Physical Science or Physics for senior

[Miss Marple]

I'm planning my youngest son's senior year (YIPEE!). He has been dual enrolled at our local 4 year university in his junior year taking a total of 19 hours so far. So far he has a 4.0. In 8th grade he took my Conceptual Physics course at our co-op. He did far better than his older counterparts. But since he was in 8th, I won't be putting that grade on his transcript. He did Chemistry (BJU) in 9th and we cobbled together an Astronomy course for 10th for .5 credit (we used part of the fall of 10th grade to finish Chemistry because I changed curriculum at the semester break because I didn't like the chemistry we were using so we started from the beginning at the first of the spring semester). This spring he is taking Biology at the university. It includes a lab. So I really need to add a solid science to his senior year. I prefer physics, but at this point this fella won't be coming back home for lessons from me. He is soaring at the university and is impressing all his older friends. He is taking classes with his co-workers (they work at the rec. center) and they praise him for his abilities. IOW, coming home to mom will totally deflate his ego :p and honestly, I'm enjoying just being 'supervisor' these days :).

 

I cannot have him dual enroll in the physics at the university. It is a tough course that requires calculus - which he won't have until spring semester. But General Physical Sciences (with lab) is offered and it looks like it is mostly physics and chemistry. He has never had a "general science" class per se. He wants to take an Intro to Nutrition course in the fall semester with a friend and I'm not opposed to that because he is getting all sorts of stupid health advice off of various online websites (and in his opinion, I am not qualified to counter any of the stupid advice :) ). The other option I have is to have him do physics at home using a dvd/online course (Derek Owens, DIVE, etc.).

 

So I guess my question is this: would it look better to have the General Physical Science class at university or a true physics class done at home on his transcript?

 

Science:

8th: Conceptual Physics (Hewitt) - not on transcript

9th: Chemistry (BJU)

10th: Astronomy (1/2 credit)

11th: Biology (dual enrolled)

12: Physical Science at university or physics at home

and

Introduction to nutrition

[regentrude]

Are you sure that the university does not also have an algebra/trig based College Physics course for the majors who do not require a calculus based class?

 

I would lean towards physics at home - or via online course, or enrolled at another institution.

I would view a "Physical science" course at the university as a step down from both the conceptual physics and chemistry he already took, and I am wondering what their target audience would be. If he is excelling at university, he would benefit from being in a class with strong students, and not with those who take the lowest level science class to fulfill the requirement.

[Miss Marple]

Are you sure that the university does not also have an algebra/trig based College Physics course for the majors who do not require a calculus based class?

 

I would lean towards physics at home. I would view a "Physical science" course at the university as a step down from both the conceptual physics and chemistry he already took, and I am wondering what their target audience would be.

 

I was wondering about that as well (about it being a step down). This is a small regional 4 year university and they only have a few offerings in math/sciences. This school is known regionally for their nursing program (2 year RN) so they tend to focus their maths and sciences around that. They offer one course in physics(engineering) at one time with only one professor (no choice at all). The same for calculus. The General Physical Science has an ACT requirement of a 19. His last ACT science score was a 27.

 

I have often wondered how the admissions folks look at the transcripts of homeschoolers regarding the types of courses. None have asked what the boys have used at home for various sciences, but they know the content of any course that is taken as a dual enrolled student. I guess I wonder if they assume that the course taught at home might be inferior simply because it was taught at home.

[regentrude]

I was wondering about that as well (about it being a step down). This is a small regional 4 year university and they only have a few offerings in math/sciences. This school is known regionally for their nursing program (2 year RN) so they tend to focus their maths and sciences around that. They offer one course in physics(engineering) at one time with only one professor (no choice at all). The same for calculus. The General Physical Science has an ACT requirement of a 19. His last ACT science score was a 27.

 

I have often wondered how the admissions folks look at the transcripts of homeschoolers regarding the types of courses. None have asked what the boys have used at home for various sciences, but they know the content of any course that is taken as a dual enrolled student. I guess I wonder if they assume that the course taught at home might be inferior simply because it was taught at home.

 

 

I do not know an answer to your bolded question, but I would assume that the admissions people know that "General Physical Science" in whatever form is less rigorous than "Physics".

