LOF as main math text?

[allison.ls]

I feel like I have been through so many different math programs that ODD has deemed boring. We have done Horizons, Math Mammoth, Saxon, Singapore and LOF. She loves LOF and will do it willingly and will do a few chapters at a time bc she loves it. She gets the practice problems right but it makes me nervous since there are so few practice problems. She is ready for Per Algebra now and I was thinking AOPS since so many of you love it, but since she loves LOF maybe I should stick with that? Ever since she started Fractions I have been having her do Khan Academy for whatever topic was in Fred. Any advice? Math is really important to us so I want to make sure I get it right!!

 

 

[Dmmetler]

I used Fred Pre-Algebra along with Key to Algebra as additional practice (and often, incremental practice on similar problems if DD struggled with a "Your turn to Play", plus additional supplements and resources (she also does Mathletics, and I have TFB and lots of bookmarked math sites).

 

It really was a good combination for a 7 yr old who was ready for higher math, but, I think, would have been overwhelmed by a traditional math book at that stage. DD needed practice in copying problems over and setting them up on separate paper, for example, and just in doing a problem set.

 

My plans for this fall are to combine LoF Algebra with AOPS Pre-Algebra, and to continue doing AOPS a book behind (so do the 1st half of AOPS Beginning Algebra with LOF Advanced algebra). I think DD is much more ready for AOPS this year than she would have been last year, not because of math skills, but because of maturity.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Here is the thing with the PreA books: they are weird, even by LOF standards. The PreA w/ Bio book has arithmetic review and a lot of time spent on genetics & botany. The PreA w/ Econ book starts with a really great explanation of how to set up algebraic word problems, but then devolves (IMO) into the strangest mix of libertarian economics & revisionist political history that I've read in a long time. I'm just not going to be able to stomach it - I know it could lead to a lot of interesting discussions about historiography and economics, but I really needed something she could use independently for math, KWIM?

 

Obviously, everything I've just said is filtered through my own bias, I'm a liberal NoCal girl, so YMMV! But having become disillusioned with the book just yesterday, I thought I should add a word of warning. If you buy the book from Z-Twist, the publisher, you can preview it and return it if it isn't to your liking.

[NittanyJen]

From Fractions onward, yes, the LOF books stand alone nicely in terms of math coverage, with two caveats:

 

Even for a bright student, I would not allow more than two chapters per day in Fractions or Decimals, and no more than 3 every two days in the preA books. Yes, I get it. I too have very gifted kids who get math and who love Fred. It is like trying to hold back water! So why do it? Because the math is deceptively deep, and kids who race through will inevitably gloss over the things that are being less explicitly taught and miss them. Fred teaches two things-- math, and how to really learn from a book, or how my son phrased it, "Finally, a math book that treats me as if I have a brain!" He likened learning from Fred to having a conversation with the author. If a student-- even highly gifted-- zooms through five chapters in a day and misses material, the fault is not in the book; it is not intended to be zipped through that way, which is tough or the kids to learn at irst, but a great thing to learn!

 

Second, I agree with Rose, above. Be prepared to have some conversation over the second preA book or skip it. It sparked a so-far enduring curiosity about economics in my son. He now spends his free time reading about how Greece's economy is affecting the Euro (doesn't every American 12YO?). But the politics and opinions in that particular book are kind of wacky. Whereas economics was a major factor in causing the civil war, the author would have kids believe it was THE cause of the civil war. One could argue that point from an economist's POV, but given the age of the kids reading these books, I don't think it is an appropriate tack to diminish the human and social costs of slavery and their role in the war in this fashion-- he shoots about a decade over the kds' heads, I think, and really risks messing with their age-appropriate understanding of history. (I am not calling kids dumb, nor saying kids should be taught incorrectly-- but that the book swings out of balance too far in one direction).

 

Once the series returns to Beginning Algebra, it is once again rock solid.

 

I don't worry about the number of problems. Fractions are not rocket science, and once learned, are used continuously throughout the rest of mathematics. It is not as if they disappear and need to be reviewed later.

