios. From Donna's earlier post, Preparing is an overview and CtoG is world history but at a deeper level. So they COULD be done back to back, right? Has anyone done this? Is there any reason why someone might not want to do this?

 

Donna, your post was incredibly detailed and helpful, thank you! Im typing at a snails pace on this darn iPad, otherwise I could thank each of you and express my thoughts a little more clearly.

 

I'm so excited that every guide can be for 2nd-8th grade. What a brilliant idea for those of us wanting and needing to keep our kids together!

[gratitude]

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[gratitude]

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[Meadowlark]

A few questions for OP Amy:

 

Do you like LHFHG enough to even think about more HOD TMs? I was under the impression you did not. Some moms don't like LHFHG and then like upper guides. For me though I have found the things I didn't like & liked about LHFHG to be the same issues in higher guides.

 

Are you interested enough in MFW to give it a try and see if you like it enough to stay with it?

 

Another thought I mean kindly:

Don't worry about tomorrow for today has plenty of worries of its own. (Jesus in book of Matthew)

 

I would start by TRYING MFW. Then if you like it you will know one TM to the next if it is worth continuing.

 

I wasn't under the impression you like HOD. If I am wrong honestly your best plan is to move one guide to the next for her gentle and thorough skill building. Seriously. It would be the best way to do Preparing; lead into it with Carries build up. It is the best way to do any math program, English, or HOD IMO. Start at the bottom & build up.

 

I wouldn't focus too much on MFW as a whole. You may hate ADV or may Love it. The only way to find out is to start.

 

Honestly your list made me think of Ambleside. Have you looked into it?

Hmm...great questions. Well, I'm hardly using much of LHFHG at this point. I think I like the looks of Beyond better, but probably not enough to say I would keep going. There are just too many things that are not jiving for me (discussed earlier in the post). But yes, I've heard time and time again that the guides get better and that Preparing is THE best, so that's why I hated to miss out on it. But I can see that using the books, etc would be like having a piece of the pie without buying the whole pie. I probably need to throw out the HOD catalog so I'm not tempted.

 

You are right, I think I'll try adventures next year (hip hip hooray, a decision!) And then go from there.

 

I kind of made the same decision last year with HOD, and well, I regret that. I need to learn to live in the now. Now, let's talk about how to do THAT! :-) JK, y'all! Big hugs to you and thank you! I just may be the next MFW cheerleader...time will tell!

[erikdeb]

Yes, throw away the catalog, do Adventures this year. Definitely.

 

Yes, Preparing can go before CtG. That is how Carrie has it set up in the HOD cycle, too. A quick one-year overview of world history, then starts in with Ancients the following year. So IF you still wanted to do another filler year for whatever reason, it would be more than fine to do those back to back. Or maybe you will be ready to go straight to CtG after ECC. (ECC, we loved...but it took us a year and a half. I have since quit trying to plan very far ahead. :) )

[MolleenCarie]

We are having similar years!  Your DH showed great wisdom.  I have been trying to 'do it all' like I would if I didn't have a DS child, and it resulted in a near burn out last June.  Over time I have realized she really does take extra work and a lot of my energy.  I guess I have known that from day 1, but it sank in more over time.

 

I am loving pulling back too!  Bible and the 3 Rs and reading aloud to them is plenty in our situation!  Whatever geography and science I have done this school year has been gravy as well.  I have both, but I am not feeling guilt (finally) over the fact that once or twice week for either is really all that we can do.

 

I don't have a blog.  It does cross my mind from time to time.  Do you have one?

 