 

My biggest concern, however, would be what your son is getting out of the class. An ACT of 19 is terribly low. Chances are that this class will not be interesting to him for two reasons: he already had conceptual physics AND chemistry, and he will most likely be surrounded by students who are not actually interested in science but take this course because it is a requirement. The instructor will have designed the course to target this demographic - not a motivated, strong high school age student.

 

I see the difference in level and in student engagement between the classes I teach: physics for physics majors, for engineers, for life science majors. Students from each group approach the course with a different motivation, brings different views and attitudes, and requires the instructor to adjust material, level, and expectations.

[Miss Marple]

 

My biggest concern, however, would be what your son is getting out of the class. An ACT of 19 is terribly low. Chances are that this class will not be interesting to him for two reasons: he already had conceptual physics AND chemistry, and he will most likely be surrounded by students who are not actually interested in science but take this course because it is a requirement. The instructor will have designed the course to target this demographic - not a motivated, strong high school age student.

 

 

 

This is something I had not considered. Thank you for pointing it out. Both my younger boys have encountered a lack of enthusiasm and even apathy in some of the classes they have taken. And I think it affects their own perception of the class as well. Definitely something to consider.

 

I've been searching the tetables (transfer equivalency tables) for our state university and this regional university. The physics at the regional will transfer as an equivalent physics for life science majors NOT engineering as I had assumed based on the description. I think I need to talk with the professor. I've found the online descriptions are often misleading and/or lacking pertinent information. This particular son can do just about anything he sets his mind to do and he has an extremely competitive personality, so he might just do fine if calculus can be a co-requisite.

 

Thanks for the perspective. It's very helpful.

[Miss Marple]

I think he'd be bored to tears in the phys sci class.

 

I think you're probably right. I need to talk with the professor for physics...had to do that for a math class once as well. Online descriptions and reality are often two different things :p

[katilac]

 

I think you're probably right. I need to talk with the professor for physics...had to do that for a math class once as well. Online descriptions and reality are often two different things :p

 

 

Could your son do that, with a bit of pre-coaching and a list of questions? He's a rising senior, he's not new there, and it would be great practice for when he is off to university on his own.

[Miss Marple]

 

Could your son do that, with a bit of pre-coaching and a list of questions? He's a rising senior, he's not new there, and it would be great practice for when he is off to university on his own.

 

 

LOL! Well, I haven't yet had a just turned 17 year old son who was very good with details...except where it related to something *he* was thoroughly interested in. I think this will just be an email communication...since I have to sign off as his counselor, I'll probably just send the email - or maybe I'll help ds create the email on his college account...hmmm...

 

The youngest still gives me grunts and mumbles, but I console myself with the knowledge that my oldest has turned into quite a respectable communicator. He sent me a copy of an email he wrote the other day (to his supervisor) and wanted me to see if it sounded whiny (to be considered 'whiny' is a fella's worst nightmare). I was shocked and awed that he communicated so well...definitely an improvement from his late teens.

[regentrude]

 

LOL! Well, I haven't yet had a just turned 17 year old son who was very good with details...except where it related to something *he* was thoroughly interested in. I think this will just be an email communication...since I have to sign off as his counselor, I'll probably just send the email - or maybe I'll help ds create the email on his college account...hmmm...

 

 

I suggest the bolded.

Ever since DD started taking college classes, I had her write all emails to her instructors herself. The first few times I asked her to show me the email before sending it, and I made a few suggestions, but now she has long since been on her own with that.

I consider this an important skill and something many students are lacking. You would not believe what kind of emails I get, and how irritating it is to deal with them. I think it is excellent practice - help him write the email.

[shadanjem]

Out of curiosity (since we are just approaching this same issues), why NOT include the Hewitt Conceptual Physics on the transcript?

[Miss Marple]

Out of curiosity (since we are just approaching this same issues), why NOT include the Hewitt Conceptual Physics on the transcript?

 

All of the universities my boys have looked at have asked for the courses the student has completed in the past 4 years - they specifically ask for 9-12th. I know others might not have a problem putting it on the transcript, but I didn't feel the need to do it because I felt he really needed to have 4 years of sciences in his high school years even if he took high school level sciences earlier, and because I would be being dishonest to put it on an application/transcript that indicated they only wanted courses completed in 9-12th. He's an excellent student so we weren't trying to just do the minimum in science. And even though I couldn't put it on the transcript, it was an excellent preparatory course for his other high school sciences.