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

So Jen, you think a kid can still pick up Beg Alg even if they skip PreA w/ Econ? She'll be doing lots of other PreA stuff, so I assume the answer is yes, but it's reassuring to realize I'm not the first to contemplate giving this book a pass!

 

BTW, I always enjoy your explanations about how your son uses & enjoys LOF! We're using it a bit differently, as review and application of concepts taught directly using MM (so far), and that works well for us. I always enjoy reading how people use the same materials differently.

[Dmmetler]

We had a lot of discussions about opinion and multiple interpretations about the 2nd pre-Algebra book, and I told my DD flat out that she didn't have to answer the economics questions in the Your turn to play sections if she didn't want to. I agree he overshot his audience a bit-and that's thinking of his audience as middle school age kids, not elementary.

 

I do think the rate problems and charting strategy (6 pretty boxes) are worth going over in some form before starting Beginning Algebra because they're so heavily taught in the last half of Pre-Algebra w/econ, and reappear later.

[Spetzi]

Obviously, you may have a different experience. This is with a math-oriented kid. We used LOF as a supplement until Beg Alg. My ds completed Beg Alg and felt that there wasn't enough practice. So for Alg II and Geometry we added the Teaching Textbooks book (not the CDs).

 

I know all topics are covered. I felt Fred helped my dc understand the concepts right away, but that there is not as much time spent finding how one might implement those skills or how they relate to other concepts. By adding in another curric I felt that these connections were made and gave him a very solid understanding.

 

We are back to Fred alone for Trig. He's almost done we'll see how it goes.

[NittanyJen]

Obviously, you may have a different experience. This is with a math-oriented kid. We used LOF as a supplement until Beg Alg. My ds completed Beg Alg and felt that there wasn't enough practice. So for Alg II and Geometry we added the Teaching Textbooks book (not the CDs).

 

I know all topics are covered. I felt Fred helped my dc understand the concepts right away, but that there is not as much time spent finding how one might implement those skills or how they relate to other concepts. By adding in another curric I felt that these connections were made and gave him a very solid understanding.

 

We are back to Fred alone for Trig. He's almost done we'll see how it goes.

 

 

For beginning algebra, did you use the Home Companion, or if you felt the need for more practice, the Zillions of Problems books? ZoP is relatively.

 

 

[Spetzi]

We used the Home Companion. ZoP was not out yet.

[allison.ls]

Thank you so much for the replies! I think we will test out the Pre-Algebra book but I will also order AOPS. She is only in 2nd grade technically so I think we have time to maybe do LOF first and then we can do AOPS afterwards. I try to limit LOF to 2 chapters a day as well. She could just fly right through them. I am just happy that I have found something that she doesn't deem boring.

[NittanyJen]

So Jen, you think a kid can still pick up Beg Alg even if they skip PreA w/ Econ? She'll be doing lots of other PreA stuff, so I assume the answer is yes, but it's reassuring to realize I'm not the first to contemplate giving this book a pass!

 

BTW, I always enjoy your explanations about how your son uses & enjoys LOF! We're using it a bit differently, as review and application of concepts taught directly using MM (so far), and that works well for us. I always enjoy reading how people use the same materials differently.

 

Rose, yes, I do think the Economics book could be skipped. It was not even an original part of the series, but added in later, particularly if you are using other materials as well.

 

I think Fred could be used successfully many different ways; the only one that kills me is when I read of people who let their kid speed through it and also claim it was light on math/explanations. I have said elsewhere, I could read the best math book in the world in a week and get nothing much out of it by reading it that fast.

[kohlby]

About AoPS, it takes a certain type of student and a certain type of maturity to be able to handle it. My oldest did Pre-Alg in 3rd grade and I hadn't known about AoPS then so we were in a different curriculum. He did Alg I AoPS in 4th grade though. It went well but there was an adjustment period. I really don't think he would have had the maturity for AoPS in 3rd grade for Pre-Alg. With a second grader, the chances are even smaller. So, based on her age, I'd do LoF Pre-Alg first. Our plan is to use LoF as the main text for our second child soon. She started with MUS and will switch to just LoF once she finishes MUS Delta, their 4th level. I figure I can add in more problems for practice if needed.