I have questioned my choice to home school our child with DS, but it is what we have done.  She had a lot of medical issues early on and by the time we called early intervention she was 2 1/2, and too close to age 3 to receive it.  We did do a lot of therapy this past summer and the summer prior to it.  I had an epiphany of sorts recently though after a session.  The therapist couldn't get her to do a certain food activity at the session.  I came home and had her do the same activity 10 times repeatedly in 2 minutes with ease.  It suddenly hit me for the first time that some of the reasons I choose to home school apply just as much, if not more, to her.  I can reach her more easily in the areas she needs work since I have a relationship with her.  When I take her to an appointment they are only as far as their relationship has built over once a week sessions; thus, she does far less for the therapist at a session than she is able to do at home in the areas she is working on in therapy.   It reminded me of a young DS boy we knew at one point that would eat at school (where he was taught to eat by therapists) but not eat at home.  Hmmm....  Where I want her to learn and apply knowledge is at home since at 18 she won't be going into the world.  These are recent light bulbs, but I think it is the first confirmation I have had for our decision to home school her.  At 4 1/2 she is wearing 2T / 3T clothes and reminds me of my other children at around 18 months.  Sending her to a big public school for K next year would be like sending a toddler, one year old, to public school.  I don't know if other DS children are where she is at for this age, but for her it would seem close to crazy to me.  You are correct though early intervention leads right into age 3 pre school with the public school system that leads to special education classes in the public school.  My understanding is the classes focus a lot on OT, physical therapy, etc.  It is what has made me doubt home schooling her.  I can not give her that type of class instruction or attention.  I do though know what stage she is at and what she needs to learn next and I can work on those things like I would with another child.  The thing I have noticed about DS is they learn just LIKE our other children.  It is just SLOWER.  For example, right now she is testing me and testing boundaries just like any child between 12 - 18 months of age does.  She tests exactly the same.  She just does it more times before she stops.  Or, learning to eat with a spoon.  My other kids picked up the spoon, tried it, and did it.  We had to teach her to feed herself with a spoon and it took weeks of effort.  Every tiny stage of development other kids fly through in hours she might spend weeks on.  So to teach her something we just need to include all those baby steps.  We also need to teach things we never taught our other children.  She did learn to walk on her own though just like they all do!  A DS parent once told me the old word no one likes of retarded actually describes the situation well.  Retarded just means slowed down.  It means to go slower.  It describes the physics of what is really happening for a child with DS.  They learn more slowly.  Not differently, slower.  

 

Rod and Staff has a book I want to order at some point that another mom recommended on-line with a DS child she home schools.  She said that reading it helped a lot.  Here is the link:

 

Rod and Staff Books & More: Special Education

 

I am glad you are having a good year!  I am too...peaceful.  It gives me the time I need to be in the Word, if I don't try to do more than we can do.  

 

I am glad you hijacked.  I hope the original OP doesn't mind!  It always helps to have a minute with another mom with a DS child.  I hope it is going well for your family.   :)

 

 

Your post was so encouraging to read!  Thank you for the book recommendation.

 

I am in agreement with you about sending my baby off to school.  I just don't see it happening.  He might go to school for therapy if we can't find an alternative, but I don't plan on sending him for the whole day.  I appreciate you sharing your perspective and wisdom.  I am realizing what you mean about him learning more slowly and having to be taught things that came naturally to my other babies.   He is much more content that they were, which translates to not having as much drive.  He rolled over on his own and sat up very easily, but asking for more food and self-feeding  are more challenging.  However, for every challenge, there is a special quality that wasn't there with the others.  His whole body melts when he smiles, he is extra cuddly, and he's very gentle. 

 

I do have a blog, but with only two posts.  LOL.  

 

Yes, thank you to AmySue for letting us chat within your thread! 

[MolleenCarie]

Hmm...great questions. Well, I'm hardly using much of LHFHG at this point. I think I like the looks of Beyond better, but probably not enough to say I would keep going. There are just too many things that are not jiving for me (discussed earlier in the post). But yes, I've heard time and time again that the guides get better and that Preparing is THE best, so that's why I hated to miss out on it. But I can see that using the books, etc would be like having a piece of the pie without buying the whole pie. I probably need to throw out the HOD catalog so I'm not tempted.

 

You are right, I think I'll try adventures next year (hip hip hooray, a decision!) And then go from there.

 

I kind of made the same decision last year with HOD, and well, I regret that. I need to learn to live in the now. Now, let's talk about how to do THAT! :-) JK, y'all! Big hugs to you and thank you! I just may be the next MFW cheerleader...time will tell!

:hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:

 

I'm so glad to read you've come to a decision!  That's a relief.  :)

[Mom2TheTeam]

Amy - I think that is a great decision.  It is hard to think about missing out on something that so many think is the "best" and has been painted in such a wonderful light.  The thing is if the program overall isn't a good fit for your family, then it just isn't.  I also agree with Gratitude that the best way to get the most out of a program is to stick with it.  So, Preparing may be a great program.  But, it might be amazing in the context of the rest of her guides and it might just be okay as a stand alone.  I don't know.

 

At any rate, I like to plan ahead, but you still have to take it with a grain of salt and really only solidly plan year to year, especially in the first couple years of a program like HOD or MFW.  You may think you are going to love it, but you might not.  Starting with Adv and going from there is a great plan.  If you have any questions about it, feel free to ask.  I've hashed out a lot of it as have many others.  The heart of MFW is wonderful.  I really hope you love it!  :D

 

Thanks for talking it out with us.  I've enjoyed the conversation, especially since I have a "is the grass greener?" thing going on with HOD.  Maybe after you've done MFW, you can compare for me.  ;)

[Donna A.]

You know, on this topic of "planning ahead"....  Someone earlier mentioned that they literally read through several of the MFW manuals in order to see the big picture and make a decision.  I actually did something similar.... not with the manuals themselves, but I did print off all the sample lessons from all the years of MFW and read through those.  It gave me a pretty good idea of their overall goals and philosophy.  Be sure to read not only the lesson plans showing on the grid, but also Marie's notes following the grid.  Take a look at *how* they're using the different books, and what ages the different books are intended for.  See if you can see what she's trying to pull together over the course of a few weeks... or a few years.  See if you can see her long-term vision.  (And don't forget high school, too!)

 

Then I started listening to some of David's conference CDs, and one in particular was what made the difference for me.... keep in mind that I had also read The Well Trained Mind shortly before all this.  I liked that TWTM gave me an overall "direction" or "plan" for the content subjects, but I'm too CM to spend that many hours a day on academics alone, and TWTM is also missing biblical worldview.  So that's why I went searching in the first place and found MFW.  (My oldest was 9 at this point, and prior to that, I was just sort of "winging it" from year to year in the areas of history, Bible and science.) 

 

Anyway, the CD that turned on the lightbulb for my dh and I was "What Should 21st Century Christians Be Teaching".  Although I believe it was a slightly different title at the time, but you can order the CD here (about halfway down): http://www.mfwbooks.com/products/M50/105/0/0/1

 

That CD explains some of the differences between what MFW does and what you find in a "classical" education.... and WHY.  If you don't know WHY you're doing what you're doing, or why MFW does this or doesn't do that, then it's hard to stay the course when life gets difficult. 

Edited September 27, 2013 by Donna A.

[Guest]

Donna, are his cds available as downloads?

[Donna A.]

Donna, are his cds available as downloads?

 

Here are some... I don't see the one I linked above, though.  (Note that the CDs from their website are actually cheaper than both the CDs AND downloads on this site!)  https://resoundingvoice.com/?s=hazell&post_type=product

 

I'll keep looking.

[Donna A.]

Found one that you can listen to immediately... I've not heard this one before, but it sounds good so far.  (Listening to it now.)  "School at Home or Family Discipleship?"  http://www.hche.org/Mp3.jsp?id=973&SectionID=3

 

 

[aprilsblessings]

I'm glad you were able to make a decision.  Just some random thought to add.

 

I just wanted to encourage you that if you find yourself questioning that decision - not that I do that at all ;)  - go through and read the Beyond activities and how much you are reading a day.  I personally want to read more.  You can add in from the MFW book basket or any books because you have more of a theme for the week in MFW.  Every time I read back through the HOD manual I realize I can not see us doing the activities but MFW Adventure's activities seem more like a project to me which is what I am looking for.  

 

I also would rather read The Story of the Pilgrims through the month of November instead of the 13 weeks it is scheduled.  ;)

 

I too am one drawn to HOD on paper but do not like it in reality for our family.  I haven't really figured out our plan... hopefully as time goes on everything will fall into place.

 

Enjoy the journey!!

[gratitude]

Notebooking with HOD starts with Bigger Hearts, and I agree with Donna I would not do Preparing with a 2nd and 3rd grader. I own and have used all HOD guides from Little Hands-CTC, but I have no experience with MFW other than browsing their website.  ;) I think something many people miss with HOD is the progression as you go through guides. You really can't take one HOD guide and decide if you like HOD. There is a progression of skills and learning that a child goes through as they complete guides. Not sure if that makes sense but as my older dc have each gone through several I can see where HOD is headed and get a better idea of everything they will learn through the years. In the end I think it is better to pick something for the year and embrace it rather than to keep changing and worrying about choosing the "best" program.

 

Preparing is an overview of world history from creation until modern times. There is ancients in it but CTC is the guide that covers ancients. Preparing and CTC both use Bible reading for history as well as other history books. I also wanted to say it is perfectly fine to just use one HOD guide. What I meant was you can't really judge HOD as a whole by one guide(especially doing like 3 weeks of it or something). That would be like reading one random book out of a series. I'm not sure if that makes sense but it does in my head. ;)

 

I don't usually think about threads after the fact, but this thread has stayed with me! 

 

Hopefully what I have to say to the OP will be helpful.

 

A couple of things.  The poster above that I quoted is absolutely right.  Anything 'I said' on HOD should be disregarded.  My consious has pricked me how much my words would be considered 'gossip or tale bearing that is a sin'.  I am sorry twoxcell.  The reason is simple of why what she said is absolutely correct.  It is true that '3 weeks' does not tell anyone truly about a program.    It takes 'doing' a program to truly understand a 'program'.  Not 3 weeks, or 6 weeks, or even one year will give that knowledge.  It is the knowledge of TM after TM and seeing where an author takes an education.

 

The best moms to truly listen to on this thread Amy would be twooxcell for HOD and Donna and Crystal for MFW.  All 3 of them have years and years in the trenches with one program.  It is those years that builds up to a real picture.  The only things I truly learned about HOD in my trials were that I failed to implement it (partly due to my own home school mom insecurities and pride that went before the fall) and that Carrie has incredible book picks.  Even after 3 1/2 years of MFW I couldn't give a full picture of it.  What I could give is my understanding of the first cycle and what I think MFW's goals are based on 6 weeks of ECC.

 

To the OP:

 

I would really take the time to decide what you want your home school to look like and then try your best to pick a program that will fit those goals.  It may not fit perfectly, but have the patience to implement it long enough to really find out.  If you fell in love with HOD and MFW you might have to give both an honest trial run.  6 weeks into LHFHG with only doing parts of the guide is not going to show you what Carrie and HOD are really about.  Just like 6 weeks into ECC would not tell me truly what MFW is all about.  The reason I have a much fuller picture of MFW, than those six weeks give, is 3 1/2 years prior to it and having done MFWK thru ADV.  My picture of the 'cycle' though from those six weeks is a small tiny slice of a really big 5 year pie.  Does that make sense?

 

There are many types of home schooling methods:

 

1.  Text books ~ A Beka, BJU, Alpha Omega, etc.

 

2.  Charlotte Mason ~ Simply Charlotte Mason, Beautiful Feet, Ambleside, and Carrie used a lot of CM teachings when she put together HOD.  Reading some CM herself would help in implementing any of these programs or the first cycle (MFWK - ADV) of MFW.  

 

3.  Principle Approach ~ Providential History.  NOAH, shows up some in Beautiful Feet.

 

4.  Classical ~ WTM, Classical Conversations, etc.

 

5.  Literature based ~ Sonlight, etc.

 

6.  MFW ~ a mix of CM, Classical, their own mission statement, etc.

 

7.  Unit studies ~ MFW, etc.

 

etc.., etc..., etc.

 

My guess is some of these methods will apply to you more than others.  The challenge is learning enough about ourselves, our students, and the methods to choose a path for each of our own home schools.

 

The reason I said that your description of projects and books everywhere sounded like MFW is because of their book basket and hands on projects.  It is actually the two areas I have struggled most with in the program!  For another mom though they are the reason they stay.  The challenge is to work through it all while home schooling a K and first.

 

I recently went back through every single curriculum idea I have ever had and it was interesting.  After 4 years of teaching under my belt it was so easy to sort through all of the options.  I know enough about CM, classical, text books, etc. to know how to sort through options and what works and what doesn't.  It was really interesting.  My insights were so much greater going back through all those companies web-sites.  Instead of days it took an hour or so for each one and then I knew my answers.  Very interesting.  It is the experience you don't have yet, but you will get there.

 

Prayers for your decision...you have time.  :hurray:

[twoxcell]

 

A couple of things.  The poster above that I quoted is absolutely right.  Anything 'I said' on HOD should be disregarded.  My consious has pricked me how much my words would be considered 'gossip or tale bearing that is a sin'.  I am sorry twoxcell.  The reason is simple of why what she said is absolutely correct.  It is true that '3 weeks' does not tell anyone truly about a program.  Even with my whirl wind tour I never 'got' the real picture of HOD, Carrie's goals, the skills built into the program, the level of difficulty of Bigger or Preparing (I think I realized how hard CTC is), etc.  It takes 'doing' a program to truly understand a 'program'.  Not 3 weeks, or 6 weeks, or even one year will give that knowledge.  It is the knowledge of TM after TM and seeing where an author takes an education.

Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't trying to slam anybody. Everyone's views are valid. I just wanted to point out something I have seen many times with all sorts of programs. :)

[Meadowlark]

Yes, "gratitude", I understand what you are saying and its all very helpful. I am definitely in the process of sorting through everything trying to figure it all out. The only thing I do wonder, is if it is possible to figure all of this out without wasting money and having curriculum sitting unused on a shelf? I really do not want to do that again. I'm hoping and praying that all of the research and thinking/conversing can help me to not do that again.

 

Regarding my experience with HOD, I agree that a 6 week run with one program cannot paint the whole picture of it. However, the curriculum choices that I'm 100% thrilled with so far were just love at first sight. I looked at them and just knew that they fit my teaching style and just kind of clicked with me. I fell in love with HOD on paper, yes, but my gut has told me from the beginning that it's just not for us. It felt really "off" if that makes sense...for many reasons. I'm still using math from both LHFHG and Beyond, so I have both manuals on my counter every day. I periodically glance at the left page and most of the time, I'm reminded of why It didn't work. I'm also a former teacher, so curriculum is nothing new to me. In that regard, I do think a person can get an idea if something will work based on a short amount of time. The end destination is important, but you have to enjoy the journey too!

 

Based on your list, MFW really resonates with me, hip hip hooray!